Mishael Posted April 20, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/04/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, OneGodBeliever said: So do Catholics and protestants but there is only one truth, both can't be right. So leave Shias to us and let's continue our discussion. It's strictly forbidden to makes images of God in bible which Catholics do. What they can do or cannot is between you and the catholic Moses was commanded by God to make images of the Cherubim, we are strictly forbidden to make graven images which is when I think the image has some divine power of its own. Protestants and Catholics all have the same trinity only difference comes in traditions and understanding of the faith and interpretation of the Bible, with Sunnis and Shias you cannot even agree on how Tawheen works or wheather Allah is above his throne or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGodBeliever Posted April 20, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/18/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mishael said: Moses was commanded by God to make images of the Cherubim, we are strictly forbidden to make graven images which is when I think the image has some divine power of its own. Protestants and Catholics all have the same trinity only difference comes in traditions and understanding of the faith and interpretation of the Bible, with Sunnis and Shias you cannot even agree on how Tawheen works or wheather Allah is above his throne or not. That's dishonest of you to say we have difference in tradition.... Well whether to make statue of Jesus or not is not tradition. So let's keep our debate between shais and us and you concentrate on Catholics. It's pointless to discuss as I will again point out your difference from Catholics if you again bring up Shias. Our rule is simple. Whoever worships or prays to other than God is disbeliever. That includes Ali or Jesus. If someone does, he is a disbeliever for me. A Muslim name does not negate the rule same way as not accepting Jesus as saviour and still saying I'm Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeTwo Posted April 20, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 58 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/13/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2018 43 minutes ago, OneGodBeliever said: The worship of Ali means they call for Ali's help instead of Allah. Shia says so because they see Ali as a mediator. They think that Ali is closer to Allah than common people and will listen to him and his prayer early than them. In another word, they are seeking help from Allah through Ali. It is like saying *Ya Ali pray to Allah for us. * So basically they do not actually pray to Ali but Allah. https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Shias-say-Ya-Ali-Madad-Oh-Ali-Help-Shouldnt-they-be-praying-to-God-or-asking-from-him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishael Posted April 20, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/04/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, OneGodBeliever said: That's dishonest of you to say we have difference in tradition.... Well whether to make statue of Jesus or not is not tradition. So let's keep our debate between shais and us and you concentrate on Catholics. It's pointless to discuss as I will again point out your difference from Catholics if you again bring up Shias. Our rule is simple. Whoever worships or prays to other than God is disbeliever. That includes Ali or Jesus. If someone does, he is a disbeliever for me. A Muslim name does not negate the rule same way as not accepting Jesus as saviour and still saying I'm Christian They still pray to Allah they just ask Ali to pray for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGodBeliever Posted April 20, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/18/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, GeorgeTwo said: Shia says so because they see Ali as a mediator. They think that Ali is closer to Allah than common people and will listen to him and his prayer early than them. In another word, they are seeking help from Allah through Ali. It is like saying *Ya Ali pray to Allah for us. * So basically they do not actually pray to Ali but Allah. https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Shias-say-Ya-Ali-Madad-Oh-Ali-Help-Shouldnt-they-be-praying-to-God-or-asking-from-him I cannot explain Tawheed to you as you don't know what is it properly. We are only allowed to ask righteous people who are alive to ask God for our forgiveness or other needs not dead. Dead don't intercede for us. You may differ but please don't tell what Muslims must believe because it will be waste of time & energy. As I said, let's concentrate on PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGodBeliever Posted April 20, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/18/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, Mishael said: They still pray to Allah they just ask Ali to pray for them. Mainstream Muslims don't believe dead intercede for us. Don't get me started on what Catholics differ from Protestants because i don't want to interfere in your differences. I'm very well aware on major differences. I think enough has been discussed. Hope to see you in any other topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishael Posted April 20, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/04/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2018 34 minutes ago, OneGodBeliever said: Mainstream Muslims don't believe dead intercede for us. Don't get me started on what Catholics differ from Protestants because i don't want to interfere in your differences. I'm very well aware on major differences. I think enough has been discussed. Hope to see you in any other topic. There's no such thing as mainstream Muslims, Sunnis making the majority doesn't mean mainstream Muslims don't believe the dead intercede, I've seen plenty of Sufis who are Sunni also believe in tawasul and intercession, so it's not unique to Shias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeTwo Posted April 20, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 58 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/13/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2018 51 minutes ago, OneGodBeliever said: I cannot explain Tawheed to you as you don't know what is it properly. We are only allowed to ask righteous people who are alive to ask God for our forgiveness or other needs not dead. Dead don't intercede for us. You may differ but please don't tell what Muslims must believe because it will be waste of time & energy. As I said, let's concentrate on PM I know what Tawheed means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGodBeliever Posted April 20, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/18/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2018 28 minutes ago, Mishael said: There's no such thing as mainstream Muslims, Sunnis making the majority doesn't mean mainstream Muslims don't believe the dead intercede, I've seen plenty of Sufis who are Sunni also believe in tawasul and intercession, so it's not unique to Shias. Well I believe my opinion is correct like I believe my religion is correct. Happy to differ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishael Posted April 20, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/04/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2018 30 minutes ago, OneGodBeliever said: Well I believe my opinion is correct like I believe my religion is correct. Happy to differ Opinion isn't a fact, it's a fact Islam's own history betrays it, and this a fact that Muslims cannot reconcile the concept of Tawhid with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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