Dan_79 Posted May 1, 2018 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 301 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/16/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/11/1979 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) I have been visiting this forum now for a short while. I have read many very great posts and am very gratful to everyone who has taken the time to answer or correct me in my knowledge of scripture. Some will notice I keep stumbling on one term or phrase that keeps popping up on this forum and it is trying to define the term "Jew". "Jesus was a Jew" "Paul was a Jew" ...."was a Jew also" The word Jew has become synonymous in the English language to mean a multitude of things. I am not alone in this thought either. Many non ecclesiastical dictionaries approach this word with a whole host of meanings and either intentionally or not intermingle or give multiple meanings to this word. Is it correct to call an Israelite a Jew? Or a Jew an Israelite? What is a "Jew"? A Judean (someone who inhabited a land mass in the bible called Judea) ? An Israelite who is from the seed of Jacob? A biblical Character mentioned in the language called Hebrew? A Hebrew? An adherent of the religion of Judaism (or someone who observes the teachings of the Talmud)? A Judahite (someone from the tribe of Judah) ? Or does the term "Jew" simply mean all of the above in every instance? Example: If you would not call a Gorilla a primate, or a Chimpanzee a primate, where either instance required clarification because they are both primates, then what is the purpose of distinction if not for clarity? A Vegetable soup will have many combinations that fall under this term.... So using vegetable soup to determine Leeks and Carrots isnt the same as Potato and Leek... Why am I so confused over such a simple biblical term? Edited May 1, 2018 by Dan_79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_79 Posted May 1, 2018 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 301 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/16/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/11/1979 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) I know your not suggesting anything here but for polite respectful discussion... Can you help me answer the question (I don't know Hitler or what his thoughts were personally or like what I have read about him so would rather not immediately try to attach my genuine concern to that of a genocidal world event). Can anyone else help? Edited May 1, 2018 by Dan_79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_79 Posted May 1, 2018 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 301 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/16/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/11/1979 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, Yowm said: That's how I generally use it, scripture uses it in various ways, so it should be explained how one is using it at the time. Is it correct to use any other term as to what it should mean at that time? I find the generalization is what is causing the confusion for me personally. Example: If we are discussing Paul and you mention he is a "Jew" but you mean by the context that it means descendant of Jacob is it not better to say "Paul the Israelite" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted May 1, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,058 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 1,031 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) ‘Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite; ... (Est 2:5) Hello Dan_79, The verse above is the first usage of the word that I could find, and in the margin of my Bible, in relation to this, it ways, 'a certain Jew' = a man (Heb. 'ish'), a Jew. The contrast between Judah and Israel was lost in a strange land; and, as Nebuchadnezzar's campaign was against Judah, so 'Jew' became the name used by Gentiles. Hope this is of help to you. In Christ Jesus Chris Edited May 1, 2018 by Christine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted May 1, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Dan_79 said: I have been visiting this forum now for a short while. I have read many very great posts and am very gratful to everyone who has taken the time to answer or correct me in my knowledge of scripture. Some will notice I keep stumbling on one term or phrase that keeps popping up on this forum and it is trying to define the term "Jew". "Jesus was a Jew" "Paul was a Jew" ...."was a Jew also" The word Jew has become synonymous in the English language to mean a multitude of things. I am not alone in this thought either. Many non ecclesiastical dictionaries approach this word with a whole host of meanings and either intentionally or not intermingle or give multiple meanings to this word. Is it correct to call an Israelite a Jew? Or a Jew an Israelite? What is a "Jew"? A Judean (someone who inhabited a land mass in the bible called Judea) ? An Israelite who is from the seed of Jacob? A biblical Character mentioned in the language called Hebrew? A Hebrew? An adherent of the religion of Judaism (or someone who observes the teachings of the Talmud)? A Judahite (someone from the tribe of Judah) ? Or does the term "Jew" simply mean all of the above in every instance? Example: If you would not call a Gorilla a primate, or a Chimpanzee a primate, where either instance required clarification because they are both primates, then what is the purpose of distinction if not for clarity? A Vegetable soup will have many combinations that fall under this term.... So using vegetable soup to determine Leeks and Carrots isnt the same as Potato and Leek... Why am I so confused over such a simple biblical term? As far as i know the term Jew came as a descriptor of people who where native citizens of the kingdom of Judea.. Judah is one of the 12 tribes of Israel.. The people of the 12 tribes when they left Egypt where known as Hebrews.. During the history of the land called Israel the Kingdom split and the two kingdoms became Israel 10 tribes and Judea two tribes.. I think the tribes Judah and Benjamin ( being much smaller ) populated the kingdom of Judea and also some of the tribe of Levi because the tribe of Levi where the tribe responsible for being priests in the Temple in Jerusalem and seeing that Jerusalem was in the kingdom of Judea then some Levi tribes people stayed there.. Since the majority of the population where of the tribe of Judah then the kingdom became known as Judea and thus the people came to be known as Jews.. Modern day Jews are people who claim to be genetic descendants of Israel who was the father of 12 sons who's descendants became the 12 tribes.. While there is a Jewish religion.. Most modern day Jewish people are secular / atheists.. Well that's my take on the term Jew.. I am sure others will be quick to correct me on anything i have messed up on.. Edited May 1, 2018 by Adstar 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_79 Posted May 1, 2018 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 301 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/16/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/11/1979 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, Christine said: ‘Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite; ... (Est 2:5) Hello Dan_79, The verse above is the first usage of the word that I could find, and in the margin of my Bible, in relation to this, it ways, 'a certain Jew' = a man (Heb. 'ish'), a Jew. The contrast between Judah and Israel was lost in a strange land; and, as Nebuchadnezzar's campaign was against Judah, so 'Jew' became the name used by Gentiles. Hope this is of help to you. In Christ Jesus Chris Hi Christine. Yes it is a help. As the first use of the word "Jew" is given to mean "Judahite" (from the tribe of Judah), this shows it's original usage. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_79 Posted May 1, 2018 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 301 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/16/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/11/1979 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Yowm said: Paul called Peter a Jew (to differentiate between a gentle) Galatians 2:14 NKJV [14] But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? So we at least have another use here that compares differently to the first usage of the word. Is the word "Jew" meaning Israelites in Gal 2:14 ? Edited May 1, 2018 by Dan_79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_79 Posted May 1, 2018 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 301 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/16/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/11/1979 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Adstar said: As far as i know the term Jew came as a descriptor of people who where native citizens of the kingdom of Judea.. Judah is one of the 12 tribes of Israel.. The people of the 12 tribes when they left Egypt where known as Hebrews.. During the history of the land called Israel the Kingdom split and the two kingdoms became Israel 10 tribes and Judea I think the tribes Judah and Benjamin ( being much smaller ) and also some of the tribe of Levi because the tribe of Levi where the tribe responsible for being priests in the Temple in Jerusalem and seeing that Jerusalem was in the kingdom of Judea then some Levi tribes people stayed there.. Since the majority of the population where of the tribe of Judah then the kingdom became known as Judea and thus the people came to be known as Jews.. Modern day Jews are people who claim to be genetic descendants of Israel who was the father of 12 sons who's descendants became the 12 tribes.. While there is a Jewish religion.. Most modern day Jewish people are secular / atheists.. Well that's my take on the term Jew.. I am sure others will be quick to correct me on anything i have messed up on.. Hi Adstar. Yes. Modern "Jews" follow the talmud which is not the same as Christianity (hence Judeo-Christianity is oxymoronic) and the jewish encyclopedia of 1925 states that "edom is in modern jewry" so to use "that" rendering of the word "Jew" would not count as a reference to meaning Israelite (descendant of Jacob). The beginings of confusion showing.... Edited May 1, 2018 by Dan_79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted May 1, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Dan_79 said: Yes. Modern "Jews" follow the talmud and the jewish encyclopedia of 1925 states that "edom is in modern jewry" so to use "that" redering of the word "Jew" would not count as a reference to meaning Israelite (descendant of Jacob). 6 minutes ago, Dan_79 said: Yes. Modern "Jews" follow the talmud and the jewish encyclopedia of 1925 states that "edom is in modern jewry" so to use "that" redering of the word "Jew" would not count as a reference to meaning Israelite (descendant of Jacob). Many Jews are not religious in any way Torah or tulmud or zohar they reject them all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_79 Posted May 1, 2018 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 301 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/16/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/11/1979 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Adstar said: Many Jews are not religious in any way Torah or tulmud or zohar they reject them all.. Ok so please correct me if I am wrong.. "Atheist" can now be added to the list of definitions for the term "Jew" ? Edited May 1, 2018 by Dan_79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts