His son Posted February 2, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 764 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2004 I was about 5 seconds away from committing suicide (self-murder). I know fully well that even though I was saved when I was young, I would not be allowed to enter heaven if I had. " I know fully well that even though I was saved when I was young, I would not be allowed to enter heaven if I had." I guess if you had, then it would mean that you were not saved when you were young then huh? This is a bad judgment call on your part, that you are not qualified to make. There are two who know whether or not endure was saved. That is God, and ednure. I too almost commited suicide after I got saved, I know both that I was saved and that I could have pulled that trigger. I know a Pastor who had been saved with the evidence as written in Mark's 16th chapter who committed suicide. So you need to take yourself out of that judgment seat, and let Christ take that place. I also know that if I had pulled that trigger I would have been lost forever. God has given us freewill to choose, and we have got to continue making the right choices to we finish the race, couquer or flesh, stay faithful unto salvation. To say that one who does not finish the race never started is not Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 2, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 265 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2004 " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papasangel Posted February 3, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,513 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 39 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/19/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/27/1959 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Wow this is another one of those "touchy" subjects that each has a differing opinion on. We cannot judge someone who takes their life. Unless we have walke in their shoes we cannot possible know what their thoughts were or even if they were rational thoughts. Depression is caused by many things, but usually it is a chemical imbalance in the brain. True sometimes it can be helped, sometimes it cannot. A person who is desperate enough to take themselves out of the picture is someone who probabally was reaching out for help through their actions beforehand. No one picked up that help was needed and it increases the depressed person's view that no one really cares. Can we save someone from killing themselves? In most cases yes because when they kill themselves it is usually in the "heat of the moment". But we cannot save them all physically. I do not believe that someone who commits suicide will be denied by Jesus. I believe that God understands that we are not culpable when we become severely depressed and therefore will make a special consideration. Unless you have experienced depression you have NO idea what is going on in someones head who is. Even then unless you have had the same exact circumstances there is no way for you to have an inkling of what that person is going through. So we need to reach out to those who feel unloved, unwanted and condemmed to their own private Hades. You can make a difference no matter how small that may help that person choose life instead of death. You may even watch the birth of a new Christian in the process. Anyway just a few of my ramblings. I just thought I would put in a penny'sworth because I too suffered from severe depression once and thought about ending it all. I guess you can tell which decision I made.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure4salvation Posted February 3, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 520 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/12/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1974 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I have asked this many times and it has gone completely ignored. How can a doctrine (OSAS) be true considering nobody taught it for 1,500 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted February 3, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 I have asked this many times and it has gone completely ignored. How can a doctrine (OSAS) be true considering nobody taught it for 1,500 years? Well....how do you know this? That's a loooong time! Actually the scriptures have taught OSAS from the beginning. You say "nobody"....I say the One....our Saviour Jesus Christ! It is true , Godly :il: to save a sinner to the uttermost, to give eternal life where it is not deserved on merit of acts or works....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure4salvation Posted February 3, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 520 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/12/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/07/1974 Share Posted February 3, 2004 Philippians 4:3 has a reference to a person named Clement. He wrote a few letters that may have made up part of the original texts that were to be selected from to complete the Bible. Here are two quotes from him: "On account of his hospitality and godliness, Lot was saved out of Sodom when all the country round was punished by means of fire and brimstone, the Lord thus making it manifest that He does not forsake those that hope in Him, but gives up such as depart from Him to punishment and torture. For Lot's wife, who went forth with him, being of a different mind from himself and not continuing in agreement with him [as to the command which had been given them], was made an example of, so as to be a pillar of salt unto this day. This was done that all might know that those who are of a double mind, and who distrust the power of God, bring down judgment on themselves and become a sign to all succeeding generations." (First Epistle Of Clement To The Corinthians, Chapter 11) "Let us, then not only call Him Lord, for that will not save us. For He saith, 'Not everyone that saith to Me, Lord, Lord, shall be saved, but he that worketh righteousness.' Wherefore, brethren, let us confess Him by our works, by loving one another, by not committing adultery, or speaking evil of one another, or cherishing envy, but being continent, compassionate, and good. We ought also to sympathize with one another, and not be avaricious. By such works let us confess Him, and not by those that are of an opposite kind. And it is not fitting that we should fear men, but rather God. For this reason, if we should do such wicked things, the Lord hath said, 'Even though ye were gathered together to Me in My very bosom, yet if ye were not to keep My commandments, I would cast you off, and say unto you, 'Depart from Me; I know you not whence ye are, ye workers of iniquity.''" (2 Epistle of Clement, Chapter 4) link These two passages are complete and irrefutable proofs that OSAS was not the original teaching handed down by Paul and the other apostles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His son Posted February 3, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 764 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3, 2004 Quote: Read your own post!. You say you were saved and that you also knew if you pulled the trigger you would be lost forever. It's a simple concept! Those that die lost are not saved!. It's a simple deduction! No matter how often they say they are saved, or for whatever reason's they give believing they were saved, if they die lost, they are LOST! . Thats not a bad judgement call, thats the truth!! . Saved means your not lost. Get it? And once again, you hastily jump to a conclusion that is in error, when you take it upon yourself to say that I am in the judgement seat. Saved is a process that requires us to make the right choices every step along that narrow way that leads to the straight gate. That was a bad judgment call, and this post is another. It's not that I am in error in reporting what your words are. I have no doubt in my mind that I was saved and pretty well along in that salvation process, and like I said I also know that I could have pulled that trigger. My salvation will be complete when The Holy Spirit has put the mind of Christ in me and I am living like Christ while He was here, and then changed in a twinkling of an eye into His image as He is now when He returns. As to your assumption that if one is saved they can't be lost again, I would say to you that even life itself shows you the error of that statement. I have lived in the mountains where there are lots of evergreens, and underbrush, and have spent many hours out there in those forests. I have been lost in those woods, been saved, and then because of my freewill choices gotten lost again. God told the children of Israel that He would deliver them no more. Now if He wasn't going to deliver them anymore that would have to mean by anyones interpretation that they were saved before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 3, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 265 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3, 2004 Quote: Read your own post!. You say you were saved and that you also knew if you pulled the trigger you would be lost forever. It's a simple concept! Those that die lost are not saved!. It's a simple deduction! No matter how often they say they are saved, or for whatever reason's they give believing they were saved, if they die lost, they are LOST! . Thats not a bad judgement call, thats the truth!! . Saved means your not lost. Get it? And once again, you hastily jump to a conclusion that is in error, when you take it upon yourself to say that I am in the judgement seat. Saved is a process that requires us to make the right choices every step along that narrow way that leads to the straight gate. That was a bad judgment call, and this post is another. It's not that I am in error in reporting what your words are. I have no doubt in my mind that I was saved and pretty well along in that salvation process, and like I said I also know that I could have pulled that trigger. My salvation will be complete when The Holy Spirit has put the mind of Christ in me and I am living like Christ while He was here, and then changed in a twinkling of an eye into His image as He is now when He returns. As to your assumption that if one is saved they can't be lost again, I would say to you that even life itself shows you the error of that statement. I have lived in the mountains where there are lots of evergreens, and underbrush, and have spent many hours out there in those forests. I have been lost in those woods, been saved, and then because of my freewill choices gotten lost again. God told the children of Israel that He would deliver them no more. Now if He wasn't going to deliver them anymore that would have to mean by anyones interpretation that they were saved before. His son, Once again you use your personal experiences to confirm your beliefs. Using an analogy of being in the woods does not provide credibility to your statement. I too live in an area with a large wooded section. I could use the analogy that When I Knew where I was going, and knew how to get there, I never got lost. Its only when you have to stumble around in unfamiliar ground with no direction that you become lost. With Jesus providing the direction, and the Holy Spirit guiding each step of the way, it doesnt become an issue of where are you going, but when will you get there. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted February 4, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 4, 2004 So now I understand it. I am saved thru the blood of the Crucified One and hid in Him as His very Own child. And He assures me that He'll never leave me or forsake me. And I know He doesn't lie...."God is not a man that He should lie. So if I can be "re-lost", then, of course, Christ too would be "lost" since I'm in Him forever. Then, too, Christ would be found to be "a liar" in that He has said He'll always be with me! Then, too, I'd have to "forsake" being a genuine member of God's Forever Family; I'd have to have my family name changed to "one of satan's now - again"! I'm not absolutely perfect, so therefore the existence of one miscue or one wrong thot closes heaven's door again! I was IN, but now I'm OUT for the umpteenth time, yes? Hmmm. Thank You, Jesus, for Your everlasting salvation thru the blood of Calvary! O.S.T.R.T.R.T.R. kind folks should perk up. http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 4, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 265 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 4, 2004 So now I understand it. I am saved thru the blood of the Crucified One and hid in Him as His very Own child. And He assures me that He'll never leave me or forsake me. And I know He doesn't lie...."God is not a man that He should lie. So if I can be "re-lost", then, of course, Christ too would be "lost" since I'm in Him forever. Then, too, Christ would be found to be "a liar" in that He has said He'll always be with me! Then, too, I'd have to "forsake" being a genuine member of God's Forever Family; I'd have to have my family name changed to "one of satan's now - again"! I'm not absolutely perfect, so therefore the existence of one miscue or one wrong thot closes heaven's door again! I was IN, but now I'm OUT for the umpteenth time, yes? Hmmm. Thank You, Jesus, for Your everlasting salvation thru the blood of Calvary! O.S.T.R.T.R.T.R. kind folks should perk up. http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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