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Broken cisterns


Gideon

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@Gideon

It does seem to come down to this; 

If a person(believer) has a “personal relationship with Christ” and it is growing. In Gods time will that believer be brought into all truth. Who in the course of time, if that “personal relationship” continues to grow will get and abundant “ well done thou good and faithful servant”. 

The believer whos “personal relationship with Christ” is not growing (for whatever reason) is like an infant. Though the infant has a “relationship” with the mother is pretty much unaware of the relationship other than the very basics, food, clothing, diapers changed, etc.  Will that believer get an abundant welcome? He will get a welcome, as for “abundant” I have my doubts. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

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12 minutes ago, Not me said:

@Gideon

It does seem to come down to this; 

If a person(believer) has a “personal relationship with Christ” and it is growing. In Gods time will that believer be brought into all truth. Who in the course of time, if that “personal relationship” continues to grow will get and abundant “ well done thou good and faithful servant”. 

The believer who’s “personal relationship with Christ” is not growing (for whatever reason) is like an infant. Though the infant has a “relationship” with the mother is pretty much unaware of the relationship other than the very basics, food, clothing, diapers changed, etc.  Will that believer get an abundant welcome? He will get a welcome, as for “abundant” I have my doubts. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

Very well stated and very true. Thanks, my friend. 

Blessings, 

Gids

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@Gideon

       “Yes, forgiveness is important. But the reason it is so is that without it, we cannot come  back into tender, loving  fellowship with Him. Sadly, we have thought that the entirety of Christianity is just about forgiveness. It is not. That is simply the doorway back into living all day every day, in His presence.

After re-reading what you wrote, I stopped at this point and had to say this is soooo true. That intimate fellowship with God is what He’s after. That we could make this a reality in our lives. 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

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5 hours ago, Not me said:

@Gideon

       “Yes, forgiveness is important. But the reason it is so is that without it, we cannot come  back into tender, loving  fellowship with Him. Sadly, we have thought that the entirety of Christianity is just about forgiveness. It is not. That is simply the doorway back into living all day every day, in His presence.

After re-reading what you wrote, I stopped at this point and had to say this is soooo true. That intimate fellowship with God is what He’s after. That we could make this a reality in our lives. 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

I agree with Gideon's statement as well.  But I would like to respectfully point out that many have intimate relationships with God....they read the bible often, they pray a lot, they can evangelize, and even have spiritual gifts.....but they still err and believe false gospels.  I crossed paths with someone years back who sadly could be described as mystery Babylon personified.  She has a testimony, she did all those things and more, yet is spiritually and emotionally abusive and has influenced and led many very far astray.  I believe really that being restored into a relationship with God in Christ is much like what Gideon said, it is just the beginning and only part of what we are apprehending.  It's very deceptive to base everything on "relationship" because people can go very far off track and still maintain a relationship with Christ, without even knowing they are in terrible peril.  Even Satan had a relationship with God, since he was allowed to appear before His throne and make requests which the Lord granted. 

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7 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

I agree with Gideon's statement as well.  But I would like to respectfully point out that many have intimate relationships with God....they read the bible often, they pray a lot, they can evangelize, and even have spiritual gifts.....but they still err and believe false gospels.  I crossed paths with someone years back who sadly could be described as mystery Babylon personified.  She has a testimony, she did all those things and more, yet is spiritually and emotionally abusive and has influenced and led many very far astray.  I believe really that being restored into a relationship with God in Christ is much like what Gideon said, it is just the beginning and only part of what we are apprehending.  It's very deceptive to base everything on "relationship" because people can go very far off track and still maintain a relationship with Christ, without even knowing they are in terrible peril.  Even Satan had a relationship with God, since he was allowed to appear before His throne and make requests which the Lord granted. 

I think we should define what it means to have a “personal relationship with Christ”. 

What you have wrote Jesus says is going to happen. For He says, there are going to be people that have all things outwardly that a Christian should do. They know great scriptural knowledge. Read, preach and evangelize,  have memorized great portions of the Bible. Have fed the poor. And as according to them,  “have done miracles in His name.” It is to these individuals that Christ says He’s going to say “away with you for I never knew you”. For though they, for all outwardness,  have all that one would think that was required. Except they did not have that one thing that Jesus says is needful. Which was, and is,  revealed in the words “I never knew you”. Which is the one thing that is needful. That Christ “knows” you and you “know” Him. Which is exactly what is meant by  the term “a personal relationship with Christ”. For by definition of the words they mean no more or less than a husband and a wife would use the words. Only deeper and more intimate. For it is to this fellowship we as believers have been called. For it is to the degree that  ones personal relationship with Christ is growing,  it is to that degree can and will Christ be formed in the believer. 

Now I can’t speak about your acquaintance. For I don’t know her. But from what you have described,  she sounds like she had everything “except” a close personal intimate relationship with Christ. Which is the one thing that is needful to keep a believer from all error. For it is to that relationship/fellowship that all believers have been called to. Now it may be stated that she claimed to have a “personal relationship with Christ”. So the question would be how is one to judge another believer? According to scripture it is by their “fruits shall you know them”. And again “Christ should be written in their hearts that all men can read.” So the fruit of the Spirit should be evident in their lives. If not, it doesn’t mean their not Christians, just maybe not to grown up. 

But back to having a personal relationship with Christ. Each and every believer has a relationship with Christ for you cannot be a Christian without one. But it is totally up to the believer themselves how deep that relationship goes. For this is revealed in the words “seek and you will find, ask and the door will be opened”. So it’s  up to the believer to seek and ask. It is to their own desire after God will they be filled. 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

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6 hours ago, Not me said:

I think we should define what it means to have a “personal relationship with Christ”. 

What you have wrote Jesus says is going to happen. For He says, there are going to be people that have all things outwardly that a Christian should do. They know great scriptural knowledge. Read, preach and evangelize,  have memorized great portions of the Bible. Have fed the poor. And as according to them,  “have done miracles in His name.” It is to these individuals that Christ says He’s going to say “away with you for I never knew you”. For though they, for all outwardness,  have all that one would think that was required. Except they did not have that one thing that Jesus says is needful. Which was, and is,  revealed in the words “I never knew you”. Which is the one thing that is needful. That Christ “knows” you and you “know” Him. Which is exactly what is meant by  the term “a personal relationship with Christ”. For by definition of the words they mean no more or less than a husband and a wife would use the words. Only deeper and more intimate. For it is to this fellowship we as believers have been called. For it is to the degree that  ones personal relationship with Christ is growing,  it is to that degree can and will Christ be formed in the believer. 

Now I can’t speak about your acquaintance. For I don’t know her. But from what you have described,  she sounds like she had everything “except” a close personal intimate relationship with Christ. Which is the one thing that is needful to keep a believer from all error. For it is to that relationship/fellowship that all believers have been called to. Now it may be stated that she claimed to have a “personal relationship with Christ”. So the question would be how is one to judge another believer? According to scripture it is by their “fruits shall you know them”. And again “Christ should be written in their hearts that all men can read.” So the fruit of the Spirit should be evident in their lives. If not, it doesn’t mean their not Christians, just maybe not to grown up. 

But back to having a personal relationship with Christ. Each and every believer has a relationship with Christ for you cannot be a Christian without one. But it is totally up to the believer themselves how deep that relationship goes. For this is revealed in the words “seek and you will find, ask and the door will be opened”. So it’s  up to the believer to seek and ask. It is to their own desire after God will they be filled. 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

Brother, thank you for your wisdom. It is much appreciated. 

I had mentioned earlier in this post that correct doctrine should bring forth a correct relationship. But the fact that we see such shallowness in our walks should tell us something must be amisss with our doctrine then. So..... what is it? 

You mentioned the sad truth that many will walk into judgment fully confident that they are about to receive a ‘well done’ from the Lord, only to be shocked to their core when they are told to depart from Him instead, for, as you pointed out, Jesus will say unto them that  He never knew them. Earlier in this situation, described in Matthew 7, Jesus said these sobering words.... and may they pierce through the hardness on our hearts.

”Not everyone who says unto me ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven.”

            Matthew 7:21

Ouch. No matter how we want to rip this out of our Bibles, we as the latter day church are going to have to face this fact. Correct doctrine...... real truth..... will bring about the relationship God wants us to have with Him, and that abiding in Him will cause us to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Ultimately, as we abide in Him, we are going to be changed into the very same image, from glory to glory. And part of that transformation will be revealed by the fact that we walk in victory over willful sin. Our doctrine will be proved correct by the fact we no longer walk in defeat, with hidden sins clinging to us, with hearts that still love darkness to one degree or another. And how do we know this? We simply need to read again the words of the Son of God. 

“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

           Matthew 7:23

This should hit us like a ton of bricks. The fact that it does not in many cases, should be alarming to us all the more. So where is that doctrinal “fly in the ointment”? Where have we erred in what we understand to be the gospel that has kept us earthbound, that has made having that deep, rich and joyful relationship with our creator almost impossible, and thus kept us bound still in Romans 7? Should it not bother us greatly to where, to where, like it did with Paul, even if we hate the sins we commit and the actions of our fleshly self,  we cannot get freed from them? Why is it, if we are truly children of God, and are told that we can do all things through Him that strengthens us, that we find ourselves like Paul once did, where to will was present with him.... he wanted to stop sinning...... but how to perform it, he found not? 

There is a reason, and it is correctable, but only when we finally hate the fact that we cannot get free from sin’s grip and that we must stop fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

Do not despair, dear friends, God has provided a way for that to happen, and in these last days, if we are desperate enough to cry out to Him like Paul did, realizing our very salvation may be on the line, God will..... WILL.... hear us and open our eyes to the truth hat will set us free indeed. 

I have said it before but it bears repeating. God did not birth His church in glorious power and freedom, only to have t o come rescues us as a religious organization, clinging to a grace that somehow is supposed to make our obedience a bonus but not truly necessary. No, guys, God is about to do that work in our days that if our eyes did not see it, we would not believe it. And what is that? He is about to show us the secret that has been hidden in plain sight from our understanding, the final doctrinal truth that allows us to soar like eagles and escape the grip of our Romans 7  walks. 

To be continued....

blessings, 

Gideon

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@Gideon

What you say is true. It is sin in the believers life that keeps the believers personal relationship with Christ at a minimum. For God and sin cannot dwell together. Just like order and disorder cannot dwell together. Nor light and darkness. Righteousness is what we as His people have been called to. Righteousness in the believers life manifested is what our salvation in Christ consists of. Righteousness really in real time being manifested. And as you have said so eloquently in the passed. By realizing the truth of our “deaths in Christ”. It is this truth alone that will set a man free from the works of the flesh. Knowing that all “works of the flesh” will not stand through the fire. Regardless of how “Christian” they may seem. If they were done out of “self”  they will not stand. Only those works that are done out of “Christ being formed in the believer” will stand through the fire. We are admonished to be careful how we build and what we use. Only Christ being formed in the believer will last. And only by feeding and growing ones personal relationship with Christ, can Christ be formed in our hearts and lives. For it comes down to this simple statement; 

If it’s me, it’s sin, if it’s Christ,  it’s not. 

Blessing to you my fellow laborer in Christ, Not me 

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7 hours ago, Not me said:

I think we should define what it means to have a “personal relationship with Christ”. 

What you have wrote Jesus says is going to happen. For He says, there are going to be people that have all things outwardly that a Christian should do. They know great scriptural knowledge. Read, preach and evangelize,  have memorized great portions of the Bible. Have fed the poor. And as according to them,  “have done miracles in His name.” It is to these individuals that Christ says He’s going to say “away with you for I never knew you”. For though they, for all outwardness,  have all that one would think that was required. Except they did not have that one thing that Jesus says is needful. Which was, and is,  revealed in the words “I never knew you”. Which is the one thing that is needful. That Christ “knows” you and you “know” Him. Which is exactly what is meant by  the term “a personal relationship with Christ”. For by definition of the words they mean no more or less than a husband and a wife would use the words. Only deeper and more intimate. For it is to this fellowship we as believers have been called. For it is to the degree that  ones personal relationship with Christ is growing,  it is to that degree can and will Christ be formed in the believer. 

Now I can’t speak about your acquaintance. For I don’t know her. But from what you have described,  she sounds like she had everything “except” a close personal intimate relationship with Christ. Which is the one thing that is needful to keep a believer from all error. For it is to that relationship/fellowship that all believers have been called to. Now it may be stated that she claimed to have a “personal relationship with Christ”. So the question would be how is one to judge another believer? According to scripture it is by their “fruits shall you know them”. And again “Christ should be written in their hearts that all men can read.” So the fruit of the Spirit should be evident in their lives. If not, it doesn’t mean their not Christians, just maybe not to grown up. 

But back to having a personal relationship with Christ. Each and every believer has a relationship with Christ for you cannot be a Christian without one. But it is totally up to the believer themselves how deep that relationship goes. For this is revealed in the words “seek and you will find, ask and the door will be opened”. So it’s  up to the believer to seek and ask. It is to their own desire after God will they be filled. 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

AMEN......that is the whole point......relationship with Christ does need to be defined according to the word of God, otherwise it is entirely subjective and becomes meaningless and leaves the door wide open for anyone to define.  This is the point...thank you!

It is possible for someone to be restored to Christ, ie, be born again and be restored to relationship with Him, and then either go astray or fall away entirely, or have some of both good and bad fruits.  As in the case of the person I mentioned who has a testimony of coming to know Christ, but went badly astray.  And if anyone has any error at any time, it could not be their relationship with Christ that taught them error or led them astray. 

(And as you mentioned a person can know Christ, but not allow Him to "know" them, ie, as David prayed, to search me and KNOW ME oh God and see if there be any wicked way in me.....allowing the Lord to search us and bring to our awareness what still remains that we need to repent of, in other words.  This is part of growing in Him.....it is often due to things that remain buried in our hearts that we are led astray....as the scripture says, to "let the lame be healed LEST THEY BE TURNED OUT OF THE WAY"....making our crooked paths straight, speaking of heart issues that we may not be aware of without the light of the Lord searching our hearts....cleansed and saved to the uttermost, that we can say with Jesus that Satan hath nothing in me.)

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51 minutes ago, Not me said:

@Gideon

What you say is true. It is sin in the believers life that keeps the believers personal relationship with Christ at a minimum. For God and sin cannot dwell together. Just like order and disorder cannot dwell together. Nor light and darkness. Righteousness is what we as His people have been called to. Righteousness in the believers life manifested is what our salvation in Christ consists of. Righteousness really in real time being manifested. And as you have said so eloquently in the passed. By realizing the truth of our “deaths in Christ”. It is this truth alone that will set a man free from the works of the flesh. Knowing that all “works of the flesh” will not stand through the fire. Regardless of how “Christian” they may seem. If they were done out of “self”  they will not stand. Only those works that are done out of “Christ being formed in the believer” will stand through the fire. We are admonished to be careful how we build and what we use. Only Christ being formed in the believer will last. And only by feeding and growing ones personal relationship with Christ, can Christ be formed in our hearts and lives. For it comes down to this simple statement; 

If it’s me it’s sin,  if it’s Christ it’s not. 

Blessing to you my fellow laborer in Christ, Not me 

Amen, I believe this is right.  The life of Moses shows us how at the first when he was awakened to his true "identity" and calling in the Lord, he started out well-intentioned but with his own works of the flesh....which brought about death.  It wasn't until after many years spent in the wilderness that his carnal nature had been put to death, that he was ready to serve out of weakness and not his own strength (flesh), and only then did the Lord send him to serve.  This is a picture of the corn of wheat of our lives buried in the ground and dying in order to be able to produce a crop....losing our life in order to find it.

Now, I would like to ask, where it was said...."By realizing the truth of our 'death in Christ'".  How are we to understand the role of repentance in this process....or what is our part in getting there?  Entering the rest of God has to do with ceasing firstly from our own works of sin, and then on a deeper level as we grow it REMAINS that we need to cease from ALL works of our flesh not just the bad but the "good" as well, as you are pointing out.

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13 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Amen, I believe this is right.  The life of Moses shows us how at the first when he was awakened to his true "identity" and calling in the Lord, he started out well-intentioned but with his own works of the flesh....which brought about death.  It wasn't until after many years spent in the wilderness that his carnal nature had been put to death, that he was ready to serve out of weakness and not his own strength (flesh), and only then did the Lord send him to serve.  This is a picture of the corn of wheat of our lives buried in the ground and dying in order to be able to produce a crop....losing our life in order to find it.

Now, I would like to ask, where it was said...."By realizing the truth of our 'death in Christ'".  How are we to understand the role of repentance in this process....or what is our part in getting there?  Entering the rest of God has to do with ceasing firstly from our own works of sin, and then on a deeper level as we grow it REMAINS that we need to cease from ALL works of our flesh not just the bad but the "good" as well, as you are pointing out.

This sort of dovetails in well with my ‘to be continued’ post. I hope you do not mind if share my thoughts.

We are instructed in scripture to struggle to enter into the rest. It makes no sense to our carnal minds. In my own experience at least, when I read that it was the pure in heart who would see God, I set about as a new believer to purify my heart, to walk in holiness, for we were also told that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Thirty eight years later, with a bag full of failures and frustrations later, and no closer to the walk I so longed for, I was worn out completely and out of answers. I had tried everything and yet still, sin had me and self still ultimately ruled the roost. 

One night now almost twelve years ago, I cried out to God and told Him that I could not walk the walk He asked o me. It was too high, too hard....impossible. And it was at that moment that God appeared to me in a divine visitation and He spoke..... and yes, audibly. And what did He say? 

“For this, my son, I am well pleased with you.

Say what?? I had tried for almost four decades to defeat the sexual lust that bound me tightly. I had tried with everything I knew to walk as an obedient child of God, but all to no avail. I had longed to feel close to God and walk in that deep personal relationship we are now discussing. I had hungered to feel like God was actually pleased with me, and never did that happen. And now? Now, when I was defeated, broken in spirit, out of answers, and confessing my inability to do what He asked of me? Now He tells me He is pleased with me? 

It made no sense..... at least until God continued to speak and what He said next explained everything. 

“I knew all along that you could not walk the walk I had for you, but you did not yet know it.”

Praise God for that little word ‘yet’. I finally knew it, for I had struggled for 38 years to walk the walk and had failed. I finally understood that unless I received a miracle, I was without hope. I had come to the point I had NO strength. I was finally ready to look away from myself and look to God for a miracle and He did not disappoint. I did not know it yet, but I was about ready to mount up with eagles wings. 

The Lord continued to speak.

” In all your trying, did you ever do what I instructed you to do through my servant Paul?

And when He said those words, He immediately took away the blinders from my spiritual eyes. I saw the answer I had sought and never before seen. And it was found in Romans chapter 6.

Here, Paul tells us that there are two truths we must know. 

1) We must know that when Christ died, so did we.... the old us. 

2) We must know that when Chris rose from the dead to newness of life, so did we.

 

But it was what he said next that had been hidden from my eyes. And what was that.... the secret that had eluded me all those years? 

“Therefore reckon yourself dead unto sin and alive unto God.”

    Romans 6:6

Suddenly, I saw it clearly, and understood. I had never done that. Ever. I had vowed to never sin. I had prayed for hours on end, I had memorized large portions of scripture.... even this one. I had fasted for up to 21 days. I had made resolutions, promises, turned over so many new leaves that my tree was leafless. But never had I simply obeyed that instruction. I had never reckoned that the old me was truly dead. 

So what did I do? I spoke. Out loud, Loudly our loud. Loud enough for all the demons in hell to hear me. Loud enough for all the angels in Heaven to hear. But mos importantly, loud enough for my own ears to hear TRUTH, for faith comes by hearing, amen? 

I confessed who I was in Christ, and who I no longer was. I confessed that I was a new creature in Christ and that the old me was dead and gone. I confessed that the sin of lust fed by pornography no longer bound me. I confessed that I could do all things now through Him who loved me. I confessed that it was no longer I that lived but Christ who now lived in me.... as my new man. And when I did, it was as if great iron door slowly swung open, revealing heaven within me. And it changed everything

I have shared my testimony before here and apologize if you had already read it. But it illustrates perfectly what you ask. You asked what part repentance has to do with walking in relationship with God. You asked what our part was in all this. The answer is that our part is to try as hard s we can to walk pleasing to God..... and fail. And when we finally come to Him broken of all self confidence, and with no strength, we are finally prepared to do the one thing He ask of us. He asks us to only believe. 

Our human nature does not like to admit weakness. We want to help God, but our old nature cannot please Him. As God tells us, nothing profits but a new man. We have to put on the new natures He has provided us, and we do all that, not by effort but by faith alone. When we finally come to the point that we HATE our weakness, and see our old nature is totally corrupt  and cry out to God for a miracle, He open our eyes to the fullness of grace and how it will actually change us. All He asks of us is to believe that we truly are no longer old natures people and have not been since the day we were saved. But it can never profit us until we appropriate it for ourselves by faith alone. 

Do you remember the scripture in Revelation 17? It talks about the saints in the last days walking as overcomers, not as the overcome. 

“”And they over came him (Satan) by the blood of the lamb AND the word of their testimony”. 

Glory to God, that is speaking about us. We have long possessed the blood of the lamb, and thankFod, it has covered us in all our sin, self and worldliness. But in these final days, the church has been destined to discover the secret that the early church walked in, that it is no longer us who live but Christ who now lives in us. 

Amazing days await....

blessings to all,

Gideon

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