Mark of the Beast

[CarolineS]

OK. This is supposed to be a serious thread. Looks like Sanctyfied has a lot to learn. I will try to help.

We know that God symbolizes His true, pure church as a pure woman and an apostate church as a harlot.

"I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman."

(See also 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:22, 23; and Rev. 19:7,8)

Rev. 12:1 "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head."

The sun represents Jesus, His gospel, and His righteousness. "The Lord God is a sun." Psalm 84:11. (See also Malachi 4:2) Without Jesus there is no salvation (Acts 4:12). More than anything else, Jesus wants His church to overflow tith His presence and glory.

The "moon under her feet" represents the sacrificial system of the Old Testament. As the moon reflects the light of the sun, so the sacrificial system was helpful spiritually only as it reflected light from the Messiah to come (Hebrews 10:1).

The "crown of twelve stars" represents the work of the 12 disciples, which crowned the early years of the New Testament church.

I hope this helps.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Sanctyfied]

Ok CorolineS

Who taught you this?

I never said I was right

I worked hard today. I'm little tired so be easy.

I can't seem to figure out why God would use symbols when that's all you see satan using. that how he confuses people.

Why would God do the same?

I see them as examples not symbols.

I've seen to many symbols through satanizim

I dont like symbols

so I say they are examples.

Edited June 1, 2005 by Sanctyfied

[Trust & Obey]

Okay, so then what does "right hand or forehead" symbolically represent? If it is symbolic, then everything in the prophecy must be symbolic.

I think the prophecy of the mark is too detailed and precise to be a symbolic prophecy. 50 years ago I may have thought differently. But, with technology where it is and the ability of a government to implement something exactly as described in the prophecy, I have to take it literally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are many words in Revelation and in Daniel that are symbolic. I am just thinking that the mark spoken of will not really be a mark on our body at all. I think that Satan is just using that idea as a distraction from the real issue involved.

The real issue is worship. Satan has tried to take God's place ever since he was kicked out of heaven. He wants all people on earth to worship him, not God.

No one who is righteous will ever give him the worship he craves. So the only way for him to be worshipped, is by force. He will try to force, deceive, trick people into worshipping him.

The Lord gave us a commandment regarding worship. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. It just makes sense that Satan would mess with the 4th commandment.

When Jesus was in the desert, Satan came and tempted Him. Jesus used the Word in dealing with Satan. Every word he spoke to Satan he quoted from the book of Deuteronomy. This book gives us the sermon that Moses gave to the Israeli people before he died.

Here are just some verses:

Therefore you shall dep every commandment which I cammand you today, that you may be strong,... Deut.11:8

Therefore you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to fear Him. Deut. 8:6

Beware that you do not forget the Lord your God by not keeping His commandments,...Deut. 8:11

Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

Deut. 11:18

Take out your Bible, go to Deuteronomy and mark all the verses that mention the word commandments,ways,law, covenant. It's really amazing.

I don't think we will be chipped, or marked, I think it will come down to keeping God's commandments.

Jesus states many times in scripture, If you love me, keep my commandments.

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Rev. 14:12.

In Christ,

CarolineS

.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Caroline, all of those passages in Deuteronomy are addressed to the children of Israel.

The Sabbath was a covenant between God and His people Israel.

Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Anyways, nobody is keeping the biblical sabbath today... NOBODY. Not Jews, not Seventh-Day Adventists... NOBODY. When is the last time somebody was put to death for NOT observing the Sabbath?

Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

We can't pick and choose the aspects of God's law that we are to follow. If we are going to say, "you must keep the Sabbath." Then that also means "we must put to death those that do NOT keep the Sabbath." You cannot divide the two.

Lastly, the Sabbath day rest was a figurative symbol of our rest in Jesus Christ:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The substance of the Sabbath is Jesus Christ. The Sabbath day rest was merely "a shadow of things to come." That "thing to come" has come, and it is Jesus.

Read this passage from Hebrews 4 and see that we enter rest by faith in Jesus. He is out Sabbath, and we rest in Him as we cease from our own labor and trust in His finished work on the cross. Amen!

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

[Sanctyfied]

Trust & Obey

Thanks for that scripture.

You have no idea how much I needed to read that.

[Trust & Obey]

Trust & Obey

Thanks for that  scripture.

You have no idea how much I needed to read that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Praise the Lord, Sanctyfied. God knows what we need just when we need it, eh?

[Sanctyfied]

AAAmen

I think sometimes I forget the Jesus is my resting place. I read, I pray, I Thank Him for everything. Sometime I seem to forget to rest In Him.

That scripture went straight to the heart.

Man, God is soooo Good

[CarolineS]

Okay, so then what does "right hand or forehead" symbolically represent? If it is symbolic, then everything in the prophecy must be symbolic.

I think the prophecy of the mark is too detailed and precise to be a symbolic prophecy. 50 years ago I may have thought differently. But, with technology where it is and the ability of a government to implement something exactly as described in the prophecy, I have to take it literally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are many words in Revelation and in Daniel that are symbolic. I am just thinking that the mark spoken of will not really be a mark on our body at all. I think that Satan is just using that idea as a distraction from the real issue involved.

The real issue is worship. Satan has tried to take God's place ever since he was kicked out of heaven. He wants all people on earth to worship him, not God.

No one who is righteous will ever give him the worship he craves. So the only way for him to be worshipped, is by force. He will try to force, deceive, trick people into worshipping him.

The Lord gave us a commandment regarding worship. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. It just makes sense that Satan would mess with the 4th commandment.

When Jesus was in the desert, Satan came and tempted Him. Jesus used the Word in dealing with Satan. Every word he spoke to Satan he quoted from the book of Deuteronomy. This book gives us the sermon that Moses gave to the Israeli people before he died.

Here are just some verses:

Therefore you shall dep every commandment which I cammand you today, that you may be strong,... Deut.11:8

Therefore you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to fear Him. Deut. 8:6

Beware that you do not forget the Lord your God by not keeping His commandments,...Deut. 8:11

Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

Deut. 11:18

Take out your Bible, go to Deuteronomy and mark all the verses that mention the word commandments,ways,law, covenant. It's really amazing.

I don't think we will be chipped, or marked, I think it will come down to keeping God's commandments.

Jesus states many times in scripture, If you love me, keep my commandments.

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Rev. 14:12.

In Christ,

CarolineS

.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Caroline, all of those passages in Deuteronomy are addressed to the children of Israel.

The Sabbath was a covenant between God and His people Israel.

Anyways, nobody is keeping the biblical sabbath today... NOBODY. Not Jews, not Seventh-Day Adventists... NOBODY. When is the last time somebody was put to death for NOT observing the Sabbath?

We can't pick and choose the aspects of God's law that we are to follow. If we are going to say, "you must keep the Sabbath." Then that also means "we must put to death those that do NOT keep the Sabbath." You cannot divide the two.

Lastly, the Sabbath day rest was a figurative symbol of our rest in Jesus Christ:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"The Sabbath was a covenant betwen God and His people Israel."

OK. I believe that when a person accepts Christ as his Savior, that person is grafted into spiritual Israel. We become spiritual Jews.

"And if you are Christ's, then you are Abrahams's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galations 3:29.

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outwad in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."

Romans 2:28-29.

I believe that Jews do keep the Sabbath and attend services on Saturday. And I know that Sevtenth-Day Adventists also keep the Sabbath.

Who says the Sabbath was a figurative symbol? As far as I know the fourth commandment, "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy," is not a symbol of any kind, but a commandment from God.

So are you saying we should keep only nine commandments, and the fourth commandment is only a figurative symbol?

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Sanctyfied]

so your saying that everything in the Bible is a symbol exept that one scripture?

lol

[nebula]

I can't seem to figure out why God would use symbols when  that's all you see satan using. that how he confuses people.

Why would God do the same?

I see them as examples not symbols.

I've seen to many symbols through satanizim

I dont like symbols

so I say they are examples.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh!

So that's what this is all about.

[JesusisGod2]

Okay, so then what does "right hand or forehead" symbolically represent? If it is symbolic, then everything in the prophecy must be symbolic.

I think the prophecy of the mark is too detailed and precise to be a symbolic prophecy. 50 years ago I may have thought differently. But, with technology where it is and the ability of a government to implement something exactly as described in the prophecy, I have to take it literally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are many words in Revelation and in Daniel that are symbolic. I am just thinking that the mark spoken of will not really be a mark on our body at all. I think that Satan is just using that idea as a distraction from the real issue involved.

The real issue is worship. Satan has tried to take God's place ever since he was kicked out of heaven. He wants all people on earth to worship him, not God.

No one who is righteous will ever give him the worship he craves. So the only way for him to be worshipped, is by force. He will try to force, deceive, trick people into worshipping him.

The Lord gave us a commandment regarding worship. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. It just makes sense that Satan would mess with the 4th commandment.

When Jesus was in the desert, Satan came and tempted Him. Jesus used the Word in dealing with Satan. Every word he spoke to Satan he quoted from the book of Deuteronomy. This book gives us the sermon that Moses gave to the Israeli people before he died.

Here are just some verses:

Therefore you shall dep every commandment which I cammand you today, that you may be strong,... Deut.11:8

Therefore you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to fear Him. Deut. 8:6

Beware that you do not forget the Lord your God by not keeping His commandments,...Deut. 8:11

Therefore you shall lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

Deut. 11:18

Take out your Bible, go to Deuteronomy and mark all the verses that mention the word commandments,ways,law, covenant. It's really amazing.

I don't think we will be chipped, or marked, I think it will come down to keeping God's commandments.

Jesus states many times in scripture, If you love me, keep my commandments.

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Rev. 14:12.

In Christ,

CarolineS

.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Caroline, all of those passages in Deuteronomy are addressed to the children of Israel.

The Sabbath was a covenant between God and His people Israel.

Anyways, nobody is keeping the biblical sabbath today... NOBODY. Not Jews, not Seventh-Day Adventists... NOBODY. When is the last time somebody was put to death for NOT observing the Sabbath?

We can't pick and choose the aspects of God's law that we are to follow. If we are going to say, "you must keep the Sabbath." Then that also means "we must put to death those that do NOT keep the Sabbath." You cannot divide the two.

Lastly, the Sabbath day rest was a figurative symbol of our rest in Jesus Christ:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"The Sabbath was a covenant betwen God and His people Israel."

OK. I believe that when a person accepts Christ as his Savior, that person is grafted into spiritual Israel. We become spiritual Jews.

"And if you are Christ's, then you are Abrahams's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galations 3:29.

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outwad in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."

Romans 2:28-29.

I believe that Jews do keep the Sabbath and attend services on Saturday. And I know that Sevtenth-Day Adventists also keep the Sabbath.

Who says the Sabbath was a figurative symbol? As far as I know the fourth commandment, "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy," is not a symbol of any kind, but a commandment from God.

So are you saying we should keep only nine commandments, and the fourth commandment is only a figurative symbol?

In Christ,

CarolineS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Caroline,

I dont want to lead this thread in a whole other direction., But I agree with Trust & Obey, and I would like to respond to the above.

Galatians 3:24-26

24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

The Law was and is a tutor that leads us to the Lord Jesus who is our rest. We enter this rest through belief in Him.

Hebrews 4:3

For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said," AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,"although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 4:10

For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

Like I said, I dont want to lead this thread way out of sorts, but our faith and trust in Jesus is our rest. We do not enter this rest through works of the law, our works are a result of our faith and trust in Him.

I too believe that the mark will be a literal mark of some sort, satan is too arogant and will want to show his temporary power.

People will not be able to buy or sell without this mark. It will have to be something, that if we dont have it, will prevent those who dont have this mark from doing so. satan is not omni-present and therefore will not know who worships him or not, nor will his followers, without some sort of outward (or inward if it is indeed a chip) mark on the hand or forhead as is written.

In Jesus

Kevin