Mark of the Beast

[Guest OneVision]

I think it should be kept simple, Having or not having the Mark of the Beast may very well have to do with putting our words of faith into action and the action carried out by our minds which guide our hands. Committing ourselves to doing the will of God "READ CAROLINEs Post above...so I dont have to retype it...I agree with everything said there (Obey his Commands to the letter, which we are commanded to do without changing IT to conform it to our life practices prior to understanding it or realizing that we should be following it to the "T") and not the will of Satin which can get deep but in a nutshell can be lethal by one small action like in the garden. The mark God gave in the "Frontlets" which is easily translated into "our minds" is a paramount statement about where Gods people will and are Marked by God!...Much more to say on this topic but will stop for those interested to digest.

Edited June 7, 2005 by OneVision

[Trust & Obey]

Trust and Obey,

You are missing the point.  It is not an issue of legalism to obey God's Law.  It is an issue of love.

We are saved by grace, not of works, as you have stated.  Grace transforms us.  Through grace our heart is converted.  If we are truly converted, we should exhibit a changed life.  Our lives should not be the same as before receiving the grace of God.  Because of our changed life, we can now perform good works, good fruit is produced in our lives.

So what are some good works, or good fruit, we should see in the life of a true believer?  Not lying, not commiting adultery, not stealing.  Now we have a desire to keep the law of God. 

Now we have a desire not to sin.  What is sin?  According to scripture, sin is the transgression of the law.  Sin is breaking the law of God.

You are saying there is no law.  We don't need the commandments, they are just for the Jews, we are under grace.  If there is no law, then there is no sin. 

Caroline, my dear sis, YOU said it, NOT me. But, I think Paul might agree.

Are we under the law?

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

NOTE: I never said that "we are free to sin," like Paul's argument in Rom 6:15 touches upon. I am simply pointing out that we are not under the law. We are not judged by the law.

Now, having established that we are not under the law we can continue to:

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Why are we clean from our sin? Because we have none? NO. Because we are not under the law. And, as Paul states in Rom 5:13, "sin is not imputed when there is no law."

Again, we have the same thought below:

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

So, we are free from the penalty of sin and transgression. Why? Because we are not under the law. And, why are we not under it? Because Christ is the fulfillment of it.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

One last verse:

Rom 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?

Rom 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

I would be so pleased to augment Paul's rhetorical argument above:

T&O Augmentation:

Thou that sayest a man should keep the sabbath, dost thou keep the sabbath?

Thou that sayest thou keepeth the sabbath, smitest thou those who keepeth it not?

BTW, I have completely lost track of what this thread is supposed to be about.

[Sanctyfied]

Doesn't the Bible tells us not to argue.

How come everyone here ignores that part?

I'm right! No I'm right. No I'm right.

get real people.

Jesus is coming back for A bride without spot or blemish.

If the antichrist is a spiritual thing. I would think he is in this room sometimes.

with all the bickering about who's right and who is not.

No matter how either one of you put it. about the mark being spiritual and all. I Just cannot see it.

I read the Bible line by line, verse by verse. I don't see all this spiritual stuff you keep trying to explain.

If it was to be a spiritual mark don't you think that it would say It is a spiritual number. Not It is a human number?

God spoke clearly throughout the entire Bible why would He change it in one book?

[Remnantrob]

MoB= Sabbath day? How could that be? Why would God make something so insignificant as a day of worship a test/mark for condemnation?

I say he did it before, why not again.

Let's look at Genesis 2:16,17

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did they die over something as small as a piece of fruit? Of course they did, but not because he wasn't merciful, but because he was fulfilling the consequences of the command he gave. I think Satan is a pretty tricky guy and of course he know the bible better than all of us, but let's continue to pray and study so that we know what is truth. If I'm wrong for believing this is the MoB then may God have mercy on me and show me my error, and what is truth.

In Christ

Rob

[Trust & Obey]

MoB= Sabbath day?  How could that be?  Why would God make something so insignificant as a day of worship a test/mark for condemnation? 

I say he did it before, why not again.

Let's look at Genesis 2:16,17

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

  17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did they die over something as small as a piece of fruit?  Of course they did, but not because he wasn't merciful, but because he was fulfilling the consequences of the command he gave.  I think Satan is a pretty tricky guy and of course he know the bible better than all of us, but let's continue to pray and study so that we know what is truth.  If I'm wrong for believing this is the MoB then may God have mercy on me and show me my error, and what is truth. 

In Christ

Rob

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, it *might* fit if you can fit it on your right hand or forehead.

[visionary]

The place of His sanctuary, which is our minds, will be cast down, polluted and need serious cleansing. Good thing that Yeshua cleansed the temple at the start of His ministry and then again at the end of His earthly ministry for us. During the Rosh Hashanah come all the last warnings that this world will receive before the plagues fall.

Ezekiel 12:1 The word of the LORD also came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

Here is what it takes to make Babylon, a rebellious house, a rebellious church, those types of churches that refuse to see, they refuse to hear the Word of the Lord....

Ezekiel 12:3 Therefore, thou son of man, prepare thee stuff for removing, and remove by day in their sight; and thou shalt remove from thy place to another place in their sight: it may be they will consider, though they be a rebellious house. 4

Edited June 8, 2005 by visionary

[CarolineS]

Greetings,

When I read the commandments recorded in Deuteronomy 5, I do not see any commandment that says we are to stone those who do not keep the Sabbath.

"These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me." Deut. 5:22.

I see ten commandments that were written by the finger of God into stone. Two pieces of rock, placed in the Holy of Holies, placed inside the Ark. Were they important then? Are they even more important in our day? Were they ever done away with? Is God's Law not for us?

Let's see what Jesus himself said about the commandments in Matther 5.

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

It seems to me the commandments will stand as is until "heaven and earth pass away". We also are not to break these commandments or teach others to break them. We are to do them and teach them.

We need God's Law as a mirror to see our sin. If we do not preach and teach and keep these commandments less people will be convicted of sin. Less people will see their need for a Savior, since the Law points to Christ and our need for Him.

Therefore, lawlessness will increase.

This is exactly what we are seeing now. Lawlessness is increasing. We know that in the last days lawlessness will increase and the love of many will grow cold.

People will begin to be divided over this issue of God's Law. It is happening already. Even among christians, among churches, even here at WB.

Revelation tells us that there will only be two groups of people on earth at His return. Those who keep His commandments and those who worship the beast.

We are to overcome sin with the help of the comforter -- the Spirit of truth --

Revelation repeatedly states we are to overcome. "To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." (Rev. 2:7).

Those who keep the commandments will receive the seal of God. Those who don't.....well, I guess they will belong to someone else.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Trust & Obey]

Greetings,

When I read the commandments recorded in Deuteronomy 5, I do not see any commandment that says we are to stone those who do not keep the Sabbath.

Caroline, its actually in Exodus just after the giving of the 10 commandments in Exodus 20.

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

[CarolineS]

OK. I compared Exodus 20 and Deut. 5 and the commandments are much the same, a little different wording.

We must remember that the Jewish people were in captivity in Egypt for a long, long time. (Was it around 300 yrs.? I'm not sure of the exact duration.) They had forgotten about God's Sabbaths, and ceremonial laws, and many Jewish practices.

They were in the wilderness and complaining against Moses and Aaron. They thought that they would die of starvation. So the Lord gave them bread from heaven. The Lord said to Moses, "Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you. And people shall go out and gather a certain quota every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not."

So Moses instructed the people as the Lord told him, "Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none."

"Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, 'How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?' Exodus 16:27.

So we have a group of people who are being disobedient to God. These are God's people that were led out of captivity. There were to be a shining example for all other people. They are to be God's chosen people. I would guess when they first came out of captivity they were a rough group. Would God tolerate their acts of disobedience? He needed to shape them up, train them, instruct them in His laws, they were to be a holy people. So I believe that is why in Exodus 31:15, we see the Lord telling Moses that whoever does not observe the Sabbath would be put to death. He had to deal harshly with them to remove disobedience and establish His laws.

If you believe we are to stone those who do not keep the Sabbath in order to follow the ten commandments, do you also believe we should stone those who commit adultery? Should we also stone someone who murders?

In Christ,

CarolineS

[visionary]

By the catholics fighting theologically hard that they are not the biblical prophectic one to rise to world absolute power, they have defeated themselves as it is at the heart of their theology. They can not have it both ways. They want to worship at the temple in Jerusalem, sit on the throne of God so to speak. They want the world to worship under their dictates and thus work very hard behind the political scenes, and are very visiably active in that arena. I also hope that they are not the biblical prophectic evil system.

To want any religion to be the ultimate evil religious system, that cause all both great and small to worship or else is bringing the tribulation that is beyond anything this world has ever experienced so far closer to reality. I agree that Islam is a contenter for the evil position. I asked you to give me seven kings and now I will for your consideration.

Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings.