OneAccord Posted May 14, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 14, 2005 This is an interesting discussion, I am enjoying it, thank you all for being civil. To not believe in limited atonement is to believe in universal salvation. The problem with limited atonement, which has been brought out well in this thread, is defining it. How is it limited? Is it limited by God to only those who He chose/elected? Is it limited by our response, in which case it would be something more like a conditional atonement. Why is it limited? Because God has predestined an elect people from the foundation of the world? Or because the efficacy of the atonement is dependent on us to believe or choose it? In other words, Christ did His part, now it's up to us, thus limited by our sin and rebellion. This is a very difficult situation theolgically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthnluv Posted May 15, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 15, 2005 This is an interesting discussion, I am enjoying it, thank you all for being civil. To not believe in limited atonement is to believe in universal salvation. The problem with limited atonement, which has been brought out well in this thread, is defining it. How is it limited? Is it limited by God to only those who He chose/elected? Is it limited by our response, in which case it would be something more like a conditional atonement. Why is it limited? Because God has predestined an elect people from the foundation of the world? Or because the efficacy of the atonement is dependent on us to believe or choose it? In other words, Christ did His part, now it's up to us, thus limited by our sin and rebellion. This is a very difficult situation theolgically. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Limited atonement is particularly associated with Calvinism. In fact, it is the third of The Five Points of Calvinism. This reformed(Calvinist) teaching holds that Christ only bore the sins of the elect and that His work on the Cross takes away the penalty of sin only for those predestined to recieve mercy. Hence, the atonement is limited to God's elect. Truthnluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs Posted May 15, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 15, 2005 Limited atonement is particularly associated with Calvinism. In fact, it is the third of The Five Points of Calvinism. This reformed(Calvinist) teaching holds that Christ only bore the sins of the elect and that His work on the Cross takes away the penalty of sin only for those predestined to recieve mercy. Hence, the atonement is limited to God's elect. Truthnluv <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But Arminianism also teaches limited atonement - limited to those who believe in Jesus' work for them and accept it. So it is all a matter of which version of limited is most Biblical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFaceInTheCrowd Posted May 15, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,138 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/26/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/16/1969 Share Posted May 15, 2005 John 3:16&17 does hold the answers to that question.GOD so loved the world.The world would indicate all people not just a chosen few."Whosoever believeth..." this would also indicate all who believe not just a few.The atonement isnt limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthnluv Posted May 15, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 15, 2005 Limited atonement is particularly associated with Calvinism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs Posted May 17, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 17, 2005 John 3:16&17 does hold the answers to that question.GOD so loved the world.The world would indicate all people not just a chosen few."Whosoever believeth..." this would also indicate all who believe not just a few.The atonement isnt limited. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, even in your view it is limited. It would be limited because not all would choose to believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthnluv Posted May 18, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2005 John 3:16&17 does hold the answers to that question.GOD so loved the world.The world would indicate all people not just a chosen few."Whosoever believeth..." this would also indicate all who believe not just a few.The atonement isnt limited. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, even in your view it is limited. It would be limited because not all would choose to believe it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't see the atonement as being limited at all. Everyone's sins were atoned for. Jesus was the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. Truthnluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted May 18, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 119 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2005 The Arminians I've talked to don't believe in total depravity or election. They seem to believe that man is born innocent, then becomes sinful, chooses to come to God if he's smart enough to believe the gospel, and then his sins are forgiven. I guess this is a form of limited atonement. There's just so much error compounded together that it gets confusing. Truthnluv <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whoa Man is born innocent??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs Posted May 18, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 45 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,081 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 The Arminians I've talked to don't believe in total depravity or election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted May 18, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted May 18, 2005 However, sinners do get some benefits. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Interesting choice of words here. You believe that some people aren't sinners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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