mrs

This is truly terrible. I don't understand why schools in a place as known for tornadoes as Oklahoma, would not have shelters built in to them. Feel so horrible for the poor parents and families. What an awful day in history.

In the same vein then, why do Christians approve of celebrating Halloween? It's roots are clearly obvious, yet most Christians think nothing of it.

A couple that people have already mentioned and also.. Sacred Marriage by Gary Thomas Knowing God by J. I. Packer

Wow i am so sorry to hear that. It really seems that for some reason her heart has turned against you. God can change her heart though and bring beauty from ashes.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperatly wicked; who can know it?

Fresno, I really liked reading those, thanks.

Again you are actually missing what Paul said in those verses.

I'd like to give you a real life story about why NOT to force your child to be baptized. Growing up, I knew what baptism was and it would terrify me. I was very shy and didn't want to be in front of people. As a child of 8 or 9 I remember asking my dad why he couldnt just baptize me in the bathtub. At 10, I said in an indirect way that I had gotten saved and my parents brought up baptism. I still remember, because it was so stressful and unpleasant to me, sitting in the living room as they talked to me about it and I would not give in to the idea. For whatever reason they dropped it at the time. When I was actually saved at the age of 12 in summer tent meetings, baptism was the last thing on my mind. I was too busy enjoying the freedom from that heavy weight, and the tenderness of a new conscience. Then my mom started bringing it up, and I started getting uncomfortable. Again I remember one night going to church in the fall, and she had been talking about it, and I told her I wouldnt, and she was mad at me. Finally bowing to the pressure, I asked our pastor to get baptized, and was with a group of other people in early October. It was not a special time for me though,and afterward as people were having fellowship my mom commented to me on how I didnt look happy. I just frowned and turned away. The reason I told you is the whole episode was entirely unpleasant. I was a child and a new Christian and there was no joy in being baptised or even really understanding full well the signifigance. It was just something to do so my mom would stop bothering me about it. It still leaves a bitter taste in my memory. So be careful how you approach it with your children. It could be they are just scared at being in front of people.

Quoting Ovedya - So we'll have a fresh pack of "WOF-ers" from the prisons. I guess "watered down Christ" is better than no Christ at all. Response - Philippians 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. Question - I've seen that term "WOF-ers" and do not know what you mean by that. Please explain it to me. Thanks in Jesus' name - Note : it says Christ was preached, but for the wrong reasons. It doesnt say, a inaccurate or unBiblical version of Christ was preached. There is a huge difference.

You have to see ted for that. What he charges you depends on his mood at the time. (Im just kidding folks) Oh, hmmm...mood rings... they are on the occult list! O.O What about my membership card from Roger's Video? It is called a "mood" card.

So you are equating this disobedient little 11 year old girl with Jesus Christ... And us with the Jews who called for Christ's crucifiction? I think that's a bit of a stretch. Don't you? Aren't we supposed to see God in each other? I mean, not to bring the level of dialogue here to a fever pitch, but I always thought the challenge of the Gospel was to see God in those who were hurting and angry and needed care the most....sounds like this kid was pretty troubled. So yeah, it's not that much of a stretch, maybe. Where do you get that idea of the gospel? God is not in humans The challenge of the gospel is teling the lost that they need a Saviour without being killed doing so.

Yeah, I'm good at that. Especially when I realize that the person replying to me is not open to a different point of view. Btw, it's 'Glory'.....morning is when I wake up. This is really an immature way to have a discussion and accomplishes nothing.

It is not gripping. It is legitimate concern over the quality of teaching that has been titled "Christian."

Well then I guess you would be okay with someone using a taser on YOUR child (I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be.) Your comment about children being sinners is ludicrous; she isn't OLD ENOUGH to be accountable or to be treated like a convicted felon. Maybe YOU missed this part.... "I believe she should have been restrained but even wild animals are usually caught in a snare; not zapped with electricity. Did you miss the part about a taser being a potential cause of death in some people? That's why I mentioned the 'portable rubber room' for minors. It doesn't exist...but it should." You don't get a child to learn or change by hitting them with a painful and potentially lethal weapon. Look to kids that are beaten severely while growing up and note the pattern of criminality and cruelty that manifests as they grow older. (And, no, I'm NOT saying ALL of them.) They learn quickly that the biggest and most brutal gets the cookies. If you had read my first post you would have seen that I didnt think using a taser was the best idea since she was small. My problem with your posts was the fact you put all the blame for her actions on outside sources and that is inaccurate and unBiblical. If I had a child and she dared to rebell against authority and have the nerve to strike a police officer, I would tell her she got what she deserved. I would also give her a sound spanking at home. Kids need consequences or they grow up to be wild, uncontrollable, and a danger to society. How dare you equate being zapped with Taser, and someone beating their child.That is an absolutely different scenario. Children are humans and are capable of sin. They must be held accoutable for it. She is DEFINITELY old enough to be held accountable for her sin. Are you joking?? Is there some magic age you have to reach, before you can be punished for your sin? No one treated her like a felon, if they had she'd have been thrown in jail and charged with assault. You are definitely overreacting and placing all the blame on the adults instead of the child herself. "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child, but the rod of correction will drive it far from him." How dare I???? Have you decided that I shouldn't???? Undue force, whatever the means, is what it is. Try a rational approach to the pros and cons of using this kind of force on anyone other than a dangerous criminal instead of your feeble attempt at bluster. Morning you ignored everything I said in both my first post, and in my replies to you.

The Trinity debate is in the other thread. But one thing that clearly stands out in Scripture is that Holy Spirit is a name not just a title. I do not debate the trinity.....We serve a triune God. And could you show me where the Holy Spirit is used as a name? Sounds to me if each was an individual name that you would be baptised into 3 different gods. God is 3 in one......also why does scripture in one place the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit (one name of course), and in another in Jesus name? Obviously all are the same. the Bible seems quite clear on that. Ok you had me scared for a minute. What I meant by Holy Spirit being a name, is God the Father has many 'titles', and Jesus is called Christ, Lord, redeemer, saviour etc. But when I think of references to the Spirit, I remember Comforter, Guide, and Holy Spirit. So I think of Holy Spirit being His name, just as Christ Jesus is the Son's name. But I totally agree God is triune.

Satan is good at mixing a lot of truth with just enough poison.

...not sure if you really want to join them. They raise blood pressure.

Yes she would have. People always find something to have issue with - except the child who is to blame.

Well then I guess you would be okay with someone using a taser on YOUR child (I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be.) Your comment about children being sinners is ludicrous; she isn't OLD ENOUGH to be accountable or to be treated like a convicted felon. Maybe YOU missed this part.... "I believe she should have been restrained but even wild animals are usually caught in a snare; not zapped with electricity. Did you miss the part about a taser being a potential cause of death in some people? That's why I mentioned the 'portable rubber room' for minors. It doesn't exist...but it should." You don't get a child to learn or change by hitting them with a painful and potentially lethal weapon. Look to kids that are beaten severely while growing up and note the pattern of criminality and cruelty that manifests as they grow older. (And, no, I'm NOT saying ALL of them.) They learn quickly that the biggest and most brutal gets the cookies. If you had read my first post you would have seen that I didnt think using a taser was the best idea since she was small. My problem with your posts was the fact you put all the blame for her actions on outside sources and that is inaccurate and unBiblical. If I had a child and she dared to rebell against authority and have the nerve to strike a police officer, I would tell her she got what she deserved. I would also give her a sound spanking at home. Kids need consequences or they grow up to be wild, uncontrollable, and a danger to society. How dare you equate being zapped with Taser, and someone beating their child.That is an absolutely different scenario. Children are humans and are capable of sin. They must be held accoutable for it. She is DEFINITELY old enough to be held accountable for her sin. Are you joking?? Is there some magic age you have to reach, before you can be punished for your sin? No one treated her like a felon, if they had she'd have been thrown in jail and charged with assault. You are definitely overreacting and placing all the blame on the adults instead of the child herself. "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child, but the rod of correction will drive it far from him."

The Trinity debate is in the other thread. But one thing that clearly stands out in Scripture is that Holy Spirit is a name not just a title.

I'm more interested in knowing why a Christian would refuse to be baptised? Because, it has been devalued to the point of worthlessness, at least by the evangelical community. And that is strictly my opinion. Sure it is a 'requirement' for church (little c) membership. But obviously not for Church (big C) membership. But I can't honestly recall the last timed I heard a serious sermon of any significance of baptism. The best I have heard is a minute or two's discussion, before the ordinance is performed, but I don't think I have ever heard a pastor devote a full sermon to it. However, I have heard quite a few sermons in regards to why we wiffle down a slight piece of bread and drink a tiny glass of juice. Am I crazy, or am I the only one who sees something wrong with what is going on? Hmm I never thought about it that way before.

The UN wont do anything, they hate Isreal. But these people are right, Iran needs to be called to account for it's outlandish treatment of Isreal.

Morning, you are doing an excellent job of missing the point that children are rebellious because they are sinners! Depraved just like the adults in our society and capable of the same evil. I agree that many children are abused or neglected but that is not every case. Even if a child is a spoiled brat from how they were raised they are still held accountable for their actions and will be punished for them. Regardless of how she got to that point this child was WAY out of line and knew better. She was rebellious, willful, violent, disrespectful, and out of control. Consequences should follow.

This is an age old debate and I've no doubt you could find many an older thread worth at least 500 posts, going in circles on it. My thoughts which I dont want to elaborate on lest I get drawn into debate: - Salvation is clearly of grace and getting wet can do nothing for your eternal security as that would make Jesus an insufficient Redeemer - Baptism is symbolic, an outward testimony to a new birth and a new life - Christians are commanded to be baptized just as we are commanded to partake of the Lord's supper, and I could not imagine why one would rebel against it. For a time they might hesitate or question, but outright rebel? That makes no sense.