Montana Marv Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2019 Let's look at it a different way. Before the Flood, in the Days of Noah, There was fear, calamity, there were wars, rumors of wars, there were disturbances in the sky and on the earth. There were earthquakes and famine, killing each other and throughout all this calamity there was time for eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage. Does this sound familiar? In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childoftheking Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 842 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2019 21 minutes ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, childoftheking. Nor do you, apparently, for you said, "παράδεισος = heaven" when really "παράδεισος = PARK!" Translations of παράδεισος Noun Frequency paradise παράδεισος Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childoftheking Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 842 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Montana Marv said: You have a wrong view of what is going on here. As is the day of Noah; Eating, drinking, marriage and giving in marriage. Status Quo, be going on for years, nothing new is about to happen. So shall at the coming of the Son of Man. (Which Coming, Which Gathering). Let's see. 2nd Seal - Peace is taken from the earth (what will this do to eating and drinking); 3rd Seal - Famine, (what will this do to eating and drinking); 4th Seal - 1/4 of those who live on this earth die. 1st Trumpet - 1/3 of the earth is burned; 2nd Trumpet - 1/3 of the seas turn to blood; 3rd Trumpet - 1/3 of the springs and rivers turn to blood. Then after the 4th Trumpet are the Three Woes. Where is Noah's time of eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage in all of this? And then there are the rest of the Trumpets and then the Bowls. All this in anticipation of another (brief time), "as in the Day's of Noah". This narrative does not work. As In the "Days of Noah" will work right at this time, but it will not work, mid - Pre Wrath - or Post Trib. Too much fear, chaos, uncertainty at this time. In Christ Montana Marv If you ask any Messianic Jew if tribulation means WRATH they will laugh at you. That is a false presumption of a Christian who believes they are more special than the Jew. But you get this idea from your misinterpreted English Bible. It's like looking at 1 Corinthians 15: 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. ...and believing this means Pre-Trib while forgetting verse 52 specifies this is talking about the "last trump." Paul even clarifies this in 1 Thess: 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. This Trump in verse 17 is the LAST TRUMP in verse 52. And Yeshua clarifies when this happens in Matthew 24, at the end of Tribulation. Edited May 5, 2019 by childoftheking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childoftheking Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 842 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2019 Translations of tribulation Noun Frequency δοκιμασία trial, probation, ordeal, tribulation, proof, crucible Translations of wrath Noun Frequency οργή anger, wrath, rage, fury, ire, dander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childoftheking Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 842 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, Montana Marv said: Let's look at it a different way. Before the Flood, in the Days of Noah, There was fear, calamity, there were wars, rumors of wars, there were disturbances in the sky and on the earth. There were earthquakes and famine, killing each other and throughout all this calamity there was time for eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage. Does this sound familiar? In Christ Montana Marv You cannot ever claim a sinner and believer are experience the same thing. We see the sinners today not heeding warnings like Noah was proclaiming to unbelievers then. We see sinners today going about their merry way while believers are preparing for the worst. When you put BOTH VIEWS together, you get the complete picture TODAY, as it was with Noah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childoftheking Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 842 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2019 Matthew 24: And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows. Yeshua claims these SIGNS that LEAD to Tribulation are the beginning of "Sorrows." He is calling the TRIBULATION a period of SORROWS, not a period of WRATH. NOWHERE does the word WRATH occur in chapter 24 describing Tribulation!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2019 1 minute ago, childoftheking said: You cannot ever claim a sinner and believer are experience the same thing. We see the sinners today not heeding warnings like Noah was proclaiming to unbelievers then. We see sinners today going about their merry way while believers are preparing for the worst. When you put BOTH VIEWS together, you get the complete picture TODAY, as it was with Noah. The thing is that you are (we are) a sinner, you (we) continue to sin, you (we) have not been made perfect yet. So we do experience the same things. Do Believers and Unbelievers experience divorce, do we all experience death in our families. Do Believers go bankrupt, do some lie. Are Believers cursed because of not giving First Fruits to God, Scripture says so. Does one sacrifice themselves in other areas because they do not have the ability to give of their First Fruits. Christ does not want your Sacrifice, He wants you Obedience. And then TODAY we get a complete picture!!!! Yes TODAY, But the G.T. is a different can of worms. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childoftheking Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 842 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Montana Marv said: The thing is that you are (we are) a sinner, you (we) continue to sin, you (we) have not been made perfect yet. So we do experience the same things. Do Believers and Unbelievers experience divorce, do we all experience death in our families. Do Believers go bankrupt, do some lie. Are Believers cursed because of not giving First Fruits to God, Scripture says so. Does one sacrifice themselves in other areas because they do not have the ability to give of their First Fruits. Christ does not want your Sacrifice, He wants you Obedience. And then TODAY we get a complete picture!!!! Yes TODAY, But the G.T. is a different can of worms. In Christ Montana Marv But I have a guarantee, a promise that sinners who refuse to repent have. There is a big difference in my views compared to a sinner who finds no reason to accept Yeshua, let alone to think they need to repent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, childoftheking said: Yeshua claims these SIGNS that LEAD to Tribulation are the beginning of "Sorrows." He is calling the TRIBULATION a period of SORROWS, not a period of WRATH. NOWHERE does the word WRATH occur in chapter 24 describing Tribulation! No where in Matt 24 is Christ claiming that Israel in not the "Elect" in Matt 24. Guess What; (Great Distress, Unequaled from the beginning of the world); What does this suggest? In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childoftheking Posted May 5, 2019 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 842 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2019 EVERYONE died not on the Ark in Days of Noah, Yeshua claims the Elect will endure, survive the Tribulation. Both scenarios still put the Believer going through the time of Sorrows. Be patient I am going to copy/paste something for you with explanation: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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