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iamlamad last won the day on February 25 2017

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About iamlamad

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  1. Can we just follow what is written instead of man's reasoning? What did Jesus say? Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: This is probably why the church in general calls the 70th week "the tribulation." Jesus used that term first. I think the best term is the 70th week, but most people are still going to say "the trib." No, you still do not understand: there are MILLIONS today that CALL themselves "Christian" but have never been born again. Only those born again will be qualified for the rapture. All those left behind are going to get real serious with God very quickly and will turn to Him, being fearful of what they know is coming. OF COURSE pretrib can be proven in scripture. By the way, it is not me having a hard time understanding. I agree on your use of "great tribulation," but only when other words are added as Jesus added them - such as no other time like this ever. There is "great tribulation" in chapter 2 that is not related to the days Jesus spoke of. There is "great tribulation" in chapter 7 that is not related to the days Jesus spoke of. The days Jesus spoke of will not begin until AFTER God gives His warning as seen in Rev. 14. The beheaded do not begin to show up in heaven until chapter 15. "the beginning of sorrows" is CHURCH AGE! Did you just overlook what Jesus said about "the end is not yet?" Jesus did not get to end times until verse 14 in Matthew 24. You imagining I am confused? Pretrib KNOWs the beginning of sorrows is church age. The 70th week or "the trib" does not begin until the 7th seal. I will freely admit, FEW pretribbers know this. The 70th week must be in full swing by the 6th seal Why? Because you say so? Not a chance! The church age will not end until a moment before the 6th seal. Seals 1 through 5 are the time of the beginning of sorrows. The 70th week begins at the 7th seal. When it starts, then you will know. The Martyrs are killed in a very specific manner during the 70th week. This may be a true statement, but it has nothing to do with the 5th seal martyrs - because they are CHURCH AGE martyrs. of course you will disagree but you will find out when it happens. Prewrath thought does not foolishly conflate wrath as the whole of the 70th week Sorry to be so blunt, but that is because prewrath people just don't know the truth. The truth is, God begins wrath with the 6th seal, then the week begins with the 7th seal and therefore God's wrath continues for the ENTIRE WEEK. Where you have missed it: go back and study chapters 4 & 5. You are completely missing the message God intended: Jesus in the grave, then Jesus rose from the grave, then Jesus found worthy to take the book, then Jesus ascended, then Jesus sent the Holy Spirit down. That sets the timing of the first seal to 32 AD. It is the church taking the gospel to the world. I don't expect you to believe this until you arrive in heaven. Then you will get it. So WHY is it only "the remaining?" What happened to the rest? I say the intent of the Author is that the main load was raptured previous to this time. We will continue to disagree.
  2. No. In Jewish circles they know that the feast of trumpets is at a time know one knows. Why? Because it is timed by the sighting of the new moon. And he last long and final blast of the trumpet that ends the feast of trumpets has long been known as "the last trump."
  3. You are miss-understanding the meaning of "great tribulation" here. You see, John has not yet even started the 70th week, much less arrived at the time of the days of GT. Those days of GT will not begin until after God gives the warning not to take the mark, as seen in chapter 14. John does not see the beheaded show up in heaven until chapter 15. Yet, prewrath insists the days of GT are in the seals! It is preposterous. There will be only one group in Revelation that will be "too large to number. That will be those raptured. You get this part right: it IS the raptured church. All John is telling us is that at the time of the rapture it will be great tribulation around the world - meaning many people dying for their testimony. Always remember: ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology will be proven wrong.
  4. Since you cannot see the flaws in prewrath, of course you imagine there are flaws in my thinking. Keep in mind, my theory follows John's chronology exactly. Your theory will require a total rewrite of Revelation to fit. As an example, tell us where you think the days of GT will be in Revelation.
  5. I think the man of sin turned Beast will defeat them, very quickly.
  6. Its very easy. Right near the end of the 70th week the devil prepares for Armageddon by sending out evil spirits to bring in the nations of the world to Armageddon. These are the ten kings that throw in with the beast for one hour. On the other hand, there is ten when the beast rises. He will take out three of those ten, leaving seven, and he will become the 8th king. This will have VERY SOON after the midpoint of the week when John saw him rise up. This is his beginning. The ten that throw in with him at Armageddon is near the END. It is only a guess, but I would guess the ten horns when He rises up is the first ten, of whom 3 are defeated.
  7. This is human reasoning mixed in with some scripture, not correctly understood. Yes, the 6th seal is where God's wrath begins. There is NO GATHERING at the 7th trumpet. (Last trump and 7th trumpet are not the same.) Therefore, due to not understanding "last trump" human reasoning slipped in. The 6th seal and 7th trumpet will be around 1260 days apart. All the rest is just poor human reasoning. Can we just follow the TEXT? This is absolute: NO TRUMPET is going to be sounded until all 7 seals are opened: the trumpets are written INSIDE the book!
  8. You are missing many scriptural points: 1. John shows us that as soon as Jesus ascended He took the book and began opening the seals. Seals 1-5 have been opened since then. 2. According to Paul, the rapture will come a moment before God's wrath begins. John shows us this is at the 6th seal. 3. John saw the raptured church in heaven after the first 5 seals (as the great crowd too large to number), not before the first seal. A rapture in 4:1 is myth. that was John caught up.
  9. The Seals is where Satan is cast down Can we just follow John instead of fables? Satan is cast down after the 7th trumpet. the 7th trumpet cannot be sounded until the first 6 are sounded first. And NO TRUMPET can be sounded until the 7th seal is opened. This is showing us that the trumpets are what is written INSIDE the book. The 7th seal cannot be opened until the first 6 are opened first. Your theory is therefore bogus. Satan is cast down at the midpoint of the week, which midpoint is marked by the 7th trumpet. Before Satan is cast down, ALL SEALS will have been opened and then ALL TRUMPETS will have sounded. This is what is written. I can't imagine how you came up with your theory. Day 1260 (with 1260 days left of the week) will be marked in heaven by the sounding of the 7th trumpet. The two witnesses will have just arrived, the 144,000 will be raptured, and Satan stripped from his position as prince or god of this world. God will then have His planet back, have two witnesses and will then be ready to pour out the vials of His wrath. This is scripture, not man's theories. What you are missing: the book sealed with 7 seals is a LEGAL DOCUMENT created in heaven. NOTHING in the seals or in the book can take place legally until someone can be found worthy to take the book and open the seals. In other words, nothing in chapter 6 can take place until someone is found worthy. In other words, it would be illegal and God could not and would not send out His church to take the gospel to the world, UNTIL the first seal was opened. Furthermore, it would be illegal for Satan to start wars, cause famines, or pestilences UNTIL or unless seals 2 through 4 were opened. Thank God, Jesus was found worthy, and as soon as He ascended, opened the first seal, so the church could legally be sent out. Jesus then opened seals 2 through 5, so Satan could TRY and stop the church. Remember, all this would be illegal until the corresponding seal was opened. God's goal here is to get all seven seals opened so the BOOK can be opened: the book contains the 70th week. God cannot legally start the 70th week until all 7 seals are opened. Jesus is not going to open that 7th seal until He sees two events accomplished: the 144,000 sealed, and the church safely in heaven. Note: the Antichrist is not going to go forth "conquering" according to the first seal, for that conquering is the church. The Antichrist will go forth taking down three kings, but will that be before the week begins - or during the first half of the week? Or will be be very quickly after John saw the Beast rise up? I don't know. In Revelation, the two witnesses (one of whom will be Elijah) show up AFTER the Day begins. But how can this be, since it is written that Elijah must come BEFOre the DAY? That problem is solved because John came in the SPIRIT of Elijah, and it was certainly before the Day. The real Elijah will certain show up, with Enoch, as the two witnesses. They will suddenly appear about the time the man of sin enters Jerusalem - probably 3.5 days before he will enter the temple and declare he is god. In fact, Israel DID repent before John. Go back and read it. SO MANY came and repented that the Pharisees were jealous. I guess you are still not ready to receive it: Matthew 11:14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. ("He" being John the baptist.) As usual, you and I disagree on most points.
  10. Can we just follow the book, instead of human reasoning? You asked: upon whom will Satan vent his wrath? Why not just read? Rev. 12:16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (rest: [KJV says "remnant" meaning what is left after most have been raptured]) John therefore tells us, Satan will go after the Jews, first those that fled into the wilderness, and then will turn and go after all new believers. From other verses, we know that there will still be Jews in Jerusalem when Jesus touches down and creates a valley for people to escape. In short, his wrath will be against ALL who refuse his mark and refuse to bow to the image. There is "tribulation" that all believers face because Satan hated Jesus and so hates all who believe in Jesus. On the other hand, there is tribulation at the end that also comes simultaneous with God's wrath. Scripturally speaking, it is impossible to separate God's wrath in time from Satan's wrath, for they are simultaneous - going on at the same time. God's wrath begins with the first trumpet judgements in the first 1260 days, and continues on through the last half of the week in the vials. Satan is cast down at the midpoint so his wrath is concurrent with the last 1260 days - right beside God's wrath. On yet another hand, the church's testing will end at the pretrib rapture - which you deny. What you miss: you really don't know where "the tribulation" or the 70th week begins in Revelation. How then can you be so sure when the rapture will be in relation to the "trib?" Both Rosenthal and Van Kampen [the two guys who started prewrath thought] recognized that the great crowd, too large to number, had to be the raptured church. That was about all they got right. What they [and you] miss is that the 70th week does not start until the 7th seal, AFTER (I repeat, after!) the church is seen safely in heaven. Prewrath further misses the truth is where the days of Great Tribulation are found in Revelation. John SHOWS us so to miss it is inexcusable: John shows us the beheaded BEGINNING to show up in heaven in Rev. 15. The days of GT will start AFTER God sends the warning as seen in Rev. 14, and will continue until God pours out the vials of His wrath that will SHORTEN the days of GT. Prewrath further misses the truth by assuming that the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24 is Paul's rapture. It is not and cannot possibly be: it gathers from the wrong place and comes some 7 years after Paul's rapture. Prewrath misses it yet again in not recognizing that the signs in the sun and moon shown in Matthew 24 are DIFFERENT than the signs shown at the 6th seal: different actual signs and different in timing. Prewrath is correct in title only: the rapture is certainly prewrath: the raptured church is seen in heaven right after the wrath of God begins - at the 6th seal. The truth is, the rapture is both prewrath AND pretrib. who are the people who refuse the mark of the beast? Another thing you seem to be missing: after the rapture, millions will turn to Jesus. These are those found in dead churches today - churches that never taught them that they must be born again. We can be sure, most Jews and Hebrews will not bow down and will not take His mark. Do You see how illogical the pre-trib rapture is yet? On the contrary, I see how far from the truth the prewrath doctrine is. who is there to be seduced if the church is not there in the first place? Jews and believers in Christ. John said all whose names are written in heaven. Maybe you have not seem them, but God knows who they will be. One thing we can be sure of, it will NOT be any member of the Bride of Christ. Back to the drawing board, as they say. Throw out prewrath and start over.
  11. Not a chance: NONE: the seals are sealing the book and NO TRUMPET can be sounded until all seven seals are opened so that the book can be opened: the trumpets are INSIDE the book. 8:1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.
  12. I think you live in a dream world. No, the Dragon does NOT chase the woman for 1260 days. Did you not read? 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. He left off chasing the woman and turned to make war with those that love Jesus. Readers, the truth is, the first five seals are CHURCH AGE. Seal 5 are the martyrs of the church age, and we have not yet arrived at the start of the Day which is seal 6. God will begin the Day of the Lord with the 6th seal, and (probably 10 days) later will open the 7th seal to begin the 70th week.
  13. I think just as iron and clay will not mix, the great influx of ISLAM into Europe WON'T MIX. They are determined to make Europe into all Islamic nations.
  14. I disagree: I think it was the ELDERS of the Old Testament saints. The rapture or catching up of the rest of them will come at the 7th vial: the last 24 hours of the age.
  15. The truth of "Mystery Babylon" is exactly what John wrote: "that great city" which he explains in another chapter and JERUSALEM. Why? Because the entire world is going to be deceived by the Antichrist and False Prophet FROM the city of Jerusalem.
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