JohnR7 Posted September 6, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,907 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1952 Share Posted September 6, 2020 On 12/10/2018 at 1:22 PM, ask21771 said: if the shroud of turin is the burial cloth of Christ why would such a miracle be left out of the bible This is in the Bible: "Simon Peter arrived just after him. He entered the tomb and saw the linen cloths lying there. The face cloth that had been around Jesus’ head was rolled up, lying separate from the linen cloths." (John 20:6,7) This is exactly what we find is a face cloth separate from the linen cloth. Some people claim this is a forgery but if that were true this would be even a greater miracle that they were able to forge an artifact that gives us a very detailed description of the crucifiction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted January 18, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2021 I equate the shroud with a piece of toast with the image of Jerry Garcia toasted in it that people mistake for Jesus. i.e. I don't take it seriously. And if my faith was remotely influenced by any belief that it is authentic, my faith would be at serious risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Loger Posted January 19, 2021 Group: Non-Trinitarian Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 40 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/14/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 19, 2021 On 12/10/2018 at 12:22 PM, ask21771 said: the question I have is, if the shroud of turin is the burial cloth of Christ why would such a miracle be left out of the bible The shroud is fake. If the image that's on it belongs to anyone, it's the devil himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted January 23, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted January 23, 2021 It is a fraud and part of the superstition that the fraudulent counterfeit church that introduced it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Avery Posted January 27, 2021 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/11/1950 Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) On 8/2/2020 at 10:40 PM, Deadworm said: This thread is further evidence that evangelicals tend to live in their myopic doctrinal Ghetto and lack the integrity to challenge their doctrinal agendas by stepping out of their Ghetto to launch an honest inquiry. Thus, no one posting in this thread has bothered to google "New Evidence for the Shroud of Turin" and "The Sudarium ("facecloth" of Oviedo. If they had, they'd encounter electrifying new evidence for the authenticity of both the Shroud and the Facecloth. Among other things, they'd learn that secular scientists who discredited the Shroud in the 1970s later recanted when confronted with new evidence and came to accept the authenticity of both cloths. On what grounds? Many! Actually do some research and report on the results. Or do you not value the redemptive blood of Jesus enough to study whether that blood is on both the Shroud and the Facecloth with the same blood type AD and in the same blood spatter pattern, with evidence of the marks of an ancient Roman flagrum used to beat Jesus. New dating methods now date the Shroud to a range that includes the time of Jesus. Thank you. Yes, the mod did not like your tone, fair enough, however you make a number of superb points, neatly condensed. The only overstatement is the ambiguous statement about who "recanted". Surely not all the scientists, Barry Schwartz however does come to mind. It would be better to simply say they flipped positions, recanting implies that they felt they had done something wrong. And I was for a long time mildly sympathetic to the Shroud, abound 2016 I saw Russ Breault at a conference and that really helped move me to a positive viewpoint. The evangelicals like to dismiss this as a RCC relic, but really the RCC came to the shroud guestion very late in the day. Read the history. btw, I am also supportive of the Ron Wyatt archaeology. And try to correlate the blood analysis issues that can support the virgin birth (on the Shroud this goes back to a paper in Italy, I believe untranslated.) No interest in veneration, however very interesting for Christian Bible historical apologetics! Also science. Edited January 27, 2021 by Steven Avery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR7 Posted January 31, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,907 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1952 Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 1/19/2021 at 3:42 AM, Gary Loger said: The shroud is fake. If the image that's on it belongs to anyone, it's the devil himself. If the shroud was a fake then they would be able to duplicate another one. There is not a person alive that could duplicate the shroud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 1, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 12/10/2018 at 10:22 AM, ask21771 said: The shroud of turin is a long linen cloth bearing a mysterious image of a man who many claim is Jesus Christ, although radio carbon dating puts the shrouds origins in the middle ages multiple lines of evidence (blood stains, dirt etc.) seem to support it being the burial cloth of Jesus. However another factor to consider is this there is no mention of a linen cloth with the image of Jesus ANYWHERE in the bible, so the question I have is, if the shroud of turin is the burial cloth of Christ why would such a miracle be left out of the bible Why would anyone need the shroud of turin to verify the death of Christ? We already have that in the Holy Bible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logostician Posted February 1, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 358 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 1, 2021 I'm not sure why anyone would assign any real significance to the "shroud of Turin". Quite frankly, whether it's real or not, doesn't really matter to me. I have a relationship with a living, loving savior named Jesus. He is not dead. He is risen and very much alive. A death shroud meant nothing him. And same is true for me. The cross is the true symbol of the death of Jesus. That is why you see it displayed in churches, and people's homes, and worn around people's necks. The cross is a powerful symbol of Christ's sacrifice for the sins of all mankind that provides salvation for anyone who will beleive and ask. But even so, we don't worship crosses. We worship the Holy One who was nailed on a cross for our sins. So I guess the reason you see so much about the cross and crucifixion in the Bible is because it is the greatest act of love from God toward men that is unparalleled and eternal. And the reason you don't read about a supposedly imprinted death shroud in the Bible, is because even if it was real, it is irrelevant to our faith in Jesus. I advise pursuing. relationship with Jesus, rather than worrying about a piece of cloth. Cloth can't save. Jesus saves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR7 Posted February 7, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,907 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1952 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 1/17/2021 at 7:46 PM, AND IN THIS CORNER said: and Yet...people are still undecided.... amazing - traditions of men vs God's word - your pick There are people that reject the scientific evidence for the Bible. One reason maybe be that science brings new information to the discussion and challenges our traditions. Jesus warns us (Mark 7:8) that the traditions of man nullify the word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR7 Posted February 7, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,907 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1952 Share Posted February 7, 2021 On 2/1/2021 at 2:47 AM, Logostician said: doesn't really matter to me. What works for some people does not always work for everyone. Just because something is of no value to you - does not mean God will not use something to bring others to Christ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts