America

[Guest Bro David™]

God is not all about a piece of Real Estate. He dosen't live in Israel. He lives where ever he wants at any time. He lives in the hearts of those who have accepted his son. When he had us in the garden, it was Iraq. He will make a new Heaven and a new Earth. Its not some strip of land or heritage that connects you to Jesus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Let me remind you of something.

God has indeed Chosen Jerusalem.

1Ki

[dgolvach]

Are you speaking of the current Jerusalem that exists in Israel?

God Bless

Dan

[Guest shiloh357]

They shut you out. America is your home. American Vet cemetaries or full of great men who died to give you freedom. Are there any Irsaeli Vet cemetaries full of such men? No ...they won't even let you in. What have they ever done for you? I know American Jews(5.2 million) that would be put off by this thinking. God is not all about a piece of Real Estate. He dosen't live in Israel. He lives where ever he wants at any time. He lives in the hearts of those who have accepted his son. When he had us in the garden, it was Iraq. He will make a new Heaven and a new Earth. Its not some strip of land or heritage that connects you to Jesus.

Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Goy?...What? Isn't that silly?

Is it not enough to be a "born again child of God". Your a Christian my friend. Thats all you need to be. In Israel your a Goy(boy thats a new one on me). In the U.S., your a full human being. Thank God your in this wonderful Country. Be loyal to it as long as it is a just country. Stay here and try to improve it. How just is not letting someone in because their a "goy"?

Goodness!!

God Bless You

Dan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me ask you Dan...

Have you ever loved someone who did not love you back? Have you ever had anyone in your life who you would do anything for, yet they did not have anywhere near the same feelings?

Whether your answer is yes or no, that is how many of us feel about Israel. I would gladly fight for Israel even if they would not give me the time of day.

Let me explain... We Messianic Jews, have 1,700 years of "Christian" anti-Semitism to thank for the current animosity that our unsaved Jewish people feel toward us.

For centuries, Jews have been the brunt of jokes, and of abject hate in countries whose majority population were baptized, confirmed church members. We have been kicked out nearly every Christian nation in the world, and have been blamed for the black plague, and every financial hardship of every country in which we took up residence. We have been called Christ killers, we have been told by the church that we are irrelevant and are despised by God.

We have been accused of masterminding world domination, blamed for communism, persecuted with pogroms inquisitions and all manner of persecutions culminating with Hitler's madness. During this time, we were refused our rights in courts of law, and were prohibited from owning business or even being involved in the politics of the nations that we took up residence. All of this in nations whose majority population claimed the name of Christ.

All of that over 1,700 year period of time has caused Christianity to leave a very bitter taste in the mouth of many Jews, and this only compounded by the fact that even now, Christians still have to wonder WHY Jews are opposed to receiving Jesus. It demonstrates to Jews that Christians are oblivious to 1,700 years or more of their own history.

In the Jewish mind, becoming a believer in Jesus makes a Jew "Meshummed." In other words, it makes us a traitor. We are seen as traitor to our people. The current Jewish rejection of Jesus is not as much theological, as it is emotional and not without sound historical justification. It does not occur in a vacuum. Many unbelieving Jews are opposed to us being citizens in Israel on that basis alone. We love them anyway.

There is another consideration that needs to be taken into consideration. Israel does not allow very many Gentiles to be citizens there unless they are born in the Land. Israel was created to be a Jewish nation. There is nothing wrong with that. It was a nation created for and by the Jewish people. China is ethnically Chinese, Japan is ethnically Japanese. Other countries in the world have stipulations on who can and cannot be a citizen in their lands. In Holland, only ethnic Dutch can be citizens. Only Muslims can be citizens in Arab nation or in nations like Pakistan. In fact, Pakistan was created specifically for Indian nationals who converted to Islam. Just as other nations have been created for specific people fitting specific criteria, Israel is just imitating what other nations have done.

So to answer your question based upon the above, it is perfectly normal and "just" for Israel to deicide who can and cannot become citizens of their nation. No other nation's "justice" is questioned along those lines, and Israel's should not be questioned either!!

[dgolvach]

So to answer your question based upon the above, it is perfectly normal and "just" for Israel to deicide who can and cannot become citizens of their nation. No other nation's "justice" is questioned along those lines, and Israel's should not be questioned either!!

As far as I am concerned, Israel can do as they please. Let me ask..........

Is it "just" for them to accept taxdollars and military hardware from people like Shimshon who they reject? Ever heard of footing your own bill? In the end, I don't particularly mind my taxdollars going to Israel because I view them as allies. Still,if I did not want to send money and arms to someone...would that make me their enemy? At some point I wouldn't mind taking some of the tax money we send all over the world and diverting towards our own country's needs. There is plenty of God's work that can happen here in the U.S.. Is that so wrong?

Actually, America's justice is questioned everytime some of it's citizen's complain about 10000 illegals coming over the border daily. This is where I don't totally understand President Bush. Still, as someone who lives and works amongst illegals, I am able to see both sides enough to know that there is no simple answer. I don't find it necessary to rag on Bush for this. Some here do. Every chance they get for every little thing he does or says. Rag Rag Rag It accomplishs nothing except the possibility of a hard leftist( who probably hates Israel) getting control of the White House. This is why I have been so spirited on the past three threads. Its one thing to disagree, but just look at how little respect President Bush was givin on these posts. "stupid' "betrayer" ect. I also simply have a problem with accepting the blessings that a just country offers to you without being loyal to it. I believe America on balance is just. Needs some improvement on the domestic side. So lets improve it. Anything wrong with that?

God Bless

Dan

[dgolvach]

We have been accused of masterminding world domination, blamed for communism, persecuted with pogroms inquisitions and all manner of persecutions culminating with Hitler's madness. During this time, we were refused our rights in courts of law, and were prohibited from owning business or even being involved in the politics of the nations that we took up residence. All of this in nations whose majority population claimed the name of Christ.

By the way, my Father and 2 brothers fought against Hitler. 2 of those great men were wounded. One(who was decorated twice) came back and suffered from a head injury for the rest of his life. He could not drive or hold a job. The other was shot up. I can get the records and post them if you would like. I don't wan't you to even entertain the idea that I am making this up. My father lays in Veterens Memorial cemetary in Houston along with many other of his brothers who stood up against Hiltler. We are Gentiles. It was horrible what Hitler did to 6million Jews and 46 million Gentiles. Hitler was an Animal, but God through AMERICA and AMERICANs amongst other great GENTILE\ CHRISTIAN nations took Hitler down. It would be nice if you included that part. Again "America - the other side of the story".

Dan

[ayin jade]

Bless those who bless you, curse those who curse you............the words in the bible pertaining to Israel.

Like it or not, they are still His chosen people. Yes they are spiritually blinded and yes they are not saved unless they believe in Jesus, but they are not a nation to turn our backs on.

[ayin jade]

You exhibit a lot of anger towards Israel, in this thread as well as others. Why are you so angry?

[Guest shiloh357]

We have been accused of masterminding world domination, blamed for communism, persecuted with pogroms inquisitions and all manner of persecutions culminating with Hitler's madness. During this time, we were refused our rights in courts of law, and were prohibited from owning business or even being involved in the politics of the nations that we took up residence. All of this in nations whose majority population claimed the name of Christ.

By the way, my Father and 2 brothers fought against Hitler. 2 of those great men were wounded. One(who was decorated twice) came back and suffered from a head injury for the rest of his life. He could not drive or hold a job. The other was shot up. I can get the records and post them if you would like. I don't want you to even entertain the idea that I am making this up. My father lays in Veterens Memorial cemetary in Houston along with many other of his brothers who stood up against Hiltler. We are Gentiles. It was horrible what Hitler did to 6million Jews and 46 million Gentiles. Hitler was an Animal, but God through AMERICA and AMERICANs amongst other great GENTILE\ CHRISTIAN nations took Hitler down. It would be nice if you included that part. Again "America - the other side of the story".

Dan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My issue is not with America. I am responding to what you said to Shimshon. I am explaining why as Jews who believe in Jesus, that we are not offended at Israel's rejection of us, since we understand better than someone like yourself what Jews have gone through. Honestly, it takes a Jew to understand a Jew, sometimes.

I am intimately acquainted with anti-Semitism. I have faced this kind of hatred at the hands of so-called "Christians." I know what rejection is like. I know what Jewish people have been through, first hand. Even so, I still have not had to pay the price that many more of my ancestors paid for being Jews in so called, "Christian" nations.

So, I can understand why the Jews in Israel are not keen on people like Shimshon and I becoming citizens. Their rejection of us, is based upon what people who supposedly claimed the Name of Christ did to them. Many of those Jews living in Israel are either holocaust survivors, or the children of Holocaust survivors.

Israel was created as a safe haven for Jews who practice the Jewish religion. That is fair, and Israel is within their right to make it that way. That in no way impedes people like Shimshon and I from loving the Jewish people who reject us. It is unfortunate, but we live with it. I am not trying to speak for Shimshon at all, but I think we Jews tend to think alike on issues like this.

BTW, I am very thankful of what our boys did to Hitler. I am eternally grateful for the vets of our country and the price they paid to stop Hitler and his war machine and end the nightmare. But, that is not material to my repsonse to you.

Is it "just" for them to accept taxdollars and military hardware from people like Shimshon who they reject?

You will have to ask Shimshon. If he is willing for his tax dollars to go to Israel's defense, then the answer would be "yes." But that is up to Shimshon, I cannot speak for him.

At some point I wouldn't mind taking some of the tax money we send all over the world and diverting towards our own country's needs. There is plenty of God's work that can happen here in the U.S.. Is that so wrong?

I wish Israel would voluntarily cut themselves off of our foreign aid. The reason why? Because then the gloves would come off, and Israel would not be have to care so much what the US State Dept. says or does. As it stands, Israel has some politicians who are too afraid to stand up to the US because they want to hold on to the aid we send. Israel doesn't need our aid. They are a 21st century nation, and one of the most innovative countries in the world today.

I want Israel to get off our aid so they can figh terrorism the way it needs to be fought. I want a Prime Minister elected in Israel who will put Jewish people ahead of the policies of other governments, including the US government. I want to see Israel tell the world up which orifice they can shove their peace plans, and road maps, and respond to terrorism with such ferocity that Palestinian Authority & Co. will be begging and pleading with Israel to make it stop. Oh, if Jews had only been better fighters, world history would have been so much different than it is now.

[dgolvach]

You exhibit a lot of anger towards Israel, in this thread as well as others. Why are you so angry?

I have no beef with Israel. I have a beef with people who benefit from living in America but put other countries first and openly declare that they would turn on America if America dosen't fit into their particular debatable Bible scenereo. Move to the other country.

I wish Israel would voluntarily cut themselves off of our foreign aid. The reason why? Because then the gloves would come off, and Israel would not be have to care so much what the US State Dept. says or does. As it stands, Israel has some politicians who are too afraid to stand up to the US because they want to hold on to the aid we send. Israel doesn't need our aid. They are a 21st century nation, and one of the most innovative countries in the world today.

So let me ask you, does one have to send billions of dollars to Israel to not be an enemy? Send me money or your not my friend?

My issue is not with America. I am responding to what you said to Shimshon. I am explaining why as Jews who believe in Jesus, that we are not offended at Israel's rejection of us, since we understand better than someone like yourself what Jews have gone through. Honestly, it takes a Jew to understand a Jew, sometimes.

Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Jesus was a Jew and he didn't seem to care much about what ethnic club you belong to. He didn't reject you. Isn't that enough?