Stages of True Christian growth

[gordon7777]

3 minutes ago, cantankerous5 said:

i do not agree. No one is put on this earth to end up in Hell. If he ends up in Hell, it is because of his own evil. And salvation is a process (not sure if you believe in osas?).. "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians?) 

"He who endures to the end will be saved"

 

Even those who "will be saved" are not saved

 

but will be...

 

the passage says "He who endures to the end WILL BE," not IS)

 

 

Cam I add a thought for you, on your thought, if one is given a conscience by God, they will work out their salvation with fear and trembling, if not, maybe they will not ?

[cantankerous5]

9 minutes ago, gordon7777 said:

Cam I add a thought for you, on your thought, if one is given a conscience by God, they will work out their salvation with fear and trembling, if not, maybe they will not ?

everyone has a conscience, except those who have deliberately done away with it. I am not sure what your point is??

[gordon7777]

First part for conscience, that Go has to call us, and make us worthy of HIs calling, our conscience cannot call itself..

 

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Next, the faith is held only in a good conscience. Like Apostle Paul, chosen by God and then has a conscience without offence..

1 Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

Acts 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.

 

For the ones God calls, they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience is witness, because now God gave the new heart and Spirit which is HIs new covenant..

 

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

 

Unto the pure all is pure, and unbelieving has nothing pure, including their conscience it is defiled. Baptism is receiving the Holy Spirit, only when faith is given us by Gods Spirit, that is the good conscience we do not have.

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

If anyone defiles, they are destroyed, with God there is no defiling,  the unbelieving fail of the grace of God and are defiled, this is the conscience, it cannot work out anything with fear and trenbling. ONly when the law is written in the heart by the Spirit can the undefiled walk in the law of the Lord, othewise they cannot be undefiled in their conscience when unbeliving, which is no conscience in them=morally abandoned also..

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

1 Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Psalm 119:1 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord.

[gordon7777]

If you want to talk about God, why not show the words you say, like I do, is it not an honest way ?

 

What scripture says men deliberately do away with their conscience ?

 

We see they have an evil conscience, and we see only God gives that good conscience.

[Neighbor]

28 minutes ago, cantankerous5 said:

i do not agree. No one is put on this earth to end up in Hell. If he ends up in Hell, it is because of his own evil. And salvation is a process (not sure if you believe in osas?).. "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians?) 

"He who endures to the end will be saved"

 

Even those who "will be saved" are not saved

 

but will be...

 

the passage says "He who endures to the end WILL BE," not IS)

 

 

Hi that is okay with me, agreement is not necessary, fact it gets rather boring, eh?

I do understand the creator to create as He sees fit. I do see that th ecreator created a pharoah to serve a particular purpose of God as example. I do see at least twelve judges bought by God to the iraelites to serve  his good purposes and I see the nation's people falling back again and again and yet again to evil ways.

I state that at this time I do not endorse OSAS nor do I endorse that one may lose their salvation. I do understand that my name has been known to God from before the beginning, that I was given to Jesus from before I was even conceived in my mother's womb, and that Jesus has provided the total redemption  for my sin and  the penalty under the curse over Adam and all of his descendants. And that of those given to jesus the Good Shepherd to be of His flock, He does not lose a one.

What I do object to in OSAS is the OS part. For I have always been saved, as foreknown and predestined by God- only I didn't know of it (I didn't even know of God). God always has known of me and that I am His, given to His Son Jesus who is God,and by whom I have been created.

[cantankerous5]

2 minutes ago, gordon7777 said:

First part for conscience, that Go has to call us, and make us worthy of HIs calling, our conscience cannot call itself..

 

2 Thessalonians 1:11 

i have read the entire Bible, so there is really no need to throw tons of Scripture at me.

I do not go by "the Bible alone" because I am a human being prone to false interpretations thereof. I have read the Bible but some things in the Old Testament are not terribly understand-worthy. In any case, Jesus said that He would establish (build) a Church. He did not say anything about mass-produced Bibles that would come along only in the 15th century (when the printing press was invented). The Church existed long b4 that. The Church came to us humans @ Pentacost when the Holy Spirit descended on the 12 (and Mary, Jesus's mother). The Church interprets the Bible. Surely you agree that Jesus would not allow His Words to be interpreted by mere human beings, inspired as they may be? Most of the New Testament is fairly clear, so much so that a child can understand it. But there are a few things not so easily understood. That is one reason we need a Church, the Church Christ founded, which, argue all you want, is the Catholic Church. 

But the Catholic Church "aint what it used to be" so I don't really know what to say when i speak of this Church. I love the OLD Catholic Church, the one that taught about Hell and how easy it is to get there. Today, it seems no priest wants to talk about Hell (and there are other issues i have also). But this is probably the issue that disturbs me the most, how a lot of priest seem to be living for this world alone.. They act like everyone else, instead of acting like.. well, their black robes are black to represent "death to the world" and yet a lot of them seem very worldly, at least at times.. I don't know.. The devil attacks all Christians so none of this should surprise anyone. I feel I am not entirely Catholic anymore, except that.. actually, I am the true Catholic.. many of the priests i have known.. well, i don't want to judge but just from experience.. whatever.. 

[cantankerous5]

7 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

I state that at this time I do not endorse OSAS nor do I endorse that one may lose their salvation.

i had to stop there because this does not make sense. You CAN lose salvation, through egregious sin (adultery, fornication, abortion... watching CNN.. [sorry, couldn't help it]) 

you can get it back again.. well, you can get back on the narrow road again.. but yes, you can lose it. You cannot lose it by swearing profusely when people cut you off in traffic or losing patience w/ your spouse (verbally) or whatever.. so maybe that is what you mean

and dont tell me that those who have accepted Christ and been born-again are never, ever tempted to commit those  "big" sins (of fornication or adultery or abortion).. not hardly. 

The Bible says (New T) that we are judged according to our DEEDS

and "Faith without works is dead" says James 2:12-

Edited June 10, 2019 by cantankerous5
clarity

[gordon7777]

13 minutes ago, cantankerous5 said:

i have read the entire Bible, so there is really no need to throw tons of Scripture at me.

I do not go by "the Bible alone" because I am a human being prone to false interpretations thereof. I have read the Bible but some things in the Old Testament are not terribly understand-worthy. In any case, Jesus said that He would establish (build) a Church. He did not say anything about mass-produced Bibles that would come along only in the 15th century (when the printing press was invented). The Church existed long b4 that. The Church came to us humans @ Pentacost when the Holy Spirit descended on the 12 (and Mary, Jesus's mother). The Church interprets the Bible. Surely you agree that Jesus would not allow His Words to be interpreted by mere human beings, inspired as they may be? Most of the New Testament is fairly clear, so much so that a child can understand it. But there are a few things not so easily understood. That is one reason we need a Church, the Church Christ founded, which, argue all you want, is the Catholic Church. 

But the Catholic Church "aint what it used to be" so I don't really know what to say when i speak of this Church. I love the OLD Catholic Church, the one that taught about Hell and how easy it is to get there. Today, it seems no priest wants to talk about Hell (and there are other issues i have also). But this is probably the issue that disturbs me the most, how a lot of priest seem to be living for this world alone.. They act like everyone else, instead of acting like.. well, their black robes are black to represent "death to the world" and yet a lot of them seem very worldly, at least at times.. I don't know.. The devil attacks all Christians so none of this should surprise anyone. I feel I am not entirely Catholic anymore, except that.. actually, I am the true Catholic.. many of the priests i have known.. well, i don't want to judge but just from experience.. whatever.. 

Now all that information you received from the printing press, making these bibles, otherwise how do you know what you are talking about ? Jesus said the the Jews to search the scriptures, He did not say search the priests ?

The church is Jesus Christ, and the foundation of the prophets and Holy Apostle, as per the bible, these have right to teach us, nobody else is included, from Gods testimony, but believe in it anyway.

The catholic church came from Romans who put Christ to death, then when their kingdom was ending they took a sign of a cross on their shields, but these are still soldiers murdering people, it is babes on innocent blood they shed in murder including inquisitions.

As for your words on the scripturs I sent, would Christ despise HIs own word, no only a man would..

Ephesians 2: ¹⁹ Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;²⁰ And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;²¹ In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:²² In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

Your name gives it all away..

 

 

Proverbs 21:19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.

[gordon7777]

Anyone who does not do as the Apostles in the bible only, is commanded to be avoided..

 

They serve not our Lord, but cause divisions and offences contrary to what is taught and exampled by the Lords Holy Apostles, in the Holy scriptures, and their fair speeches mean nothing, they serve their own belly not God

 

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

[Blood Bought 1953]

9 hours ago, alaric_w said:

Wow this is good. I agreed with you. 

But in between step 8 and 9, there are a few more steps which I am trying to bring across with this posting. 

Stage 8.......Jesus saves you and puts His Holy Spirit in you

Stage 8.1....Thought that I need to follow the law to please God (Jesus done his part, I also must do my part by pleasing him)

stage 8.2....The more I follow the law, the more I understood how hopeless I am and God is never please with him if he assess me based on my human works

stage 8.3....Stop trying and understood that God see me as Jesus and nothing pleases God more than Jesus. God is already pleased with me the moment I accepted Jesus, Jesus has done it all. (1 John 4:17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.)

Stage 9.......God uses a combination of Grace and Chastisement to mold you into the image of His  Son

Stage 10......You “ find yourself” living a life that pleases God, without having to work at it (This is the part where I sleep soundly while Jesus drive my car)

 

Excellant additions...you improved my list.....don’t do it again !    Lol.....