CWJ Posted January 2, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 WIP...I didn't spin. I still mean that it is 100% to win! I did NOT condemn in any way about throwing a dollar away. Now who's spinning?? I surely didn't say it was a responsibility to monitor anyone. Only a responsibility to call out sin when it's there and identify it. Can you attack my stance with scriptures...which I still think are the guiding rule. Where exactly does the Word say seeking a business "profit" is a sin?? I found this; James4:13..."Go to now, ye that say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, AND GET GAIN:.......(15)....For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that." Looks OK to seek a profit. Just ask it to be the Lord's will. (notice the gain here is from the honest work ethic) If we don't, then we must be content with food and raiment. (paying the bills) So...I am called self-righteous...even evil? My interpretations based on biblical precepts of understanding are now "personal interpretations"?? I am now accused of placing myself as the Holy Spirit in this issue?? WOW.....WIP....when one cannot by scripture prove another wrong in a debate...THEN....personal attacks on character is an obvious tangent!!!!!! So.....there are no verses condemning gambling?? What is the CHARACTER of gambling?? What COMES ALONG WITH IT?? A name is a name, but the character of something IS the essence!! When deciding what the Word of God says on an issue, shouldn't it BE USED TO DECIDE, instead of BEAUTIFUL WORDS OF REASONING from an imperfect person?? ( because the Word is perfect) So....now the one who uses the Word to back their claims is self-righteous.....and the one who has flowing beautiful words of reasoning (without relying on scripture) is refreshing?? In my next post I will endeavor to be apt to teach. Not judgemental, but identifying a sinful activity, eliminating any seemingly "gray" areas by pointing out THE CHARACTER OF THIS ACTION! Then comparing the CHARACTER of lottery/gambling to scriptures. Blessings to all, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted January 2, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2003 Where exactly does the Word say seeking a business "profit" is a sin?? 1 Timothy 6:7,8 - For we brought nothing into the world, so that we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with these. Philippians 4:11- For I have learned to be content with whatever I have. Matthew 6:25 - Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink..... Matthew 6:34 - So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring wories of it's own. We are clearly to concentrate on today and give no thought to tomorrow. Will profit feed and clothe you today?? So, you see, I too can make any Scripture fit my desire to believe something. God didn't say I shouldn't strive to make a profit. OR......hmmmm......did he?? Based on the above verses, if you are striving to make a profit as a cushion for tomorrow, then you are in sin. Bet you wouldn't like it if someone told you that. I said: What does that have to do with the evil and self righteous attitude of some who condemn a Godly and righteous man who does not make gambling his god? And you responded: So...I am called self-righteous...even evil? Where in that did I say you were evil? Are you saying that you do, indeed, condemn a Godly and righteous man who buys a ticket in whatever form? Or buys stock? Or takes part in any other form of "gambling" that you think God calls a sin? I did NOT condemn in any way about throwing a dollar away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted January 2, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanakila Posted January 3, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 400 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2003 I didn't quote scripture exactly but instead used the teaching method called paraphrase. Duh. Your scriptures can be used to say that wasting money on anything is blatent sin. The thing is I have the same Holy Spirit living in me helping me interpret scriptures and I just see legalism rearing its ugly head again. Yeah I know you don't like being called that CWJ but if the shoe fits. What I am saying is I recommend highly that you read a book I read about 10 years ago entitled: The Pharisee's guide to total holiness. (Sarcasm intended) This book basically teaches (from the Bible) that legalism is sinful and exactly what the Pharisees did with Jesus. Jesus ate and drank (wine, alcohol by the way) with publicans (robberbarons) and sinners (prostitutes, former demon possessed individuals ect. The Pharisees said he was sinning by doing that ( sin of associating with sinnners and supposed sinful behavior). Jesus didn't sin by doing this and neither does the Christian who happens to take a drink of wine with their friends or buy a lottery ticket ect. Why not pick on the pet sins of most of us, like coveting, gluttony, laziness, ect. Yeah those are boring I know but those are more of a problem than the lottery is for most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 3, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 3, 2003 I wasn't refering to you lanakila about the non-scripture thing. Do I detect some venom? Y'all seem to have missed my point. Everyone here seems to be jumping at a "judgementalism" by me! I am ONLY attempting to IDENTIFY what is a sin. Didn't Jesus do that too? Legalism=works and rules to obtain salvation Obedience=fruit of salvation (which is often called "legalism") lanakila, I feel it's only necessary to read the scriptures and pray, thus the Holy Spirit may teach me, and not men. 1John2:27..."But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you; but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him." Drinking wine was/is not sinful, getting drunk was/is. Jesus did not get drunk. He was showing we must go to the sinners to present the Truth. As your example is showing, the real pharisees always scream when the Truth is being revealed. Answer my thread on "Character Analysis". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanakila Posted January 3, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 400 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2003 Your definition of legalism is lacking there CWJ. You may want to check out that book. What I am saying is some things are obviously sin, while others like the one we are discussing, aren't so obvious. In fact if it were obvious we wouldn't be discussing it would we. If it were obvious sin (mentioned by name in the Bible) than I would agree with you. I will never say homosexuality or adultery aren't sin. Its the ones we Christians add, that aren't clearly taught that become legalism CWJ. That is why I said if God is silent we should be too and let our own consciences and the Holy Spirit be our guide. I agree that the Holy Spirit guides through God's Word. But there is no scripture that says thou shalt not pertaining to the lottery or gambling. The Biblical definition of legalism is placing certain things against God's Law that God didn't put. Coleman in the book I mentioned calls it fence building. An example is God says in the Bible: Don't put evil things before your eyes (guard your heart in other words). Legalism says throw out your tv, don't go to movie theaters, ect ect. God says don't be a drunkard. Legalism says don't even go where alcohol can be purchased. God says be modest, while legalism says women should not wear pants, or jewelry or makeup ect ect. This is true legalism CWJ and what I am talking about. Has nothing at all to do with salvation except that adding to God's Word causes a church full of lost legalistic people, like the one my hubby pastored.( not all were lost actually, just a small minority) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted January 3, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 3, 2003 Lanakila, I understand where your coming from, I too once attended an IBC. But I have since been taught by the Holy Spirit more clearly what our liberty in Christ means. In a sense it is liberty from the captiveness of sin. Just because the Bible doesn't say "lottery is sin" doesn't mean it's not either. Remember, the enemy can appear as an angel of light. This warning shows us we must examine carefully what we fellowship with or become partakers with. And the thing about TV and movies, have you noticed the moral decline thrown in front of us through this medium? We are to be the salt of this world, not a blend. If we look, act, and speak like the world; how can we flavor it differently? No..., none of us will reach that "perfect" level of obedience. But..., why not look into the truth of the bounderies? Lanakila, have you read my "Character Analysis" thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest okiejack Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I don't think there is anything wrong with buying "a" lottery ticket. But I wouldn't make a practice of it. Gambling is a game of chance based on a beliefe in the exsistence of randomness. As Christians we know GOD planned our reality and there is no such thing as randomness and there for no such thing as chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts