Guest tarrier Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Hello Kiwi What good advice you've received! Praise the Lord for all of you on this board. You've all helped me in more ways than you will ever know. With regard to problem 1: Stealing is stealing ~ time or money, it doesn't matter. Are these people Christian? if they aren't, there's no way you will convince/ convict them they are wrong, even though they know they are wrong in their heart. Thing is, they don't want to give into their conscience. I've had many situations like this in my life. I hate injustice. I lose sleep over it. Seriously! I'm learning, however, that sometimes, you just have to let things be. I know you know that it is none of your business, but it still doesn't alter the fact of how strongly you feel about this, does it? And it is because you actually care that you are plagued with this. Perhaps you could pray specifically that the Lord take this particular burden from your heart, so that you will be freed up spiritually to do other great things and live life to the full for Him? With regard to problem 2: Your friend is fooling herself if she thinks nothing will happen during the six days she has planned. The heart is desperately wicked, who can know it? All the good intentions in the world will be blown away if and when the Englishman arrives. Does she seriously think that taking her one year old baby along is sufficient as a chaperone? Puleese! In this case, because your friend is a Christian, you do have the right to admonish her. To 'judge' her, if you will. And yes, she should know better, but like all of us, she is up against the flesh, the world and the devil. What comes to mind is the fact that her husband is not a Christian (hope I've understood correctly?) Perhaps you could remind her that he could be won (for Christ) ".... by the conversation of his wife....." When she is found out, (because the truth always surfaces!) this will put him off Christianity even more. Sad to say that because you are privy to this affair (because it has already happened in her heart so it is an affair, it is adultery), you are involved. I always think of this involvement as a no-win situation. If you attempt to advise her against it, she will probably continue to justify her actions and eventually turn on you. If you attempt to tell the husband, he will turn on you, thinking that you are in cahoots with his wife. If your friend is a Christian, she would surely know what you have to do. Take another Christian with you and talk with her about her sin. Then, gasp! comes taking it to the church. Horrors! If you can't do either of these (I know how hard it is.....) perhaps it would be best to cut ties with her as long as she continues down this path of not only her own destruction, but that of her family, which God has ordained. Bless you, Kiwi, may the Lord give you wisdom on how to deal with this. These are just my thoughts.... Blessings, Tarrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted February 14, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 270 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/22/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14, 2003 Thanks, Tarrier for your thoughts. I've been praying for the Lord to show me what to do/how to act/what to say AND to help me "let it go"...I feel much better with both situations now. I can only be responsible for myself. I don't like the fact that I was seeing how "judgemental" I was becoming. That's what was bothering me most. I am better now. Being able to verbalize the situations has really helped!! and, Shadow, dude....I'm a 'sis' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow2b Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Thanks, Tarrier for your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted February 17, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2003 My two cents: I know it seems like a "judemental" reactiond on my part and I know we are never to judge. This is not true, but a common lie bought into by Christians who have it shoved down their throats by the world. The Bible is clear that we are to judge. We are given absolutes, rights and wrongs. And your coworkers are stealing and have no integrity, and your friend is living in continual, willful sin. "Judging"? Yes. Wrong? No. As for work - what jumped out at me is the people who constantly like to remind you of these people's abuses. (Especially the personnel/financial person) People who keep the gossip going are not your friends and aren't doing you any favors. When they start "reminding" you of the grievances of the coworkers, immediately change the conversation, or politely but firmly say - "Oh, that's not my concern. That's their thing to answer for, not mine". And walk away if they persist in gossipping. As for it frustrating you - I can relate, I would be frustrated to. But you've got to give it to the Lord - give HIM your frustrations and ask Him to help you concentrate on you being the best employee you can be. I know it hurts to see others getting away with stuff we would like to have. But, we haven't been promised a sweet deal - we have to suck it up sometimes. Sorry I don't have more pleasurable advice! As for your friend - IMO, anything other than making it clear to her that she claims to be a Christian, yet is continually sinning and thus in danger for her soul is, IMO, enabling her. If you have shown her the truth of her behaviour and she does not repent, do not discuss it with her anymore - all she wants is someone that will validate what she is doing - and you even just listening will be taken as validation by her. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted February 21, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 270 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/22/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 21, 2003 Hi WIP, Thanks for your opinions. The Bible is clear that we are to judge. We are given absolutes, rights and wrongs. And your coworkers are stealing and have no integrity, and your friend is living in continual, willful sin. "Judging"? Yes. Wrong? No. Do you have scriptures for this? I could really use some references right now. I can relate, I would be frustrated to. But you've got to give it to the Lord - give HIM your frustrations and ask Him to help you concentrate on you being the best employee you can be. I know it hurts to see others getting away with stuff we would like to have. But, we haven't been promised a sweet deal - we have to suck it up sometimes. Sorry I don't have more pleasurable advice! yes-that's what I've been doing: just praying and "letting it go" there's really nothing else I can do. I appreciate everyone's input. I just have a personal battle/but it's lessening, thankfully! If you have shown her the truth of her behaviour and she does not repent, do not discuss it with her anymore - all she wants is someone that will validate what she is doing - and you even just listening will be taken as validation by her. I'm not sure I agree with this as far as my enbaling her. She is more of an "acquaintance" that has grown into "friendship" as far as she is concerned. For some reason, God keeps bringing her back into my life and I keep praying that, as God promises, I will say the right things. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think ignoring this blaring issue is the answer either. Thanks to all of you. Kiwi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted February 23, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2003 Hi Kiwi- As far as Scriptures - no, not specific ones unless I sit down and start looking for them. What I was thinking of was the the Scriptures we all know that say stealing is wrong - since the Scripture clearly says something is wrong - then it is absolutely and without a doubt WRONG. So, we are permitted to JUDGE that thing as wrong. My point was that "judgement" is not a bad word. Our Lord made judgements. Try driving down the road at 80 miles per hour, not wearing your seat belt and believe me, you will be "judged" for it and punished. As for the 'enabling' issue - I can only give you my own example. I had a very dear friend - close as a sister. She started getting involved with someone on the internet. (She was married). She laughed and giggled about it with me, asked for "advice" - (trust me, if they are a Christian, they are NOT asking for advice, but validity and acceptance of their sin - they KNOW what is right and wrong) - I so wanted to give her what she wanted so I wouldn't "make waves" in our friendship - but knew I would be sinning against God if I did - so I told myself from the get go that I would do what was right and not what would keep our friendship - no matter the consequences - it was hard - anyway, I not-so-subtly changed the subject each time and/or quietly affirmed what God's word said about the whole thing - and she quickly stopped enjoying it and giggling about it and came to her senses and even better - she later thanked me because it didn't go any further than it did. God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi Posted February 24, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 270 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/22/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 24, 2003 Thanks, WIP for your thoughts and clarifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyr Posted April 4, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 438 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/13/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1969 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Kiwi, First, concerning the employment issue, I would like to briefly paraphrase a story I heard Tony Evans tell once. When he was in college/seminary, he had to take a night job to pay the bills. He went to work for Greyhound bus company. Since most of the "big" bosses weren't there late at night, a lot of his coworkers would take naps after break while at work. Tony didn't know what to do, and he didn't tell. He just continued to do the best job he could. After a while, all the ones, including his supervisor, that took naps had been fired. He found out later that the management had sent in "spies" to pose as passengers. Tony Evans dedication to doing the Godly thing, that is the best job possible, ended up with him getting promoted to supervisor. For the second issue, you could go directly to the Bible. I can't recall the exact passage right now, but it is concerning Christian people living with unrepentant sin. The pattern is to go to them in love, and tell them what the Bible says about their lack of faithfulness. If this doesn't work, go back in love with one or two other close friends with the same plea. If that doesn't work, then break off fellowship with her until she repents. As I said, I can't remember the exact passage, but I will try to find it. Also, her husband definitely deserves to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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