Salvation...Can it be lost???

[sail2awe]

The Eternal Security of the Believer

Is it scriptural proof, or is it fiction? Among professing Christians, there is a division on this subject. There are some who believe that once saved, they would put it, always saved. There are others which say, you could be saved today and lost tomorrow. The Armenians would take that view. The Calvinist would take the former view, once saved always saved.

For myself, I am always distrustful of schools for interpretation, and I would say that we who are as the noble Bereans, that is to say, we who are testing all we hear and say by the Word of God, always hesitate to attach ourselves to any school. We will extract all we can from any thought, but the final test is, What sayeth the Lord in Scripture. And so it is with this subject, and with that, let us bring it before the bar of God, and see if it teaches one or the other. We had better start off, with this fact, that the Scripture teaches collaboration in three tenses, Past Present Future.

PAST

[Tari]

What happens if I am saved and accidently just happen to commit adultery or some type of fornication or say murder? Does this mean I am still saved. Also what axactly do I have to do to begin with to consider myself saved?

[sail2awe]

2Cor 5:18

And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2Cor 5:19

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Christ said, 'it is finished', one day He shall say, 'it is done'.

Now, the question asked, is can you undo the finished work of Christ? Can you? Are you that powerful? Several quotes in the above post declares you cannot.

God, in His infinite wisdom did not leave our Salvation up to us, for it is not called the Salvation of Sail2awe, but the Salvation of God. It is called a 'free gift'.

Some say its not really free, you have to work for it, but we read it is 'by the faith of Him':

Eph 3:12

In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Gal 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Phil 3:9

. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Heb 12:2

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Eph 2:8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

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Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Rom 5:20

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Rom 5:21

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 6:1

. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Rom 6:2

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 6:3

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Rom 6:5

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:

Rom 6:6

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:7

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

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Eph 2:1

. And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

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Col 3:2

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Col 3:3

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Col 3:4

When Christ, [who is] our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

[Tari]

Okay earlier when I posted:

Instead of worrying about your salvation being assured, why not worry about repenting of your sins? Why not worry about committing your life to Christ and following His teachings throughout your life?

I guess that's what started this all in the past few hours. So in other words was what I wrote wrong? I just don't understand what to do if I was wrong by assuming those things.

Gosh, maybe I should just sit back and smoke crack instead. Since it was wrong of me to think about doing all those other things.

[sail2awe]

Hving come into the conversation 10 pages late, I can mainly state here, that the word "repent" in no way represents the Greek word metanoeo. It is a total misrepresentation. An important truth is lost as long as this word is used to cover it up.

The Greek verb metanoeo, which is always mistranslated "repent," is made up of a combination of two simple, easily understood words. These are meta, which means "after," and noia which means "mind." All who labor in the healing arts, such as doctors and nurses, will know at once the meaning of meta and noia. Since this word is a verb, it would mean to a Greek of the first century "have the after-mind;" and the noun of course would name the result of such an action, which would be "after-mindedness."

John the Baptist came as the Lord's forerunner proclaiming the nearness of God's government, making ready for the appearance of the One on Whose shoulders the government would rest (Isa. 9:6). John did not say, "Repent of your sins"; or, "Repent, or you will be lost forever"; or, "Repent and you will be saved." The sole reason given as to why they should submit was that God's government was impending. When sovereignty is assumed and a government imposes itself upon men, they can either submit or resist. The demand made by John fit the situation perfectly at that time. Divine government was coming; it was impending; and all in Israel were called upon to submit, to yield, to offer no resistance, to make no moves contrary to it, to ease themselves of every factor that might block their entrance into it (See Matt. 18:8,9), to wait for further orders from the One who would be the King of the Kingdom.

Their submission, being voluntary and in advance of the actual establishment of God's government upon the earth, would result in a similarity of mind between God and His people Israel. They were to yield their minds irrevocably to the power of another.

That was all directed towards Israel for her to have the aftermind and to turn to the Lord. They, rather their priests, were the enemy of this aftermindedness. They had known the Lord, had been prepaired for centuries to receive Him when He came, and it is them alone to whom it is given to have this aftermind, for they alone had first turned from the Lord. As for us non Jews, are we given the instructions to repent? We did not know God did we? Wasn't it Israel who are the only called out nation of covenant? Wasn't it to Israel the Lord would say, go not into the way of the gentiles? and Christ who said He came not but for the lost of the house of Israel? and that He had more to tell them but that they could not bear it, however after He is risen, He would send the Comforter who would show things to come?

Today, as my studies have led me, people everywhere say that when the gentiles of Acts were used to provoke Israel that she might bear her fruit and receive the kiingdom and the time of refreshing, that we are those same gentiles who stand outside the synogague awaiting for the Jews to hear first. But the Bible actually says the gentiles were not given an apostle until after all Israel had heard, which was the commission given in Mark16.

CAn the gentiles, that is to say the nations, <same word/ethnos> can we then have a message of instruction before God gives us a 'sent' one? I don't think we should amalgamate the word of God like that. I think Paul tells us plainly, be it known therefore unto you, that the Salvation of God is sent unto the gentiles and that they will hear it. <Acts 28. 28>

Then Paul tells for the first time in all the Bible, of a people, called gentiles, whom God had 'chosen from before the foundation of the world', but to what end? Well, for the first time we read God has a heavenly people who will have their sphere of enjoyment in the heavens above all heavens Eph 1.3. This was never revealed in the OT, or during the Acts. Not until after the hope of Israel was set aside <for a time>.

So, we, mere mortals like Israel, have much learning to learn, and can never fully plumb the depths of the word of God. We should be ever learning.

So...

What is truth for today, what is the instruction given to us called gentiles? What pleases the Lord, and do we seek to please Him? The HolySpirit sets forth this prayer:

in Eph. 1:17, we have His prayer set forth in these words: "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in

THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM."

This, then, must be our greatest need: A true knowledge of God.

If the Holy Spirit thus puts it before all other things, it must be because it is more important than any other thing; yea, than all others put together.

This, it is, that lies at the foundation of the Christian Faith; at the threshold of Christian life. It is the essence of all trust.

If we do not trust the Lord, then it is because we do not know Him. Thus we see how this knowledge of God is our greatest need; the very first step of our Christian course. Our trust will ever be in proportion to our knowledge.

If we really knew Him, and believed that He knows better than we do what is good for us, there would be no effort whatever, but only a blessed irrepressible desire for His will.

In Col. 1:9,10, we have it applied for our correction and instruction. Carefully weigh the words. "For this cause, we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire" --- Desire what? "that ye might be filled with the knowledge (the noun from No. 2, i.e., acquired knowledge) of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding." Why? For what purpose? To what end? "THAT YE MAY WALK WORTHY OF THE LORD UNTO ALL PLEASING, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD."

Then, to walk worthy of the Lord, I must know Him? Exactly so.

How are we to discover the things He approves?

ONLY FROM HIS WORD.

There, and there alone can we get to know Him. There alone shall we learn the fullness of the Spirit's prayer for us in Eph. 1:7; and the blessed practical outcome of it in Col. 1:9,10.

No man has this knowledge of God intuitively. No minister can even help in imparting it, except in and by the ministry of that Word. His own thoughts are valueless. Only so far as he enables us to understand that Word can he be of any assistance to us. This is the one great reason why the written Word is given to us. It is not given merely as a book of general information, or of refernece; but it is given to make known the invisible God.

One point I am trying to make, is given us by the apostle to the gentiles where it is written, hold fast the form of sound words. This means we should have a good concordance and a KJB to use it by, looking up the way words are used in the Bible, allowing God to set His own definitions, as He is not using websters even a little bit. So when we speak of repentance, we should do well to leave our concepts aside and allow God to explain Himself to us using His words as He has used them in the contexts which He has given them.

I am defiinately not saying anyone is wrong, more to the point that there is always more to understand. I know for myself, I always learn more, no matter how many times I have read the same verse, for I come to God's word as a child, ready to see what Father has to say, and as I mature, those things which I had to put on the shelf when I understood not, are awaiting my use on that shelf, because I didn't cast them away as untruths just because I didn't understand them, I trusted in the Lord that I should come to know His message more clearly as I come to the knowledge, rather the acknowldgment of the Him.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter" (Prov 25:2)

And ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me WITH ALL YOUR HEART.(Jeremiah 29:13)

Edited August 8, 2005 by sail2awe

[halifaxchristian]

Okay earlier when I posted:

Instead of worrying about your salvation being assured, why not worry about repenting of your sins? Why not worry about committing your life to Christ and following His teachings throughout your life?

I guess that's what started this all in the past few hours. So in other words was what I wrote wrong? I just don't understand what to do if I was wrong by assuming those things.

Gosh, maybe I should just sit back and smoke crack instead. Since it was wrong of me to think about doing all those other things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If smoking crack is more of a joy to you than the Saviour...than you are not saved. I am not saying that a saved person cannot fall by walking in the flesh...but I am saying that the spirit inside of that individual, redeemed by the Lamb and kept by the Spirit, will eventually lead this person into God's will for him/her. Let me ask you a question: if you actually did believe in Eternal Salvation...would you go out and smoke crack tomorrow??? I'd guess not. It all boils down to motivation. Is yours love for Christ, or concern for self???

God bless.

[halifaxchristian]

sail2awe...THANKYOU, THANKYOU, THANKYOU AND AMEN BROTHER!!!!!

[halifaxchristian]

Sail2awe...you have a gift for teaching with clarity and simplicity. Why don't you post here more often??? I think that we could all learn a lot by having your presence here. I hope you will come by more often. If you don't...you might end up in hell !!!!

Nah...just joking...but I hope the threat works!

God bless.

[Tari]

Okay, so tell me what axactly does it take to have eternal salvation? How can I be 100% sure that I will be spending my eternity with our heavenly Father?

[Remnantrob]

because of Jesus sis. But keep working out your salvation through your faith in Christ. That's what I'm gonna keep on doing.