sail2awe

Amo 3:1 Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, Amo 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. Is it not written that the Lord came to save sinners, and in that, it is by "the faith of Him", not the faith of sinners. Mat 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. Luk 10:12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city. More tolerable? Is not to perish and to be destroyed the ultimate punishment. This then suggests that they of that city have not been judged to perish utterly, as there is this statement giving sway to something other than their end being that of eternal punishing or eternal death. Whatever their judgment is to be, there is something far worse, indicating the Hebrew understanding of judgement is not one of eternal punishing coming from and eternal God who is very love itself. It seems to me, a noteworthy and remarkable feature of the apostles and prohetic writings only speak about hell when speaking of Israel. They never write of hell being applied to non Jews. Has this been noted and given it's due consideration? that the apostle of the gentiles never speaks of hell? Well, he does use the word 'hell' once, but since it is properly translated 'grave', so one might miss it: 1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? That is the one place the apostle to the gentiles uses the word hell, and if I am in this company of victory, then the author and the finisher of my faith has not labored in vain. Surely, my Salvation rests in the Lord and not upon any works or lack of works which might come from me, for it is written Psa 74:12 For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth. 2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. Can we trust the faithful stewards who the Holy Spirit deemed worthy to send forth the Salvation message of God, that He came to save sinners, and will remember our sin no more? Is it better to trust men who say differently? 2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Surely if in our defense, the mediator who is standing where the prosecutor would normally stand is more than able to deliever that which He came to do, died, risen, sending forth the word of Salvation to all nations, then it is not a matter of Salvation being a gift from God, but a matter of if we believe it. Surely, when God sends something forth, it shall come to pass. This being so, then perhaps it is a lack of understanding which is natural to mankind which is the problem, and one in which the omnipotent grace and knowledge of God shall have considered before the foundation of the world 2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by (grace ye are saved;) 2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us; we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus Phi 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Phi 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, *and* took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (there is no *and* in the Greek, the verse does not speak of two things, rather an explanation) Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Additionally, Mark 13 coincides with the reading of Rev 6 in side by side comparisons. Luke 21 is somewhat of a side view of Mat24 and Mar13.

My point, even if stated poorly, is this: Most folks can't see the forest for the trees. One can only see the whole forest when taking the necessary steps so as to see the larger view. Simply taking one verse here and one verse there can be a dangerous system, if done in such a way as to prove a point of human understanding. When we stand so close to the picture that we only see the peices, then we only have the pieces in view which are in front of us, and it is these pieces we try to fit into our understanding. Our understanding is just the opposite of what we have the written Word given us for. We have the written Word so that we might have the Lord from heaven's understanding. And that shall not come into view until we have enough of the larger view so as we can allow ourselves to patiently see where every piece jointly fits together. Its like the 20,000 piece puzzle with no picture on the box. We know it is best to find the edges first, then see where the pieces fit afterwards. And when we do not begin the fitting together of all the pieces, there is alot of time envolved in trying to fit them into whatever it is we are currently looking at. Rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Well, those are the words from the LXX found in proverbs instructing that we acknowledge where the Lord from heaven has directed the paths. Dividing - directed. NOW, Acts 28. 25-28, that by the vessel and chosen apostle of the Lord is sent to for the hope of all nations to see what is the fellowship of the mystery, there is cause to rightly divide the word of truth. There was no reason to rightly divide it before, because before the Salvation of God was sent to the nations, there was only one instruction to one nation, BUT NOW the word of truth was given to Paul to complete the word of God, which was kept secret from the foundation of the world. The secret? That there is a heavenly kingdom in which the Lord would call out a chosen company which He chose in Himself BEFORE the foundation of the world. That this chosen company would not only be blessed in the heavenly places, but they would be so blessed without comeing to the Lord through the chosen channel for the nations - Israel. It is this portion of the kingdom having not been revealed to His chosen nation, Israel, who He had chosen SINCE, or FROM the foundation of the world. 2 distinct callings, one chosen since the foundation of the world, one chosen before that occurrence. One is earthly, one is heavenly. These are two different and seperate callings, two companies of called out ones, each having the promise of inheritance and enjoyment in seperate spheres of blessings. One is earthy, and in the earth. One is heavenly and far above all heavens. Then there is the further simple statements which place the overcomers of Israel in that heavenly city, which comes down to the earth from heaven and is strictly Hebrew in character. That makes 3 spheres of blessings, in the earth, in the heavenly city which comes down to the earth in that very land, and in the heavenly places far above all heavens. 1 + 1 + 1 = 3.

This was written in violation of the Sabbath day law. What is the Biblical penalty for violation the Sabbath day law?

The answer to this one is so obvious that it can be easily overlooked, but here it is: Revelation is a letter which is written to the tribes of Israel, who will minister to those nations of population who are 'hurt' of the second death, of who shall need to hear the word of God for a thousand years, albeit in a transfigured body. Revelation means to make known. Revelation is telling of when God again begins to work with His chosen nation and people, who are and have always been, Israel. The difference is that the church of the prison epistles is speaking to a different company of His choosing, who are a company of called out ones from all nations, who have an heavenly kingdom inheritance, whereas Israel has an earthly kingdom inheritance. When we mix these memberships together, is it because God has mixed them together as one? or is it a tradition of man? In otherwords, has God made distinctions from Israel and Gentiles? or of heaven and earth? If He has, would it be correct to honor the Lord by acknowledging these differences, even if churches teach otherwise? or should we forget what the Bible actually states, trading it for what sounds good to us now, that God gave us Israel's kingdom inheritance. If we believe that God has placed us in Israel's kingdom, then why do people think they are going to spend eternity in heaven? Israel is never said to be in heavenly places. Only the church of the mystery, as revealed by the apostle to the gentiles have any verses placing any called out company in heavenly places, so, when people think they are going to heaven, then why do they apply verses to themselves which are written to a people who have an earthly inheritance? IMO, God didn't mix things together. Dispesation of promise: Law - God working with an earthly people who shall have blessings in His earthly kingdom. Dispensation of grace: Grace, not law - God not working with an earthly people, and building up a faith based body who shall have blessings in the heavenly places. Again, the obvious often just escapes us; Satan is angry that God woluld raise up a people from the flesh for an inheritance rather than the most beautiful archangel in all of creation. God gave a higher authority (potentially now, reality in that day of redemption) to the lowly and Satan's already then old man nature only saw pride and self, whereas we know (some know) that even now we do enter into His rest, even now we can be quickened in spirit. It is the new nature which lets the ego and self slide into the past, ever seeking the knowledge of God rather than things on this earth. Yes, it causes death, for it is given for every to die once. Even the Lord from heaven Himself would come in the flesh and do this. Only those fallen angels did not come here by the water and the blood, only those fallen angels are spoken of as violating this LAW, having left there first estate (Jude). John made a big deal about the fact that Christ came by water and blood. The OT makes a big deal about the everlasting Father, God, coming in the flesh to fulfill the law of sin and death, which is really, imo, the only way to let the children learn - through direct experience, of what death is, that chosing life becomes the one important vehicle to the truth of God, who is verily love itself. The whole of the teachings are readily visible, but they are only discerned spiritually. God is Spirit, He maketh His angels spirits. When the body dies the spirit returns to God who gave it. The OT is clear on this, He knew us before we were in the womb, before we were flesh. Christ told Nico that you must physically be born from above, but this cannot be understood carnally, for spiritual things are discerned spiritually. Even the place the angels came when they left their first estate (heavenly body) is called 'the breach of the waters'. You must be born of spiritual water. The 'sea' of people, the merchants of Tyre, the ships of Chittem, the river of life, &c, &c. God reveals and we think we know? How can we know? when we don't know God? How can we trust someone that we do not know? If we do not trust that God has a perfect plan that is far reaching and blessed by grace and love wherein we are offered to enter into His rest even now, if we believe it - when we do not trust God in this: It is obvious. The reason we do not trust, is because we do not know Him. And how can this be, when He wrote His plan of the ages down for us so that we can know Him? Are we so prideful that we think we can just apply His instruction for one people to this people of the dispensation of grace? Are we so prideful that we will just foresake His blessings in the heavenly places because all we can see is what He wrote to the Nation of Israel? He told us where everyone is going to end up AND who they are, so - which letters have God's instructions in them for you? Which letter has your name on the envelope? and which letters have the name of Israel on the envelope?

Hi Remnant, I would like to focus in on one word in the above comment. The word is the cause of so much confusion, so much mixing. The word is 'we'. I realize there are some Hebrew tribal members on this forum, but I cannot say my fathers were in bondage in Egypt when the Hebrews were supernaturally led out from bondage, so I cannot say WE don't sacrifice anymore. Perhaps you are Hebrew though, but for many spiritual babies, the word alludes to a situation which never existed. There is no we as in the nations who ever new God. The same letters (the prison epistles) which were written to the nations, for the hope of you gentiles, which tells us that all Scripture is God breathed, and instructs us to rightly dive the word, reminds us of this fact: Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. Gentiles never had sacrifices to the true and living God, and were never instructed to take upon the Mosaic law at all. Those 4 laws which seemed good to the Holy Spirit were only in place because of necessity. When you or I eat, we don't have to worry about what touched what, but back then, there was no way a Jew could take food from the same table even as a gentile. They baptized everything, ritual washings. That is the only reason the HS institued any rule of law for the gentiles whatsoever, so that by the Lord, the Lord could manuvuer the gentiles into close enough proximity to use them to 'provoke Israel to emmulation', that they might bear the fruit meet for repentance and receive the kingdom and go out unto all nations and execute Mat28.28 (I think it is). That was of course done away with too, when 'all Israel' had heard, and Acts 28.28 occurred. I don't think people realize how dramatic it was for God to step out of Israe's picture, leaving them nothing from the OT to work with, for there is no instruction for them IF they did not receive the kingdom they had been trained to receive. Act 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves. Act 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Act 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him. What words? Look them up. It is heavy duty. They had been following Paul around trying to kill him, trying to undermine his every move, but now, they were blinded. Look at the gravity of that last verse above. After spending all day with the head Jews of the synogagues, the apostle pleads with the Jews, 'for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain' (28.20), And then NOTHING, no man forbidding him. They were blind indeed, and the apostle is then sent to the Gentiles for the first time, the gentiles have an apostle from God sent to them to make known what is their own particular hope. A sure hope that will come to pass. A hope not found in the OT. It cannot possibly have any connection with the OT because this hope has to do with God's calling, just as Israel's hope did, just like the gentiles who were blessed through Israel during the Acts also had a calling connected with a hope. The sabbath days have no mention in our letters save to say don't let the Jews judge you in not keeping the Mosaic law. I mean, even Israel was being instructed to grow up out from the picture words of the OT, which the law, the tabernacle, their dress, food, absolutely everything was a picture or type pointing to the real and the true, and He came. Much more are we gentiles to respect what God was doing with Israel, and much more we should question where are the instructions for gentiles to take upon the Mosaic law, seeing as how Israel was even being instructed to 'continue onto perfection', we should need specific instructions in the like manner as Israel had received if we are to take upon Israel's law, but we don't. They simply are not there. I was going to post more on the cerimonial, but it is all I can do to make my posts as short as they are, belive it or not, lol.

Psa 147:19 He showeth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. Psa 147:20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD. Lev 26:45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD. Lev 26:46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses. Psa 78:5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day? Lev 16:31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute forever. Lev 16:32 And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments: Lev 16:33 And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation. Lev 16:34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses. 2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

ephesian, Hello, and thank you for sharing of the Lord Jesus Christ's good work in your life. Keep up the faith and honesty ephesian, it is refreshing to see, I thank you for it in praising the Lord with you. Re the Salvation of God, recalling:

Wherein is the good news of Christ then? if it isn't in the finished work on the tree? If it is left up to what men must do, then surely we should be most miserable men indeed.

Butero, I feel this was a perfectly true picture story of He who was to come, and too, that this is adequately addressed in the NT: Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshipers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

puleeze, take your letters over a 30 year period and the same study will show you didn't write all your own letters too. fact is, our writing and our styles do change, but better still, is the fact that Paul signed, but didn't write most of his letters. He had an eye condition from being struck blind on the road to Damascus. So its the Bible's fault that people disagree and split up? I must say, that I too, have never found a contradiction. I have found named figures of speech, Hebraisms, idiom, men refusing to see the intelligent design of God's creation and so forth, and I can read of being warned about such times coming, but better is that God is able to use even the greatest failures of men to His own purpose. For a site which specializes in teaching atheist of God's wisdom and truth, is the following one, wherein this atheist scientist teacher guy found by looking into science that God must exist: http://www.doesgodexist.org/

sorry about the lengths. its a really really big book. and the subject is greater still. Could you please post these verses which you "find clear teachings that the Law of God is not only still in effect but it is the character of God if you really want to know him." regarding gentiles ? <who, as far as I can see, were never under law> Thank you.

Hold on now, I never said there werent such a thing as willful sinners.. My point is that the apostle does't leave us to guess what the willful sinning might be, within the context he is giving. The apostle tells us what wilful sinners are, and it has to do with counting the blood of lambs and goats and bullocks more able to save than Christ's blood, thereby making His blood but common: Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Remember, this entire dialog has rested Jews and Jewish law regarding the taking away of sin. This is to believers. This isnot to establish Salvation, that had been established in the first few chapters, this has moven forward and is about overcomers of overcoming faith, why, the very next chapter gives a long list of them even; Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God; Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified. Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? What could a Hebrew do to be seen as trodding under foot the Son of God, counting the blood of the covenant by which they were saved as an unholy thing? Well, they could put their trust in the blood of animals, they would surely lose their reward for doing that, for "draw back" unto bondage by the works of law, seeking their own salvation, but they "are not of them who draw back...but of them that believe to the saving of the soul". There it is, right in the very chapter itself: Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. perdition apōleia, From a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss NOT THE LOSS OF SALVATION, loss of reward Paul maintains the subject of reward and loss of reward being associated with the blood of Christ: Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? I am not trying to be 'right' here, I am trying to show forth some verses which contain God's interpretation, merely pointing to the verses which might bring to view the simplicity which is in Christ. We are clearly told that those who willfully sin, those who cannot see the true gospel, are blinded by the god of this world. Salvation is a free gift: http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...425845&st=280

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. In chapter 3 of Romans, Paul brings them before the court of God where they whole world stands guilty before the righteous Lord God. In chapter 1 the apostle reminds them of the gentiles,

one: help me out here then, and provide the verses which have covenant relationship of God and non Jews please. two: I am not saying gentile inclusion was an after thought, that was always made known, it is by covenant promise the gentile inclusion would come through Israel as that channel to make the nations be filled with the knowledge of the Lord. This certainly isn't happening now. It is yet future. Israel isn't doing anbody any good as far as covenant relationship goes today. We are expressly told that we are in the dispensation of grace Eph3. and others, and that as such, God reveals a portion of His plan which had been kept secret, but now is revealed after Acts, that God had chosen another people from before the foundation of the world. And that this company is seen seated with Christ. Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: Don't ever forget this, that Christ came to minister to His people Israel, not to other nations. He came to confirm the promises made unto the fathers of that nation. He came into His own and His own received Him not. His coming to Israel was confirming that OT plan revealed only to Israel. And that through thee, all families of the earth shall be blessed. He was not going to concentrate His blessings only on this nation, but was going to use them as a channel to take out His blessings to the whole world. And He said to Abraham that through him shall all families of the earth be blessed, and this is what Paul is bringing to rememberance. That while Christ came to Israel, it was the gentile finally in view. The whole world. Let's go back to ch9, Paul is speaking to his brethren, his kinsmen according to the flesh: Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises. Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came He came to His own, and His own received Him not. Those fathers are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God made a promise to them concerning their seed, of a land, and a hope of that seed, where we must always keep the land and the seed together, as Scripture always does. God promised a land, a seed, a king to rule over them as a nation of priests, and this all rests on the person of Christ. He is the great king prince. They, the kingdom of priests under the first covenant, and they will be under the second at Christ's coming. Israel then, is the chosen channel for earthly blessings, just as the church, the body of Christ is the chosen channel for heavenly blessings. You'll notice here, that the apostle has to quote three times, from the law, the prophets and the Psalms, to prove Gentile blessings. Today, it seems it's exactly the other way around. Often we have to go to Scripture again and again, to prove the Lord Jesus Christ came for Israel, that it is the is the Jews who have first place position. Where is Christ seated? On the earth? In the heavenly places? If this church, called His body, has for its inheritance to be seated where Christ sits in the heavenly places, how can it be seen as here on the earth? or with part of that covenant with Israel? There is an earthly Kingdom, where Israel has the preeminence and the center, and there is revealed a Heavenly Kingdom far above all powers and principalities where Christ sits. And the church is seen sitting with Him there. This is an additional revelation and does not assume to be part of Gentile inclussion. There is an earthly Kingdom, where Israel has the preeminence and the center, and here is revealed a Heavenly Kingdom far above all powers and principalities where Christ sits. And the church is seen sitting with Him there. Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Israel has promise by covenant, the church has no such covenant but is made nigh by the blood of Christ, apart from covenant relation. Now if I have gotten this all mixed up, please provide the verses which show the church in what the HS has called, 'the dispensation of grace', is under covenant relation with God. Thank you too Hitch. You know me, always trying to show the things that are different. When one sign points to heaven and one points to earth, which sign do you want to follow? or when we read what the apostle of the circumcision wrote to that covenant people of promise, or the apostle of the uncircumcision who wrote of that heavenly calling for the hope of you gentiles, hopefully we are instructed in the Biblical terms enough to pick the one that goes to heaven, to pick the one that is written for the hope of you gentiles. Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus This is not on the earth. It is in heavenly places where Christ sits. Who is this written to? Is it written to Israel? Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. So this is not Israel, but another body of believers altogether. When studying these prison epistles, you will notice that every member is absolutely equal, which is not the case in the earthly kingdom. Herein are the unity and fullness teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, as given to the apostle of the gentiles. This is where I must go if I want to know what that Lord Jesus Christ has given for my specific instruction because my fathers were not Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, my fathers don't know who there fathers were, they certainly weren't Jewish, therefore, I am a gentile. We are told that in the eternal purpose of God, in this might working out in His foreknowledge, He had kept secret this kingdom body, the church, till it was time to reveal it, and that by it, the very aristocracy of heaven are learning something by the church, of the manifold wisdom of God. That word 'principalities' means the first, or principal rule, the aristocracy of heaven: Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: One portion of God's kingdom has blessings in the earth, a people by adoption, chosen since the foundation of the world, always made known, never a secret One portion of God's kingdom has blessings in the heavenly places, a people by adoption, chosen from before the foudation of the world, kept secret - not hid in the OT- 'hid in God' untill Israel made up her mind to accept or reject the earthly kingom offer Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers, Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto a holy temple in the Lord: Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God through the Spirit.

Very true, depending upon the context, it is truly, as well as so be it. Below, it is the word as quoted, 'so be it', said by those around the throne. so be it, or, and that's that, or, truly. Rev 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshiped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen

Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God: Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. Rev 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up forever and ever. Rev 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshiped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. God that sat on the throne much people in heaven the four and twenty elders the four beasts all ye his servants a great multitude his wife they which are called There is quite a number of different groupings here. It isn't just the Lamb and the bride, so, who are they all?

Gen 15:10 And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not. Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Note the following: Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Gen 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. It does not say that the covenant is with all nations, but that it is strictly with Abraham, that he shall be a father of many nations. Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. We see a covenant with the seed of Isaac, and a promise made to Ishmael. Paul explains this: Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Luk 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; Luk 1:73 The oath which he swore to our father Abraham, Luk 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, Isnt' it clear that the covenant was only with they who would be called Israel? Exo 6:5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel...my covenant. Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel...covenant. Num 18:19 All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel ...is a covenant...to thy seed with thee. Num 25:13 And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood...for the children of Israel. Deu 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel...beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. 1Ki 8:9 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt. 1Ch 16:17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant, Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Can someone please provide the verses describing the covenant God made with all the rest of the nations who were not covered under the above covenant made with Abraham and the children called Israel? some might say, that God didn't do away with the covenant to Israel and give it to the gentiles, He just expanded it, or revised it or something. before anyone goes there, please look at what God Himself declares about altering His covenant with Israel: Psa 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Psa 89:35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. Now I don't know about anyone else, but my fathers never had a covenant with God. I can't look to my fathers for covenant truth. I am compelled to ask a simple, yet perhaps stupid question here. Is this board supporting a spiritual Israel theology? This thread and many others seem to be saying God did not make any distinction in the various nations <71 Biblically> that geniltes have Israel's covnenant and is even the bride, which the whole of the Bible declares to be Israel. Taking Israel's place? Isnt that called a spiritual Israel theosophy? The way I read it, and I could be wrong, God made nations seperate, and didn't send the salvation of God to all nations until Israel as a nation rejected the re offer of the kingdom during the Acts period. After that, Paul wrote some letters saying the Lord, by revelation, gave him a new message which would include all nations, something God had never made known before, something 'hid in God', saying of this revelation, that it is 'unsearchable', and that they are exceeding abundant blessings in glory far above all heavens, and it is the inheritance of the church, which is His body, seen as seated with Christ. Did you all ever read about that in Ephesians and Colossians and 2 Timothy and Philipians? that this church has all spiritual blessings in the heavenly places, not on the earth?

Excellent point: Who can then the New Covenant been written for? Who is it given to in both the OT and the NT? Isn't the New Covenant written for the same called out "church in the wilderness" Old Covenant Hebrew nation? I have some questions for you all now: Is there a place in the Bible that tells of a church which has kingdom blessings in the heavenly places? If so, what is their relationship with the church which has kingdom blessings in the earth? I mean, are people going to heaven or not? Most of the people here seem to be saying they are only interested in Israel's earthly blessings. How can you have the blessings of going to heaven for eternity, but also claim to have Israel's blessings land you squarely on the earth? Am I confused about what I am reading on this board?

I suggest that, now this is just my opinion, but I suggest that we cannot be prepared to come to the fullness of understanding until we have looked closely at all tht is written, and find where all things fit, acknowledging that there can be no condradiction in the Lord and in His Word, The Bible. I believe God who at sundry times, spake in times past: (1949? BC - Kingdom Promised - (4BC) > "unto the fathers' by the Prophets, not the Priests who were to offer sacrifices and teach the Hebrew what God had said by the Prophets: >>> (29 AD) Kingdom At Hand> The Son had Spoken Unto "us Hebrews", not us Gentiles. In ''these days'' of that dispensation, not in the days of which we live. God speaking by His Son was the subject of prophecy <Duet. 18:15-19>. He spoke concerning the Kingdom. He only "began" this wondrous speaking; it ended with His death. >>> Kingdom Postponed >(63 AD) The ministry of the Lord in the four Gospels was carried on by the Twelve after the ascension. There was no break nor was there a new testimony beyond the fact that Chrstt was risen from the dead. They were commissioned to repeat and confirm what the Son had said. In order to understand the apostolic ministry you must understand what the Lord's ministry was (see Matt 4:17). The Apostles confinined themselves into CONFIRMING what they had heard the Lord say from the start. This proclamation continued thruogh Acts - it came to a head at Acts 28:24-28. >>> The Church Which is His Body Now The Kingdom now is in abeyance. God spoke again. This last time through Paul the prisoner. The speaking was to Genitles arpart from Israel. God makes known His great sceret, 'the Mystery". Not by the Old Testament Prophets, not by His Son, not by those who hear Him, but by the Prisoner of the Lord. The unsearchable riches of Christ is now amoung the geniltes. Toay, God speaks to us through His Scriptures of truth which were penned by Paul the prisoner. Paul who was the Apostle Of the Gentiles, was given TWO CALLINGS to them. Only one of them is in view today. Failure to recongnize this has resulted in perpetual controversy about churches and ordinances. >>> Tribulation And The Kingdom When the present dispensation of Grace is over, God will speak again. He will speak directly Himself. ******************************************************************* Some facts about the crossing. This is the crossing which the weekly Sabbath was instituted as a "statute" addresses, the one they were given the Sabbath day to 'remember' it was the Lord who 'brought them...with a mighty hand': Only the men of adult age were counted, so that means there were 2 3 million: According to the Quartermaster General in the Army, it is reported that Moses would have to have had 1,500 tons of food each day. Do you know that to bring that much food each day, two freight trains, each at least a mile long, would be required! Besides, you must remember, they were out in the desert, so they would have to have firewood to use in cooking the food. This would take 4,000 tons of wood and a few more freight trains, each a mile long, just for one day. And just think, they were forty years in transit! And, Oh yes! They would have to have water. If they only had enough to drink and wash a few dishes, it would take 11,000,000 gallons each day and a freight train with tank cars, 1,800 miles long, just to bring the water! And then another thing! They had to get across the Red Sea at night. Now, if they went on a narrow path, double file, the line would be 800 miles long and would require 35 days and nights to get through. So there had to be a space in the Red Sea, 3 miles wide so that they could walk 5,000 abreast to get over in one night. But then, there is another problem - each time they camped at the end of the day, a camp ground two-thirds the size of the State of Rhode Island was required, or a total of 750 square miles long - think of it! This much space for camping. AND THEY COULDN'T REMEMBER GOD!!! This shows how powerfull the workings of Satan are, the workings of that great spiritual foe, never forget, 'an enemy hath done this': At the end, only two males of age 20 made into the promised land, for after 10 offerings to repent, the Lord brought them home without reward, having been swallowed up in an earthquake. That is what happened to God's chosen people when God was working with them. We are now in a time called, the dispensation of Grace: Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord THIS LETTER OF EPHESIANS: Although it was the first of the four prison epistles, this one is believed to be a 'circular letter', that is, it had no addressee. The customary Title to the church was left blank, therefore it is believed it was read and copied and sent forth throughout Asia, whereby all turned aside from Paul, only Luke was with him. It was then that Luke was compelled <by God> to compose the historical Acts of the Holy Spirit, called now the Acts of the apostles.

The word 'sanctify' = to set apart. When the LORD gave this instruction to Israel, it was to a people chosen from 70 nations. Taken from the 70, they became the 71st nation. There were 70 other nations which never knew God. The only nations which are ever spoken of in the Bible were nations which had direct contact with Israel, that is to say, with the Hebrew nation. That this nation would come the knowledge of God to fill the whole earth is beautifully depicted by the 12 springs watering the 70 Palm trees. Now there is further difficulty in any of these other nations just deciding to take to themselves that which the Lord God gave to His people, the Hebrew nation. It is that they never knew God and couldn't try to take her things, but that to take what God gave to someone else is a violation of at least one of the ten commandments. It is the one which speaks of coveting. You cannot be charged with stealing, because it can only be pretended ownership. When God gives someone something, no one can steal it. Someone can covet it though, and hold it dear in their heart, and pretend to do what the Israelites were instructed to do with it, but it doesn't really belong to anyone but to whom God gave it. That would be, God gave it to the Hebrew nation. When the big meeting about it was then underway at the Jerusalem synagogue in Acts 15, it was because for the first time, people from outside of Israel <Hebrew nation> were to partake of Israel's spiritual things and not have to take on the burden of the law. In every instance before this, any person from any of those 70 other nations which were attracted to God, were forced by Hebrew law to become a Hebrew. The Jews then saw such an individual, not as a filthy dog any longer, but as a new born babe which needed care, and instruction in cleaness, righteousness, law, ordinance, statute, and every aspect of the Jewish life. This meant foresaking everything the gentile had in the former life as a gentile. He would, in affect, become a Jew. In Acts 15, the result of the meating was, that it seemed good to them, and to the Holy Spirit, to lay no greater burden upon the gentiles which the Lord was then using to 'provoke Israel to emmulation', 'to provoke Israel to jealousy' <same word as emmulation> than 4 things that were absolutely necessary to be amidst the Jews and not cause offence. 3 things had to do with food laws, and 1 had to do with fornication. Only these 4 things were given for those gentiles of the Pentacostal period to be beholden to. They were given no other things. This, of course, outraged the Jews. They were saying, look, we have the oracles of God <the rolls>, we have the law, we have every good thing that God has given, it all belongs to us, and these gentile dogs are getting it for free? This outraged the Jews. We are told that the Jews would have been as Soddom, and destroyed as Gomorrah, if it weren't for a remnant. So from 28or 29 ad till 62 ad, 2 things happened. First the 12 preached to none other but the Jews, but they were not many who understood that this was God offering the kingdom for real, if the nation would repent. Second, in 36 ad, Paul began teaching the gentiles outside of the Jewish synagogues, but it was always to the Jew first, because it was preaching for the hope of Israel, that she might bear her fruit and receive the kingdom of God right then and there. For this reason, the believers expected to see Christ Jesus come out of heaven to the earth in their lifetime. The commission, at the end of Mark, would be to preach to the ends of the world till all Israel had heard, with wonders and signs and miracles following them that believed, the Lord working with them. Romans was the last letter written during the Acts period. Acts is the historical record of those years. Romans 10 tells us that all Israel did hear, that the Lord's word did indeed go out into all the world. Sad words of Isaiah are then quoted, and again in Lukes record <Acts> Isaiah is quoted again. Read Acts 28:25-28. In that last chapter also, are recorded the last of the signs and wonders and miracles. Paul then is given his prison ministry where he was literaly chained to a Roman soldier's wrist 24 hours a day, albeit in his own house. It was ther which he wrote 4 letters. These are the ones called the prison epistles. In these <Eph, Col, Phil, 2 Tiim> Paul is writing for the first time what the declaration of Acts 28.28 declared. For the first time ever, in all of the whole of the Bible, God gives to Paul to write that which had been 'hid in God'. What Paul was writing about had not ever been made known 'unto the sons of men', but had been 'hid from ages and from generations, but now made known unto'. There are radicall new teachings in these prison epistles. Teaching that are not in the OT. Remember, during Acts Paul, and the 12, spoke of nothing but that which was written in the law and the prophets and the Psalms. The 12 spoke of what they had seen and heard, while Paul spoke of that which the Lord revealed. Recall too, that Paul went for 3 years to the mountains before beginning his ministry. What was he doing? Getting instruction by the Holy Spirit. What did Paul say upon returning? The apostles added nothing to him, that he was not one wit behind the apostles. Oh, what this man must have known, 3 years of the HS preaching the OT meanings to him, learning the language of angels even. This man was given 'that good deposit', 'thoroughly furnished' unto all good works. Paul reveal, for the first time in all of the Bible, that this new church, a church of all nations, where chosen before the foundation of the world <Jews chosen since the foundation> had every spiritual blessing <Jews were never given every spiritual blessing> would be seated with Christ in the heavenly places <Jews were never told this and have earthly blessings> were made a new creation <not a regrouping of the old covenant, the NC is future and for Israel> this church will not see Him coming to the earth, but appear with Him when He appears and most importantly, this new creation is called the church which is His body, the fulness that filleth all in all <this too is not in the OT> None of this is in the OT, that God would have a people to inhabit the heavenly places. It just isnt' written until Paul reveals it to the gentiles after Acts closes. Emphasis on after Acts closes, when Israel takes her place amidst the nations <Hos3>. Well, this was just too blasphemous. Paul then lost all the convert he ever had. He would then write of this fact, saying only Luke was with me. Paul would write that from the beginning of his prison ministry all had forsaken him. then a few years later Rome would burn, Jerusalem would be destroyed, the great stones of Solomans temple would would fall, as per Mat24, and a church would be set up with man as its head, the people followiing blindly, the Lord not working with them, no miracles signs and wonders. nothing in the OT instructing the Jews as to what they should do if they failed to receive the kingdom offer, and the setting up of man's church on the earth, with man as its head, with gentile priests <totally unBiblical> and Pagan wierd stuff asserting its own headship in the church with centuries of Christian war, and it is even so this day. Without knowing what is written in these 4 prison epistles, man is still worshiping the traditions of man, calling their church the church of God, taking things of Israel as if it is their own. These churches say the people are going to heaven, but place theirselves on the earth with Israel in resurrection. This is tragic. Doesn't anyone consider how people cann be both going to heaven and being on earth at the same time? This is just mixed up theology, it is an amalgomation from failing to rightly divide the word of truth. It is an excersize in coveting. *************************************************************** I didn't even say what I began to say, instead it turned out to be historical overview. I do believe that God has given us the record which bears out He shall have both and inhabited earthly kingdom as well as an inhabited heavenly kingdom. Certain instructions are for those who will inherit the earthly Certain instructions are for those who will inherit the heavenly Those of the earthly kingdom were given 'the sure mercies of David'. Do you know what they are? Act 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Beloved children of God, This is not our hope, our calling. Ours is one which places its membership 'far above all', 'seated with Christ', 'in the heavenly places'. We are given different instruction than called out church ever before: Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

lets do it While we both are considering word usage with such words as 'calling', 'hope', 'church', and PARTICULARLY 'adoption', please read the post at the following address: http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...pic=26313&st=0# I emphasized the word 'particularly', because there are 3 different 'adoptions' in Scripture. It is my read, that God will have a family in both in heavn and in earth, and He has told us who they are in His letter to us, the Bible. Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth

Ican't explain it, but do have some verses for consideration: Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it,he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. he created it not in vain is the same words here given as without form and void. Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Notice that when the man adam, eth ha adam, sinned, sin was already in the world: 2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned Job 4:18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. THAT OLD SERPENT SPEAKS: Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. GEN 1.2 delcares that the heavens AND the earth of Gen 1.1 became void, as God did not create them that way. was = become. See Genesis 2:7; 4:3; 9:15; 19:26. Exodus 32:1. Deuteronomy 27:9. 2Samuel 7:24, etc. Also rendered came to pass, Genesis 4:14; 22:1; 23:1; 27:1. Joshua 4:1; 5:1. 1Kings 13:32. Isaiah 14:24 etc. Also rendered be (in the sense of become), verse 3 etc., and where the verb "to be" is not in italic type. Hence, Exodus 3:1, kept=became keeper, quit = become men, etc. without form = waste. Hebrew tohu va bohu. Figure of Speech Paronomasia. Not created tohu (Isaiah 45:18 See Above), but became tohu (Genesis 1:2. 2Peter 3:5,6). "An enemy hath done this" (Matthew 13:25,28,39. compare 1Corithians 14:33). THE FIGURE: Paronomasia (Romans 15:4). The repetition of words similar in sound, but different in language. Par-eg'-men-on; or, Derivation (Matthew 16:18). The repetition of words derived from the same root. Par-em'-bol'-e; or, Insertion (Philippians 3:18,19). Inseration of a sentence between others which is independent and complete in itself. It is of note that the epistles of John referenced in the quote were written to his brethren, who are Jews, who kept the law, and were instructed to move forward: 1Jo 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 1Jo 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 1Jo 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. Here John defines the 'commandments': 1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should (1) believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and (2) love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

run to and fro = shûṭ = apostatize The Heb shûṭ = to rove, turn about, despise. Hence, to do despite <Ez 16. 57; 28. 24, 26>. But if we spell sûṭ with an s instead of 'sh', the meaning is to swerve, turn aside, apostatize, "those who turn aside", or revolters <Ps101. 3. Hos 5. 2>; as in Ps 40. 4 (5), "such as turn aside to lies". So the Oxford Gesenius, p. 962 <these are the only occurrence of sûṭ , unless Dan 12. 4 be another>. שׁThe dots over the letter making it Sin and Shin formed no part of the inspired primitive textm but were added by the Massoretic scribes, and with the vowel points were gradually introduced into the Heb. text. The Sept, Swete's edition, vol iii, p. 572 (A) reads heos an apomanoein = 'till many shall have gone raving mad'. knowledge = calamities, or wickedness. Ginsburg would read haru oth for hadda ath. The Spt. (A) reads adikiass, "the wickedness" (Swete's edition, vol iii, p. 572). The Vatican (B), Theodotion's translation, reads 'knowledge' (gnosis); Gensburg's hypothesis for this reading arises from the two letters 'r' and 'd', being not infrequently mistaken. First usage: Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Also used in a good since in many places, as is the usage when translated 'cunningly', can mean either for good or evil. The meaning is therefore rendered by the surrounding context: shûṭ 2Ch 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars. Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Jer 49:3 Howl, O Heshbon, for Ai is spoiled: cry, ye daughters of Rabbah, gird you with sackcloth; lament, and run to and fro by the hedges; for their king shall go into captivity, and his priests and his princes together. Eze 27:8 The inhabitants of Zidon and Arvad were thy mariners: thy wise men, O Tyrus, that were in thee, were thy pilots. Eze 27:26 Thy rowers have brought thee into great waters: the east wind hath broken thee in the midst of the seas. Amo 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: Amo 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. Zec 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth. Relating to: Pro 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.