LuftWaffle Posted July 13, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 820 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 7 Joined: 01/09/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, enoob57 said: The point of my comment is we know there has been suffering since the time of Christ 2000 plus years now awaiting the final judgment and your saying God would not do this forever... the leading of Scripture is clear... no matter the will of the one reading it! Agreed, the words of scripture shows clearly that the rich man's predicament is happened before final judgement, despite your will to make it about what happens after final judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,225 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,484 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, LuftWaffle said: Do humans being share every attribute of God, because they're created in the Image of God? we do not need go any further than what I posted - Image depended upon that which has given the reflection and again I ask you how long will God last? 5 minutes ago, LuftWaffle said: I wish I had a coin for every time someone used the Imago Dei as a placeholder for whatever attribute of God they want to pick and assign to human beings. this is deflecting from the argument I posted it has no credence to the debate... 5 minutes ago, LuftWaffle said: It seems you're picking 'Immortality' from the Imago Dei to assign to human beings, but the Bible clearly states that God alone is immortal, and in numerous places immortality is a gift given only to the saved. same as above... the issue lies in image created as an earthly example would be mirror... how long will the image in the mirror last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,225 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,484 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, LuftWaffle said: Agreed, the words of scripture shows clearly that the rich man's predicament is happened before final judgement, despite your will to make it about what happens after final judgement. generally when one frames an argument around what is not stated in the debate reveals the lack of ability to debate the real issue given... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftWaffle Posted July 13, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 820 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 7 Joined: 01/09/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, enoob57 said: your taking a earthly presence of cities and comparing to souls imaged in God's Persons I think that a huge apple and orange issue! To dismiss the sheol they are in is definitely departing from text... The text doesn't mention Sheol at all, but it clearly says the example we are to take from what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah is their extinction and that extinction is what awaits the ungodly. What exegetical warrant is there for claiming the verse is really about what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah in Sheol? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftWaffle Posted July 13, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 820 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 7 Joined: 01/09/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, enoob57 said: this is deflecting from the argument I posted it has no credence to the debate... same as above... the issue lies in image created as an earthly example would be mirror... how long will the image in the mirror last? You haven't actually made an argument at all. You made an assumption which seems to be that Imago Dei, means 'Immortal' and since humans are created in the image of God, then they too must be immortal. There is a ton of scripture that shows this assumption to be false. If you're making a different argument, then please clarify. I'm not interested in playing guessing games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,225 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,484 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, LuftWaffle said: The text doesn't mention Sheol at all, but it clearly says the example we are to take from what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah is their extinction and that extinction is what awaits the ungodly. What exegetical warrant is there for claiming the verse is really about what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah in Sheol? You carefully dodged the real issue about what the text is speaking of (physical cities) and the souls of people are stated in the Lazarus speaking of Jesus... this is called deflection from debate point and is a poor fellowship within Scripture... we know the proper hermeneutic is to immediate context, chapter context, Testament context, entire Scripture context.... Isa 28:10 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: KJV hence the work that is described in here 2 Tim 2:15 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftWaffle Posted July 13, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 820 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 7 Joined: 01/09/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, enoob57 said: generally when one frames an argument around what is not stated in the debate reveals the lack of ability to debate the real issue given... I believe I've responded to the parable of the rich man and Lazarus by showing that a) it's not about what happens after judgement and b) it doesn't say anything about it being an eternal state. It seems you have nothing more to add to that discussion so I'll move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,225 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,484 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, LuftWaffle said: The text doesn't mention Sheol at all, but it clearly says the example we are to take from what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah is their extinction and that extinction is what awaits the ungodly. What exegetical warrant is there for claiming the verse is really about what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah in Sheol? The text is merely speaking of the cities and truly they are not found... but to the death that occured within those cities to that we have to go elsewhere in the Scripture and clearly that is addressed in Lazarus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted July 13, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,225 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,484 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted July 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, LuftWaffle said: I believe I've responded to the parable of the rich man and Lazarus by showing that a) it's not about what happens after judgement and b) it doesn't say anything about it being an eternal state. It seems you have nothing more to add to that discussion so I'll move on. unless you can accurately address my points it is not debate but you an your agenda of what you believe... many people do this but it becomes my responsibility to God to leave the discussion- for it is no longer about His Word and correctly reflecting that but other... To be perfectly clear in this: 41 minutes ago, enoob57 said: your taking a earthly presence of cities and comparing to souls imaged in God's Persons I think that a huge apple and orange issue! To dismiss the sheol they are in is definitely departing from text... this needs to be addressed by you 20 minutes ago, enoob57 said: same as above... the issue lies in image created as an earthly example would be mirror... how long will the image in the mirror last? this is simple agree or disagree and why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftWaffle Posted July 13, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 820 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 7 Joined: 01/09/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, enoob57 said: You carefully dodged the real issue about what the text is speaking of (physical cities) and the souls of people are stated in the Lazarus speaking of Jesus... this is called deflection from debate point and is a poor fellowship within Scripture... we know the proper hermeneutic is to immediate context, chapter context, Testament context, entire Scripture context.... I'm sorry but you cannot simply impose the context of the rich man and Lazarus onto 2Pe 2:6 while throwing around words like context and hermeneutic in an attempt to appear knowledgable. Your initial statement was that nowhere scripture teaches extinction of the wicked. I have offered 2Pe 2:6 which specifically uses the word extinction in relation to what will happen to the unsaved, from the example of the cities destruction through fire. It seems what you're doing now is to try and reinterpret the context of 2Pe to conform with your view, but when I asked you what exegetical warrant you have for doing it, you're simply saying what amounts to, "2Pe is about Sheol because....context and hermeutics". In other words hand-waiving. Just because you can say the words 'context, exegesis and hermeutics' doesn't mean you get to make assertions about the text without offering justification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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