Islam wants the world..Wake up!!!!!!!

[amor]

Something else that seems pertinent to be, but will no doubt set Shiloh off against me again. Calls from an extremist cleric for the death of Ariel Sharon. Only to make things a little different and to balance out the criticism of mad and bad Christian and Muslim leaders the call comes not from a Mullah, or even a priest , but a Rabbi, See here. . It's from Haaretz which is an Israeli paper, but no doubt Shiloh will judge it to be anti-semitic too. One of those issuing this "pulsa denura" a sort of Aramaic Fatwa, I believe, did another one just before the murder of Rabin.

[Guest shiloh357]

Actually amor, while I don't call for Sharon's death, and do not agree with it, I do feel that Sharon is coming close to betraying his own people to the terrorists. As such, I would prefer that he be unseated and replaced by someone unwilling to bend and give in to the ridiculous idea of disengagement.

The problem with people like you amor, is that is always the Jews' fault. You have squarely layed the blame for the problems in Middle East on the shoulders of the Jews in Israel and demonstrate that you don't know beans about the conflict or its history. It is people like you who know the least, who think are qualified to spout off the most.

Most of your stuff is anti-Semitic to core, and I will take every opportunity to discredit your misinformation and ill-informed remarks.

The "two-state" solution nowadays, is code for "the destruction of Israel." Any Palestinian state will be nothing but a launching pad for more attacks aimed at destroying Israel. The Palestinians have been offered a two state solution in the past and rejected it each time.

The Palestinians do not deserve a state of their own. They are not a people. They Arabs who are refugees as result of the treachery of their own fellow Arabs, who refuse to repatriate them into Arab countries. They have not one right to one square inch of Israel.

They are nothing but hapless pawns in the hands of the Arab governments who seek Israel's destruction through political and demographic means, since they have seen that they cannot defeat Israel militarily.

You are clueless, amor. You would be well advised to learn the real history of the conflict. Maybe then you can see how pitiful, and naive most of the garbage you post here really is.

[Eadora]

How often have I seen this tactic.

Again and again it rears it

[nebula]

Where specifically?

1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

OK, but this is talking about people who were leaving it up to the church to provide for their families, and in particular children and grandchildren who were not looking after their widowed parents/grandparents.

And it has nothing to do with self-preservation/self-defence.

So . . . if some man takes your daughter or wife or sister and goes about raping and murdering her -

are you telling me that the Christian thing to do is to let him???!!!

[nebula]

And this problem would be what?

Well for a start: the continued Israeli occupation and control of the West Bank and Gaza.

Interesting - The number one reason for terrorism is Israel.

Amor, do you seriously believe that Israel pulling out of Gaza and te Weat Bank will stop terrorism? C'mon! They want Israel illiminated - period!

Are you justifying this?

And the oppresion of their indigenous Muslim and Christian  Arab population;

Have you heard of how non-Islams are treated in Arab countries?

And you are calling Israel the bad guy?

the Anglo-American invasion and occupation of Iraq;

As I recall . . . terrorists attacked America FIRST.

the continued Russian occupation of Chechnya (again against the wishes of the majority indigenous Chechen population)anti-muslim pogroms in India fermented by Hindu nationalists.

And this relates to America how?

The Western support for corrupt regimes in the Arab world which allow elites to wallow in luxury and the poor to drown in squallor.

That's right - blame America for Arab leaders.

Amor - is there anything loving or righteous or godly about terrorism?

Then why justify it?

[Guest shiloh357]

Brother amor offers criticism of certain Israeli policies and is immediately attacked as being < ANTI SEMITE >

No, amor simply blames all of the Middle East's problems, and the worldwide problems with terrorism on the Jews.

Criticism of Israel and Israeli policies, is one thing, but amor blames the entire Middle East conflict on the Jews, and that is unacceptable.

Criticism of present Israeli policy towards the Palestinians does not make one an AntiSemitic Jew hater. Such criticisms are made within the nation of Israel itself, and made by Jews. They are summarily discounted by fanatics as self hating psychopaths.

There is nothing wrong with criticizing Israel per se, but when Israel is singled out for unique condemnation, and the condemnation is not even historically or factually accurate, then it is unacceptable, and should be discredited.

amor is historically inaccurate in just everything he says about Israel. He blames the current Palestinians crisis on the Jews when in fact it was caused by Arabs and that is by Arab admission. Yet he persists in blaming the Jews for the problems that the Arabs perpetuate through their desire to annihilate Israel.

Who or what is creating the present climate in which hate prospers and grows.

Undoubtedly a fanatical brand of fundamentalist Islam will be found at fault.

But that they find much of the fuel that fires their hate and inspires their recruits in the present policies of this administration and in the policy agenda of fundamentalist Zionists is a fact that must be dealt with.

yeah the fundamentalist Zionist agenda that allows Palestinians to live on Israeli social security; the same fundamentalist Zionist agenda that tried three times to give the Palestinians their own state in the 20th century. The same fundamentalist Zionist agenda that built hospitals and universities, and houses, and a school for blind children, and replaced trenches with modern sewage systems, all for the Palestinians, at Israel's expense.

I guess you are talking about the same fundamentalist Zionist agenda that provided medicine to sick Palestinian children who were dying from preventable childhood diseases when the Jordanians and Egyptians controlled the Gaza and the West Bank, respectively. You must be talking about the same fundamentalist Zionist agenda that give the Palestinians seats in the Knesset, allows millions of Arabs full rights as Citizens of the nation, and contributed millions of dollars to the UNWRA for the sake of helping the Palestinians, all most of which into Arafat's pockets.

I guess most of your kind forgets how much Israel has tried to help the Palestinians and how most of that help and goodwill is repayed in bloodshed. Perhaps you don't "forget." Perhaps it is a case of just "ignoring" what Israel has done. The more Israel has held out the olive branch the worse the terrorism gets. Then anything Israel does to protect itself against terrorism, gets them labeled as fundamental Zionists extremists, while the terrorists are called freedom fighters.

Israel has made many, many sacrifices, and insane concessions that no other nation would make, all in the name of peace. They have always come to the table with generous offers, and offered peace in good faith, only get their generosity thrown back in their face, and their streets become a battle zone as the terrorists, who are nothing but a bunch rank cowards, attack babies and the elderly. The terrorists are a waste of human flesh and do not need to be understood, reasoned with or appeased. They should be destroyed.

They are driven not by anyone's policies. To think that they are driven by "policies" is just naive, and that is exactly what they are banking on; the historical illiteracy of the West. They are driven by an irrational hatred, that cannot be reasoned with and cannot be appeased.

[Eadora]

yeah the fundamentalist Zionist agenda

[Guest shiloh357]

Like has been pointed out. They would kill Ariel Sharon, it is their policy!

That is not their "policy." It was what a one or maybe a few want to do. But you and amor would like to paint all those who oppose Sharon the same way by calling it their "policy." Funny how when a few Arabs do something evil, we are not supposed to consider that a reflection on the Muslim community, but when a few Jews get up and make radical calls for Sharons death, suddenly that is a "fundalmentalist Zionist agenda," as if everyone is in on it. Just another lovely little double standard people like you apply toward Jews.

They are driven by an irrational hatred, that cannot be reasoned with and cannot be appeased.Yer, on a Rant here partner!

I am on a rant? I am not on rant, it is the truth.

Israel, has since 2000 suffered over 25,000 terrorist attacks, they have suffered 5 Arab instigated aimed at their annihilation. They have been victimized by the terrorists for the last 57 years.

Israel allows imam trash to get up in their mosques every Friday night and breathe murderous calls for all Muslims to rise up and murder every Jew they can find. Israel allows for calls for its own destruction to occur on its own soil.

Yet somehow, in your twisted, perverted imagination it is the Zionists who are the problem!! When was the last time you read in the news that Rabbis got a bunch of Jews worked up into frenzy frothing at the mouth like a bunch of rabid hyenas and incited them to run out into the streets and kill every Arab they can find? When was the last time you heard about rash of Jewish suicide bombers blowing Arabs in supermarkets, discoteques, and pizza parlors? When was the last time you heard Israeli Jews jointly calling for the annihilation of every Arab or even every Palestinian? When was the last time you heard about Jews ambushing Arabs in their cars on lonely roads?

You never hear about anything like that coming from the Jewish side of conflict. Yet, it is the "fundamentalist" Zionists who are to blame. It is always the Jews' fault, I guess.

I am not a rant, Eadora. The Arab/Muslim world in the Middle East hates Jews, and it has no rational reason. It is not based up on a legitimate grievance, since the reasons that most people give for terrorism are predated by terrorism itself. For example: Most people have been led to believe by the Palestinian Authority that their terrorism is the result of settlements being established in the WB and Gaza. So how does that explain the terrorism prior to the settlements when not one Jewish "settlement" existed in those areas? They claim their terrorism is a response to Israel's "occupation" of the WB and Gaza, yet how does that explain the terrorism prior to 1967? I can demonstrate Muslim violence against the Jews in the Land going back decades before the nation of Israel was established. The point is, the "policies" that the Arabs claim as the basis of their agenda are a smoke screen to validate their true desire to destroy Israel. They cannot defeat Israel militarily has they have tried that numerous times, so now they have to destroy Israel by political means. They have to get the nations of the world to strong arm Israel into doing what the Arab military campaigns could not do. They had to invent a "Palestinian" Arab people and foment the claim that they were a disenfranchised people pushed off their land by the evil Zionists, and so forth. Nothing they claim can be substantiated by history, but that does not matter to some people.

They hate Jews, they hate Israel, and it is not policy based. It is not rational and it cannot be appeased. There is nothing they will settle for expect the complete, unconditional destruction of Israel. They sought to destroy Israel one day after Israel was born, and the attacks and terror have never ceased. Israel is fighting for survival. They are not "oppressing" anyone. They have done everything they can to live in peace with the Arabs. . The Israeli government is not perfect in all their ways. Israel

[Guest yod]

eudora and amor know that already, Shiloh.

"Imagine" by Dr. Miriam Adahan

Imagine that you live in Israel, which has suffered 25,500 known terror attacks just since 2000, including 6000 rockets just on your small section of Gush Katif, and instead of attacking the Arab enemy, the government attacks you.

Imagine that your teenage children are arrested for handing out orange ribbons on street corners and when you see the police choking them and bashing them with brass knuckles and you come to their aid, you, too, are arrested and charged with harming the police officers who arrested you.

Imagine that you and your friends come to Kfar Maimon to peacefully protest this outrage and that the government sends 20,000 soldiers and police (the same number President Bush sent to invade Iraq) to encircle the area with barbed wire, creating a virtual prison camp.

Imagine that it is August 1, 2005 and you are to be evicted from your home on August 15 and you have no idea where to go.

Imagine that you've been told that you will be allowed to take enough possessions out of your home to fill two small containers and that the rest must be left behind.

Imagine that you live in a beautiful eight-room home of your dreams with five bathrooms and that you will, at best, be given a cramped caravan which leaks in the winter rains and is sweltering in the summer.

Imagine trying to decide between your piano and your washing machine, between your books and the beds, between your sofa and your dining room table between your clothing and your photo albums.

Imagine that you discuss with your neighbors whether you will lock yourself in your home and make the arresting officers bash the door down, in which case you will forfeit all government compensation or walk silently to the bus which will take you to a detention center, or be dragged out of your home as a way of passively protesting this atrocity.

Imagine that you discuss with your spouse whether the children should have to see you being dragged out of the only home they have ever known or if it is better to have them sent away.

Imagine that your son/husband/neighbor is an army officer or policeman and it is their duty to drag you to the waiting buses.

Imagine that the Israeli press ignores your plight, except to refer to you and your neighbors as fanatical hooligans who have stolen the land you live on.

Imagine that you have lived in a community for 10, 20, 30 years, have been productive and independent and that you will soon be unemployed, a burden on the state, a humiliated and broken welfare recipient.

Imagine that you walk around your precious community, knowing that your home, synagogue, mikvah, community center, schools and health centers will be soon be bulldozed into oblivion.

Imagine having to go from a home with a huge backyard, filled with flowers and fruit trees to some cramped apartment in a strange city.

Imagine having to leave your children and grandchildren who could easily run next door to visit you and whom you will now see only rarely.

Imagine that the government is spending $7 billion dollars to deport you and your neighbors, forfeiting the $2 billion a year earned by the Gush Katif population and that the money for this expulsion plan was taken by slashing pensions for the elderly, closing schools and hospitals, reducing health services, reducing the sick and the handicapped to begging, sending 37,000 abused children were sent back

to abusive homes since there was no money to keep them in state dormitories, canceling summer programs for children - and then you are blamed for all this pain.

Imagine that well known rabbis, teachers and community leaders suddenly disappear and that you are told that they are being held in prison indefinitely and being treated in a most brutal manner.

Imagine 14 year old children arrested and sent to solitary confinement for having insulted a police officer.

Imagine that the government declares war on Judaism, closing down radio stations that used to disseminate inspiring words of Torah, closing down religious councils, cutting off support for religious schools and institutions, threatening rabbis who disagree with government policy and firing government workers who protest.

Imagine that even before the 25 communities of Gush Katif are destroyed, that the "Peace Now" Organization hands over a list of 120 Jewish settlements in the Shomron to the Israeli Supreme Court to be destroyed, claiming that the land was stolen from the Palestinians (as if there ever was such a people!)

Imagine that Hamas has already announced that there will be massive parades throughout Gush Katif celebrating their victory over the Jewish people.

Imagine that the whole world will watch as terrorists take over these communities and think that Jews are the stupidest idiots in the world.

. . . .IMAGINE THE POWER OF PRAYER TO TURN THIS INCREDIBLE SCENARIO

AROUND!!!!!!! WITH YHVH NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE

[M45510G1C]

Well for a start: the continued Israeli occupation and control of the West Bank and Gaza.

Sorry bud, you're gonna have to take that one up with the almighty Himself, I think He may, in His infinite wisdom, disagree with you.