Don19 Posted August 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 578 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 255 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted August 1, 2020 11 hours ago, Michael37 said: Why the objection? If belief does not involve an element of choice non-Calvinists are as predestined to their beliefs as Calvinists are to theirs. I agree with Glory To God that God chooses who is saved and who is not. Also, God created all things for His own purposes and pleasure (Rev 4:11, Col 1:16-17). A Christian is a new creature (2 Cor 5:17), so it follows that this new creature was created by for His own pleasure. God has mercy on whom He will, saving whom He will, for His own good pleasure, not our own good pleasure. As Jesus said, Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. (Luke 12:32). And God will most surely do all His pleasure (Isaiah 46:10). Salvation is a gift. Some gifts can be returned, but God's gift of eternal life comes with a strict no-return policy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted August 2, 2020 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 244 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,011 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,929 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Online Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted August 2, 2020 11 hours ago, Glory To God said: Several reasons for the objection,some being the sinner being able to accept or reject God is because it effectively degrades the sovereignty of God and falsely gives the spiritual dead man the impression he is the author of his own salvation when it is God alone who makes that call. When the sinful rebel thinks he is the one who decides he can write his name in gods book,this is not only false but it puts a low view on God and and high view of the corrupt creation. In my 66 years of association with all things Biblical and Christian I have never met a non-Calvinist who believed they were the author of their salvation, but there are plenty of us who find it amusing that Calvinists object to beliefs that contradict theirs, not realising that they undermine their own position by doing so, a point that is lost on many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 2, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,876 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,769 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, Don19 said: I agree with Glory To God that God chooses who is saved and who is not. Also, God created all things for His own purposes and pleasure (Rev 4:11, Col 1:16-17). A Christian is a new creature (2 Cor 5:17), so it follows that this new creature was created by for His own pleasure. God has mercy on whom He will, saving whom He will, for His own good pleasure, not our own good pleasure. As Jesus said, Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. (Luke 12:32). And God will most surely do all His pleasure (Isaiah 46:10). Salvation is a gift. Some gifts can be returned, but God's gift of eternal life comes with a strict no-return policy! Big disagreement in the points made below... God does not give gifts of eternal Life... God gave us Jesus Christ his Son.... Jesus is the author of the Eternal Life.... Jesus Christ is not sitting in judgement deciding to whom he is going to give the Eternal Life... What is this ...first time I heard it..."no return policy... It's always up to the man...it was his decision to believe in the first place...and he can decide to become an Atheist... Or to believe in another religion which does not have Jesus Christ...on the Cross fot the forgiveness of our sins... When anyone believes in Jesus Christ by DEFAULT with the forgiveness of sins he is in the eternal Life.. and before he has began to live his life as a believer... No one can be judge by his living if he is in the eternal Life... And it does not matter Whether one knows it or not...Jesus knows it...and not only Jesus but also the Devil... * A reminder we are not from the first generation of believers... When everyone who believed came from not believing parents... Edited August 2, 2020 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 2, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,876 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,769 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 8:59 AM, Glory To God said: Well thanks for the serious question. I do want to make it clear that the reformers who put TULIP together are the authority on this biblical doctrine,so naturally I would defer to their seniority in any discrepancies that may have occurred,although I think my (amateur) five points are reasonable close to the real five points. Having said that let's focus in on the fourth point. I put my acronym together on the fly without notes but with sincerity,looking back I probably should have added more time and detail but what can you do. The Bible says man is dead not damaged in his trespasses and sins and obviously this a spiritual issue because we are psychically alive. However the human heart is in opposition with God and rebels against the creator as he always has done. Prophets,mediators and even God himself entering into creation via Christ has not turned humanity's view to god. So irresistible grace is lifeline from god that will save a person regardless of their rebellious heart. Two points to follow here,one is we have no ability to choose god because the spiritual death caused by the consequences of the fall and two is our flesh is in rebellion with god,seeking out our sinful desires. Also TULIP was designed in response to a group that believed gods grace can be resisted,a saved person can choose to reject god or that god will become fickle and allow the person to fall away into apostasy and man is not spiritual dead. The reformers objected adamantly to this claim and so do I also. My fourth point focused primarily on the fallen part of humanity and how we do not have the ability to choose god as there is no goodness in a corrupt lifeless husk. God has no spiritual fight with a dead man and there is no chance of losing the salvation that was never earned even partially by the undeserving lump. I did miss out the rebellious human heart that is at war with God to devise their own wicked devices that will eventually shown the glory of god. Man is natural in a state of enmity with god this is his default position. Now look here guys,I stated I was offering five points up,I never said they would be a decent five points did I? Your acknowledging that you can be mistaken is commendable but what is keeping you not to open the door of your heart to the knocking of Jesus Christ.... You have open your heart to the Gospel that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of our sins... Jesus took the sins of everyone upon himself....including those who had died before him and those who were living at that time and those who will be born...but not all who will hear the Gospel will believe... Preach anything you want if you have to but invite everyone to believe...to not forbid faith in Jesus Christ... Every knee shall bow down before Jesus Christ...this is the will of the Father of Jesus Christ who is he that gave Jesus Christ this authority... God gave this authority to Jesus Christ because is he who died on the Cross for all the world... Jesus Christ has the right to judge all according to their faith because he died for all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory To God Posted August 2, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 66 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/21/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 2, 2020 29 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: Your acknowledging that you can be mistaken is commendable but what is keeping you not to open the door of your heart to the knocking of Jesus Christ.... You have open your heart to the Gospel that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of our sins... Jesus took the sins of everyone upon himself....including those who had died before him and those who were living at that time and those who will be born...but not all who will hear the Gospel will believe... Preach anything you want if you have to but invite everyone to believe...to not forbid faith in Jesus Christ... Every knee shall bow down before Jesus Christ...this is the will of the Father of Jesus Christ who is he that gave Jesus Christ this authority... God gave this authority to Jesus Christ because is he who died on the Cross for all the world... Jesus Christ has the right to judge all according to their faith because he died for all... My heart open to Jesus? Not sure what you mean by. That's how evangelists speak about the lost. Doesn't sound good for me lol. See this is where I disagree,Jesus dying for everyone and you literally said everyone but what about those cast down into hell? Christ suffered so much,lived a sinless life had the glory of a miraculous unique birth and is now at the right hand of the father making intercessions,pleading to show us mercy.........for all those creatures in the pit of hell as well? Sorry I don't believe that. And I do think the great commission should be carried out indiscriminately,so there's no disagreement there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory To God Posted August 2, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 66 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/21/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 2, 2020 14 hours ago, Michael37 said: In my 66 years of association with all things Biblical and Christian I have never met a non-Calvinist who believed they were the author of their salvation, but there are plenty of us who find it amusing that Calvinists object to beliefs that contradict theirs, not realising that they undermine their own position by doing so, a point that is lost on many. Quote from you ''In my 66 years of association with all things Biblical and Christian I have never met a non-Calvinist who believed they were the author of their salvation'' Of course you have Michael,they just don't use those words. In fact,every single Armenian thinking person who has ever professed to be a follower of Christ believe that even if it is temporary,and here is the reason: If it is not God alone that saves,free of any partnership with his creation than how are we saved? The answer is we save ourselves with the assistance of God. That is choosing your own destiny that is authoring your own salvation or lack of. That's the basic mechanics behind it,no other way really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted August 2, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,876 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,769 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Glory To God said: My heart open to Jesus? Not sure what you mean by. That's how evangelists speak about the lost. Doesn't sound good for me lol. See this is where I disagree,Jesus dying for everyone and you literally said everyone but what about those cast down into hell? Christ suffered so much,lived a sinless life had the glory of a miraculous unique birth and is now at the right hand of the father making intercessions,pleading to show us mercy.........for all those creatures in the pit of hell as well? Sorry I don't believe that. And I do think the great commission should be carried out indiscriminately,so there's no disagreement there. Please read my post you quoted carefully. In the second paragraph you will read... "You have open your heart to the Gospel that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of our sins. " This is what I put down...you are saved, I did not say anything to the contrary... And I said that Jesus is knocking on the door of our heart, he wants to correct us about something we have misunderstood...as in the matter of: In the book of revelation 2 or 3....where he said he is knocking on the door of the hearts of some believers seeking to bring some correction in one of their errors... But not all open their heart to him in these matters...and he was able to correct some... The others opposed his correction because they thought or did not discern that it was Jesus knocking...they perceived that it was the enemy and they close the door...of their heart...mistaken that it was not Jesus... Means they remained in their errors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don19 Posted August 2, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 578 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 255 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2020 16 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: What is this ...first time I heard it..."no return policy... That's right. Salvation is irrevocable. And thank God it is! It is a most lovely truth of salvation. Eph 1:13-14: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Eph 4:30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Col 3:3: For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Rev 3:7: And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; Song of Solomon 4:12: A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed. Exo 21:2-6: If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted August 2, 2020 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 244 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,011 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,929 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Online Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted August 2, 2020 4 hours ago, Glory To God said: Quote from you ''In my 66 years of association with all things Biblical and Christian I have never met a non-Calvinist who believed they were the author of their salvation'' Of course you have Michael,they just don't use those words. In fact,every single Armenian thinking person who has ever professed to be a follower of Christ believe that even if it is temporary,and here is the reason: If it is not God alone that saves,free of any partnership with his creation than how are we saved? The answer is we save ourselves with the assistance of God. That is choosing your own destiny that is authoring your own salvation or lack of. That's the basic mechanics behind it,no other way really. So we disagree, and you choose to believe Reformed Dogmas along with your own fabrications as quoted above. You are free to do so within the scope of your own character and experience, but the fact remains that God extends salvation to whosoever will believe in His only begotten Son, John 3:16. I believe God's goodness leads us to repentance, and that while God does harden those who stubbornly resist Him, it is His Will that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9, so I refute the doctrine of Predetermined Reprobation, (which is the theological term for the false teaching that whomever commits evil and sin does so because God has created them to do so, eg. Satan and his cohort, Adam & Eve in Eden, Cain, Esau, Pharoah, Judas, Ananais & Saphira etc, and any unregenerate person who never comes to Christ). This truth I will continue to preach in season and out of season, whether popular or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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