Why can't we blame God for things that happen?

[CaptWalker]

Thank you sir, and I agree that opinions alone without scripture so often causes others to question, which can lead to only more arguments and confusion. Once someone has it in their mind to prove someone else wrong there is very little you can do to change their mind. But i will be the very first one to admit i was/am wrong for not backing up what i say with scripture...and so i again thank you for doing so in this case, even if it only makes me not look so "opinionated"?

Quote

 

 

[CaptWalker]

**Comment Deleted**

Edited August 17, 2020 by CaptWalker

[enoob57]

2 hours ago, Faithwilldo said:

I did not notice anyone giving any scriptures above.  All I read above was opinions.  Here is what scripture says.  

Isa 45:5-7  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6  Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Isa 54:16  Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Ecc 1:13  An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Ecc 7:13  Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?

Prov 16:4  The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Lam 3:38   Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

Isa 63:17   O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear?

Job 2:10   But he said to her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. We have also received good from God, and should we not receive evil?

Dan 4:35  And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? 

Rom 8:28  And we know that all things work together for good (including the evil that God has created) to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Matt 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jer 10:23  I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps. (Darby)

Isa 26:12  O Jehovah, Thou appointest peace to us, For, all our works also Thou hast wrought for us.

God is responsible for all things that happen, including good and evil.  However with God (not mankind), God has the ability to use evil for His good and loving purposes.  

Rom 8:28  And we know that all things work together for good (including the evil that God has created) to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.                                                                                           ↑This is called adding to the text 

clearly God has spoken of Himself in regards to evil this way

1 John 1:5

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
KJV
anyone interpreting Scripture and places darkness (evil) as to come from God violates the fully revealed Word of God...

[Faithwilldo]

1 hour ago, CaptWalker said:

Thank you sir, and I agree that opinions alone without scripture so often causes others to question, which can lead to only more arguments and confusion. Once someone has it in their mind to prove someone else wrong there is very little you can do to change their mind. But i will be the very first one to admit i was/am wrong for not backing up what i say with scripture...and so i again thank you for doing so in this case, even if it only makes me not look so "opinionated"?

 

I take it then that you agree with what these scriptures are teaching???  

Most believers believe only what they are taught by others (not scripture) because what others teach is a view of God that comes from this world.  And what comes from this world is more pleasing to our carnal minds than the truth of God.  In fact, our carnal minds hate the things of God and we reject them every time.

Luke 5:39  And no one having drunk old wine straightway wishes for new, for he says, The old is better.

Rom 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The old wine is the Old Covenant of Law (salvation by works) and the New Wine is the New Covenant of Grace through Faith.  Our carnal minds teach us that we must do something in order to be saved, whether it is being baptized in water or by making a "free will" statement to accept Christ as Lord.  Both are works if you take credit for those decisions.  And since they are "works", they cause us to "fall away" and be broken (lose our salvation).  Our salvation is 100% the work of God within us.  We cannot take credit for even the decision to accept Christ.  That decision that we make is caused by the work of God.  

Eph 2:6-10  and has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, that he might display in the coming ages the surpassing riches of his grace in kindness towards us in Christ Jesus.  For ye are saved by grace, through faith; and this not of yourselves; it is God's gift:  not on the principle of works, that no one might boast.  For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God has before prepared that we should walk in them.

When scripture conflicts with a believer's world view, they usually find creative ways to make scripture match with their false beliefs even when it is very clear that there is a conflict.   Others simply ignore those conflicts and maintain their false beliefs of God.  However, if anyone has a love for the truth, they will put aside their world views and let scripture speak for itself.  

Here is a section of scripture that teaches what happens when one does not have a love for the truth.  

Matt 19:16-22  And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?  And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.  He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.  The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?  Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.  But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Christ always teaches in "spiritual language".  Here Christ is saying to "sell" (get rid of) your false beliefs that you hold dear and give them to the spiritually poor who still hold these false beliefs in high esteem.  Only then can a person begin to follow Christ.  These verses are not speaking about material possessions.  

Joe

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Faithwilldo]

3 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

clearly God has spoken of Himself in regards to evil this way

1 John 1:5

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
KJV
anyone interpreting Scripture and places darkness (evil) as to come from God violates the fully revealed Word of God...

God is not evil (dark) but He clearly says that He uses evil to accomplish good.

[CaptWalker]

My bad, thought you might have been someone else...still hopelessly waiting for God to answer...But that's another story that is apparently no one else's business HERE?? But do kind of agree with the concept of coming to Christ and salvation under no power of our own, and the ideas of anything we do on our own being totally worthless to God even if done in sincerity. But not so sure that all our good works are are complete BS, and they actually do mean something to God in the long run, unless you believe it is all about GRACE and works mean nothing...then this conversation is over right NOW...

[Faithwilldo]

2 minutes ago, CaptWalker said:

My bad, thought you might have been someone else...still hopelessly waiting for God to answer...But that's another story that is apparently no one else's business HERE?? But do kind of agree with the concept of coming to Christ and salvation under no power of our own, and the ideas of anything we do on our own being totally worthless to God even if done in sincerity. But not so sure that all our good works are are complete BS, and they actually do mean something to God in the long run, unless you believe it is all about GRACE and works mean nothing...then this conversation is over right NOW...

The good works that we produce are actually God's good works that He does through us.

Isa 26:12  O Jehovah, Thou appointest peace to us, For, all our works also Thou hast wrought for us.

Also, good works will not save a person.  Faith in Christ (not just believing in Him but also believing what He says) that God gives us is what saves us.  When we mature, we will produce fruits of the spirit and good works but we cannot take credit for them.  God is the potter and we are simply clay.  Anything good that comes from the clay is the work of the potter.  Our salvation is 100% in the hands of God - we contribute nothing.  

Joe

  

 

 

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Faithwilldo said:

God is not evil (dark) but He clearly says that He uses evil to accomplish good.

God gives no place to evil but hell ... to use a thing as you suggest is to give place to it 

Eph 4:27

27 Neither give place to the devil.
KJV

The holiness of God is to not even look upon evil 

Hab 1:13

13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
KJV

To know these truths and then to place God not only thinking about it but utilizing it to bring about His Good is error as clearly taught within Scripture
 

Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV
as we learn here -we know God knows all things yet these are not known by Him for God does not allow iniquity to even enter His Mind...

 

James 3:12

12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
KJV
as The Creator has in creation clearly taught evil has no place or substance of Him it is the perversion of satan in lie and from which evil sprang...
 

John 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
KJV
 

Summarizing: In The eternal past only God in His Persons existed Holy Righteous Perfection of Being (this we know by God's Own witness of Himself) and then God created for His pleasure things along with His Image -man- angels we're not expressly told of their creation but to be foundationed upon God's Word alone we know somewhere between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:14-19 as we know Job was told of their existence was in witnessing the stars being formed

Job 38:1-7

38 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
KJV

we have been told by God where the source of evil has come and even how
 

Ezek 28:14-19

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
KJV
 

As God's Word has now delivered to us all epochs of time unto the eternal state let us rightly divide God's Word 

Eternal past God's Persons holy righteous Being-

creation sanctified-

then the fallen by satan by lies into judgment-

God Law for Adams children to see that fact-

Church age the only escape from sin and wrath of God through God Himself providing-

Eternal future of New Heaven and Earth and all knowledge of this removed so that only holiness, righteousness can be known without end....

the blip in the eternity of God is sin and it shall be made the nothing it is... so now that we have been made aware of the reality of sin we are to give it no place within our being!

[Faithwilldo]

10 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

God gives no place to evil but hell ... to use a thing as you suggest is to give place to it 

Eph 4:27

27 Neither give place to the devil.
KJV

The holiness of God is to not even look upon evil 

Hab 1:13

13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
KJV

To know these truths and then to place God not only thinking about it but utilizing it to bring about His Good is error as clearly taught within Scripture
 

Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV
as we learn here -we know God knows all things yet these are not known by Him for God does not allow iniquity to even enter His Mind...

John 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
KJV
 

Summarizing: In The eternal past only God in His Persons existed Holy Righteous Perfection of Being (this we know by God's Own witness of Himself) and then God created for His pleasure things along with His Image -man- angels were not expressly told of their creation but to be foundationed upon God's Word alone we know somewhere between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:14-19 as we know Job was told of their existence was in witnessing the stars being formed

Job 38:1-7

38 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
KJV

we have been told by God where the source of evil has come and even how
 

Ezek 28:14-19

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
KJV
 

As God's Word has now delivered to us all epochs of time unto the eternal state let us rightly divide God's Word 

Eternal past God's Persons holy righteous Being-

creation sanctified-

then the fallen by satan by lies into judgment-

God Law for Adams children to see that fact-

Chruch age the only escape from sin and wrath of God through God Himself providing-

Eternal future of New Heaven and Earth and all knowledge of this removed so that only holiness, righteousness can be known without end....

the blip in the eternity of sin shall be made the nothing it is so now that we have been made aware of the reality of sin we are to give it no place within our being!

You said:

God gives no place to evil but hell ... to use a thing as you suggest is to give place to it 

Eph 4:27

27 Neither give place to the devil.

God created Satan to be as he is - the father of lies and a destroyer.  He is not a fallen angel or a mistake by God. 

1 John 3:8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

Isa 54:16  Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Also, "hell" is the unseen place.  It does not have fire nor is there anyone there who has consciousness.  Those in "hell" are dead and are not yet saved.  They are awaiting their resurrection to judgment.

You said:

The holiness of God is to not even look upon evil 

Hab 1:13

13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
KJV

To know these truths and then to place God not only thinking about it but utilizing it to bring about His Good is error as clearly taught within Scripture.

The prophet is asking why God "lookest upon them that deal treacherously" because the prophet incorrectly believes that God cannot look upon evil.  Are not the treacherous evil?  Did not Christ look upon the evil in this world constantly?   God not only can look upon evil, He is the creator of evil and He created it to use for His good purposes:

Isa 45:5-7  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:  That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do ALL these things.

Ecc 1:13  An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Judg 9:23  Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

Lam 3:38   Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

Amos 3:6  Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Truly, God is holy but He is not limited to only seeing good.  If He were, then no one would ever be saved.

You said:

Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV
as we learn here -we know God knows all things yet these are not known by Him for God does not allow iniquity to even enter His Mind...

The use of the word "know" in the above verse is speaking about our relationship with Him.  He does not know these believers because they still practice "lawlessness".  In other words, these believers are still attempting to be saved by "works".  And since they are still approaching God through "works", they are still under the Law and not under Grace.  Christ rejects them.

You said:

James 3:12

12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
KJV
as The Creator has in creation clearly taught evil has no place or substance of Him it is the perversion of satan in lie and from which evil sprang...

Here again, you seem to think that if God creates or uses evil, then He Himself must also be evil.  That is not true.  God uses evil for His good purposes.  

Job 2:10   But he said to her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. We have also received good from God, and should we not receive evil? In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

To answer your other comments would be a repetition of what I have already stated.  

God is holy and pure but He does create and use evil for good purposes.  The scriptures I have posted state this very clearly.

Joe

 

[enoob57]

10 minutes ago, Faithwilldo said:

God created Satan to be as he is - the father of lies and a destroyer.  He is not a fallen angel or a mistake by God. 

The Word says of Lucifer
 

Ezek 28:15-16

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
KJV

if I say I found something does not say I placed it there!

which the text further indicates it was His 'multitude of thy merchandise' saying the gifts placed in his use to magnify God lead him to sin/rebel against God....

19 minutes ago, Faithwilldo said:

The prophet is asking why God "lookest upon them that deal treacherously" because the prophet incorrectly believes that God cannot look upon evil.  Are not the treacherous evil?  Did not Christ look upon the evil in this world constantly?   God not only can look upon evil, He is the creator of evil and He created it to use for His good purposes:

light cannot be darkness nor darkness be light just as yes cannot be no and no yes....
Ps 145:17

17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.
KJV
 

30 minutes ago, Faithwilldo said:

God is holy and pure but He does create and use evil for good purposes.  The scriptures I have posted state this very clearly.

just as God has said that the creation bears witness of Him
 

Rom 1:20

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
KJV

so to say God created in His Persons 'evil- moral evil sin'  is to accredit God to sin and that is blashemy.... especially when God testified it was found in Lucifer by reason of his gifts....