What are these spirit things that are inside of us?

[Wesley L]

5 hours ago, Peterlag said:

I have no sin.

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

@Gideon , you applaud to @Peterlag 's statements.

One day, we all stand before the Lord.
We all have to bear the consequences of our words and deeds.
I truly pray that @Peterlag is saved through faith.
But saying that one is without sin... I truly hope he is right and I am wrong. But God's words tells me otherwise.

I pray to God, may God reveal us the truth, give us wisdom to discern His words. 
May His peace and wisdom come upon us. In Jesus' name I pray, amen!

[Gideon]

2 minutes ago, Wesley L said:

@Gideon , you applaud to @Peterlag 's statements.

One day, we all stand before the Lord.
We all have to bear the consequences of our words and deeds.
I truly pray that @Peterlag is saved through faith.
But saying that one is without sin... I truly hope he is right and I am wrong. But God's words tells me otherwise.

I pray to God, may God reveal us the truth, give us wisdom to discern His words. 
May His peace and wisdom come upon us. In Jesus' name I pray, amen!

We must differentiate between sinless perfectionism and being kept from sin by the power of God through faith. One is attained though man's efforts, one through God's ability to keep us from falling. If someone is walking in the new creature, it is done bu faith. Can a man fall in sin? Absolutely. Can a man remain grounded and settled in the faith and not fall at all? Absolutely.  

If it is impossible to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, then it is also impossible to abide in Him.  It is not a question of what we can or cannot do.  We know that answer. But the real question is, can God cause us to will and to do of His good pleasure? 

If we are told that our shields of faith will quench ALL the fiery arrows of the enemy, then if we actually raise them and believe He is fully able to keep us from falling, will God not fulfill His promise to us? Or has unbelief crept into the church to where His promises have been gutted of their delivering power? 

In Hebrews, it talks about the blood of Christ bringing us to the place where we have no more consciousness of sins. This is the place of rest. This is the place where there is no condemnation. The question before us then is this. Do our hearts long for such a place or are we content with being forgiven but not free indeed? 

blessings, 

Gideon

[JohnR7]

6 hours ago, Peterlag said:

Yeah I can because the old wine has been crucified with him...

Jesus started His ministry at the wedding when they ran out of wine and he produced the New Wine. 

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, Gideon said:

We must differentiate between sinless perfectionism and being kept from sin by the power of God through faith.

Sinless Perfection is a term that goes back to Wesley. There was a lot of discussion about this from the very beginning. I went back to read what Wesley himself said about this. His question was if God can deliver us from any sin then why can we not be delivered from all sin? For me I would say it is because we have to want to be delivered. We have to choose to live a life free from sin. 

People want to look back to the early church to see what power they had available to them. Today we are told that we are not to look back, we are to look forward. We are to see the Kingdom age and the power they will have. Everyone has their eyes on the time we now live in. The Kingdom Age is looking back. Paul and the early church even the Old Testament Prophets look forward to a time when the Kingdoms of this world will become the Kingdom of God. 

So if we are going to look back to the Early Church and the power they had to live free from sin, you will find a people that are looking at us today and the power we have available to us. Paul still to this day wants to know how people that are alive today are receiving his teaching from almost 2,000 years ago. He knew he was writing to us at the time, but he did not know how well we were receiving his letters. I do not think he would be very happy with some of the things people claim he said. Because Paul taught that we can live free from sin and he believed that we should live free from sin. 

 

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, Gideon said:

One day, we all stand before the Lord.
We all have to bear the consequences of our words and deeds.

There are five crowns and Jesus Judges us to determine if we are worthy to receive them. Our works will be tested by fire. This is why we are to be on fire for God now so that we can burn sin out of us. Clearly there are going to be people that will suffer loss. 

[Gideon]

30 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

There are five crowns and Jesus Judges us to determine if we are worthy to receive them. Our works will be tested by fire. This is why we are to be on fire for God now so that we can burn sin out of us. Clearly there are going to be people that will suffer loss. 

Just to clarify, the words you quoted me as saying were actually spoken to me by Wesley L. Do I agree with him? Yes. Some will make Heaven but have nothing to show for it. Some will make gain with what He has entrusted to us and receive reward. 

As to being on fire for God, I love what Leonard Ravenhill, a dear English revivalist and friend of David Wilkerson said. 

"I would rather burn out than rust out."

The key is..... what fuels our fire? Is it our diligence? Our emotions? Our determination? Who or what keeps us from falling backwards into complacency? If it is not rooted in our abiding in the vine of Christ Himself as new creatures, believing it is He and He alone who can keep us from falling, we will be subject to ups and downs and more downs than ups, lol. 

What God is presently doing is opening our eyes to His promises to us, both sure and steadfast. They are there and there are plenty of them, but up till now, our eyes have been blinded. All that is about to change.

Can a man choose to not sin? Absolutely! However, in the end, powered by self determination, he will finally conclude as Paul did in Romans 7 that the things he wanted to do, he could not do. Does this mean it is wrong to want to stop sinning? Not at all! Wanting to cease from all sin is highly commendable, for it placed a man on the quick path to seeing his inability to do so, forcing him, like Paul, to cry out to God to do for us what we cannot do, deliver us from evil.

And what does God do when a man's heart cries out as Paul did "O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?" He responds and delivers, of course, for His promises are yea and amen.

There is a secret to walking in this place. The secret is unlocked only to those desperate to be freed from their old carnal nature. And in these last days, that hunger to experience the FREE INDEED Jesus clearly promised us in John 8 will lead multitudes to see the depth that grace really goes. 

A separation is coming. It is called the valley of decision. Some will remain content with forgiveness yet lack any true desire to live free from the grip of their old carnal nature. Others will cry our for true deliverance and rise up with wings as eagles, and discover exactly what God meant when He talked about "the glorious liberty of the children of God". 

God is coming back for a church without spot or wrinkle. We are not it..... yet. ? But the Holy Spirit is beginning to woo all of God's own to a higher place, a safer place, a place of fellowship with Him that makes what we believe possible pale in comparison.

And there, brothers and sisters, we will discover that God meant what He said when He declared that He will indeed keep us from falling. He will indeed cause us to obey Him. He will indeed deliver us from the power of darkness. It is coming. May all prepare their hearts and set their eyes on the author AND the finisher of our faith. Glory!

blessings, 

Gids

[Peterlag]

5 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Sinless Perfection is a term that goes back to Wesley. There was a lot of discussion about this from the very beginning. I went back to read what Wesley himself said about this. His question was if God can deliver us from any sin then why can we not be delivered from all sin? For me I would say it is because we have to want to be delivered. We have to choose to live a life free from sin. 

People want to look back to the early church to see what power they had available to them. Today we are told that we are not to look back, we are to look forward. We are to see the Kingdom age and the power they will have. Everyone has their eyes on the time we now live in. The Kingdom Age is looking back. Paul and the early church even the Old Testament Prophets look forward to a time when the Kingdoms of this world will become the Kingdom of God. 

So if we are going to look back to the Early Church and the power they had to live free from sin, you will find a people that are looking at us today and the power we have available to us. Paul still to this day wants to know how people that are alive today are receiving his teaching from almost 2,000 years ago. He knew he was writing to us at the time, but he did not know how well we were receiving his letters. I do not think he would be very happy with some of the things people claim he said. Because Paul taught that we can live free from sin and he believed that we should live free from sin. 

 

I don't care about Wesley or any other preacher. I'm simply looking at the Scripture and I did not write the book, but I believe I can read it well. It's not a matter of if I want to sin or not. There is no sin in him and I walk in him. In the spirit and this is why it's written...

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

[Peterlag]

7 hours ago, Wesley L said:

@Gideon , you applaud to @Peterlag 's statements.

One day, we all stand before the Lord.
We all have to bear the consequences of our words and deeds.
I truly pray that @Peterlag is saved through faith.
But saying that one is without sin... I truly hope he is right and I am wrong. But God's words tells me otherwise.

I pray to God, may God reveal us the truth, give us wisdom to discern His words. 
May His peace and wisdom come upon us. In Jesus' name I pray, amen!

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Therefore, victory in the Christian life is as simple as renewing our minds to who we are and what we have already received in Christ. It’s not the struggle of two natures inside of us. We will continue to struggle with sin if we see ourselves as old sinners saved by grace. And so it's also true we will manifest the change that took place in our new nature when we understand we are not old sinners saved by grace. Thus, we act like being part of the senses world when we see ourselves as being part of the senses world. We act like being part of the Christian world when we see ourselves as being part of Christ—i.e., in our born-again spirits. I believe God gave us a new nature when we are born again and that this is what the apostle Paul taught.

[Peterlag]

8 hours ago, Wesley L said:

Hi Gideon,

I see now. In KJV it just says sin. I have NASB at home.
But does that change the context of what God truly means?

I am trying to fight against the false belief that a born again christian is without sin. Which is not true.
Everybody in the flesh is prone to sin.
If you promote that born again christians are without sin, the one who says who is now without sin, please step forward.
Maybe I am too young in faith to have encountered such a born again christian. @GideonWould you step forward? @Peterlag Would you step forward? If you wouldn't? Why put a yoke on others with false teachings?

I am not promoting the false belief that a born again christian can sin freely without consequeces.
Our body is the temple of God, The Holy Spirit dwells within. Although still in the flesh, our spirit has been renewed through the Holy Spirit. A born again christian is with fruit and is being sanctified (changes towards righteousness) through the workings of the Holy Spirit.

I am not promoting the false belief that sin is normal for a born again christian and can be taken lightly.
Sin is dead serious, even a white lie or a stolen candy. Our Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins.
 

Missing the mark and keep sinning is bad.
Missing the mark an promoting that we are without sin is bad as well.
The truth is in the middle. We can fall off from both sides of the truth.

Are difference is when you say everyone in the flesh is prone to sin. I write about everyone who is in the spirit.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Therefore, victory in the Christian life is as simple as renewing our minds to who we are and what we have already received in Christ. It’s not the struggle of two natures inside of us. We will continue to struggle with sin if we see ourselves as old sinners saved by grace. And so it's also true we will manifest the change that took place in our new nature when we understand we are not old sinners saved by grace. Thus, we act like being part of the senses world when we see ourselves as being part of the senses world. We act like being part of the Christian world when we see ourselves as being part of Christ—i.e., in our born-again spirits. I believe God gave us a new nature when we are born again and that this is what the apostle Paul taught.

cc: @Gideon

 

@Gideon

 

[JohnR7]

11 hours ago, Gideon said:

Can a man choose to not sin? Absolutely! However, in the end, powered by self determination, he will finally conclude as Paul did in Romans 7 that the things he wanted to do, he could not do. Does this mean it is wrong to want to stop sinning? Not at all! Wanting to cease from all sin is highly commendable, for it placed a man on the quick path to seeing his inability to do so, forcing him, like Paul, to cry out to God to do for us what we cannot do, deliver us from evil.

I actually had a conversation with Paul about this. Although it is more like he gave me a packet of information that I am still processing. Paul wrote: "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10) Actually what was written is: "They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Psalm 14:3) What David is talking about is the law. We know that we become right with God through Holiness and Sanctification. Paul would ask why are we not living right before God. He fully expects that we can and that we should be living a righteous life before God. Even today there are 613 laws that the conservative or religious "Jewish" people follow. When I ask them how can they add to what we received from Moses they can not answer me. Jesus clearly teaches that it is enough to follow what we receive from Moses. We do not need to add to that. "They tie up heavy, burdensome loads and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them." (matthew 23:4)

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,

Edited August 25, 2020 by JohnR7