Peterlag Posted October 4, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 10 hours ago, David1701 said: The faith that God gives you. Once he has given it to you, it is your faith in Jesus Christ. Eph. 2:8 (EMTV) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, It's totally impossible that my little human trust in Jesus could bring about the righteousness of God. Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's totally impossible that my believing in Jesus Christ could cause me to be justified. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 4, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,859 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,763 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2020 11 hours ago, Peterlag said: It's totally impossible that my little human trust in Jesus could bring about the righteousness of God. Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's totally impossible that my believing in Jesus Christ could cause me to be justified. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ***** What are you trying to say... Not to believe to Jesus Christ who said to Nicodemus: when you see me lifted up they way Moses lifted up the bronze Serpent in the desert and then when you believe in me that I am the Messiah sent by God... then you will be born from above... Are you following Jesus Christ who said: if I do not die nothing will happen just before his death on the Cross.... Jesus believe something will happen that cannot happen unless he dies on the Cross.... Jesus is telling us something has not happened yet and the only way for it to happen is for him to die on the Cross....there is no any other way to have forgiveness in the blood of God's Lamb unless he sheds his blood on the Cross...the blood of the New Covenant pour out for the forgiveness of our sins... Do you believe that? If you believe it, then why you are talking like you do not have forgiveness of sins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted October 4, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.53 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2020 11 hours ago, Peterlag said: It's totally impossible that my little human trust in Jesus could bring about the righteousness of God. Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's totally impossible that my believing in Jesus Christ could cause me to be justified. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's NOT your "little human trust in Jesus". It is a supernatural, God-given, God-empowered, grace-gift; and it does not cause you to be justified, it is the means by which God gives you your justification. That justification was accomplished on the cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 5, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 Perhaps it would be helpful if I posted what faith is... In the New Testament “faith” is most often translated from the Greek noun pistis (#4102 πίστις), which like many other Greek words has several meanings including “trust” Romans 3:38, 1 Corintians 15:14, “faithfulness and reliability” (Proverbs 12:22, Matthew 23:23, Romans 3:3, Galatians 5:22, and “proof and pledge” (Acts 17:31). Also we find pistis in the New Testament and later Christian writings being used as a designation for the entire scope of religious practices and beliefs of the followers of Jesus as in “the Christian Faith” (Galatians 1:23). “Faithfulness” and “trust” were both very common meanings of pistis and that is why it was also used in the everyday Greek-speaking world. However, pistis in the New Testament means “trust” much more than it does “faithfulness” and when pistis is translated “faith” in phrases like “faith in God” or “faith in Christ” or “have faith” it means “trust” or “confidence” or “assurance.”The early Christians would have readily perceived the meaning of pistis as “trust” or “confidence” and that meaning can be easily confirmed by checking any good biblical lexicon or Bible dictionary such as the following... “With the predominant idea of trust (or confidence)” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament). “Firm persuasion, a conviction based upon hearing” (Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words). “Firm persuasion” (A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by E.W. Bullinger). “State of believing on the basis of the reliability of the one trusted; trust, confidence” (A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, W. Arndt and Wilber Gingrich, 2000; usually abbreviated “BDAG”). “It is the attitude of complete trust in Christ...” (The New Bible Dictionary). “In the New Testament, ‘faith’ is used in a number of ways, but primarily with the meaning ‘trust’ or ‘confidence’ in God” (Hollman Bible Dictionary). We read in Hebrews 11:1 “Now faith [pistis] is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see” (NIV). The NASB uses slightly different vocabulary but gives the same message which is “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” So the Bible itself defines pistis as assurance or confidence in something and a good way to express that in English is by the word “trust.” Faith has been defined and explained so many different ways that it's a difficult concept to grasp, but “trust” is simple to understand. The lexical sources listed above defined it when they defined pistis as a confidence, a firm persuasion, a conviction based on the reliability, or trustworthiness... of the person or thing that is trusted. Trust also has to have an object and by that I mean something that is trusted. The human mind cannot “just trust” because we have to trust something. It can be God, our spouse, our friend, or even that the sun will come up tomorrow, but trust requires an object because we have to trust some trustworthy thing. And our trust does not make or force anything to happen. We trust the sun will come up, but that does not make it come up. We trust that our so-far-always-reliable-car will start when we turn the key, but that does not make it start. We trust our friend will help us in a pinch, but that does not force them to help. We trust God loves us, but that does not make Him help us in any given situation. Pistis (trust... faith) is not a force because it does not make things happen. It's easy to see why pistis, which means “trust” or “confidence” came to be translated “faith” in our English Bibles. The Latin word fides (pronounced feeˈ-dace), which means “trust” was often used to translate the Greek word pistis when the New Testament was translated into Latin and fides was a good translation because just as the Greek word pistis meant “trust or confidence” so did the Latin word fides. The Latin word fides became the root of the English word “faith” as the English language developed many centuries later as also did the word “fidelity." The English word “trust” has Indo-European roots and came into our language via the Old Norse which is very different from the Latin root “fidelity." The English language was built over time from many different word-roots, which is a major reason why modern English has so many different words that seem to mean the same thing. The statement “take it by faith” has echoed throughout Christianity for centuries, but it never occurs in the Bible and is not a biblical concept. We cannot make ourselves trust something that is untrustworthy or that we do not understand. This concept is not well understood. It's often said “I don’t understand electricity but I trust it.” That statement is not actually correct. What most people trust about electricity is that it works because the light always comes on when we flip the switch and we always get shocked if we touch the “hot” wire. That's not “trusting electricity” as much as it's trusting that electricity reliably does certain things—and we do understand and thus trust that part. Translating pistis as “faith” instead of “trust” has obscured the simple truth that we don’t trust what we don’t understand. Most people are not really sure of what “faith” is and so they accept the Church teaching that they can have faith in something they don’t understand. We can “accept” something and not argue about it even if we don’t understand it, but “accepting” something is not “trust.” Once we realize pistis means “trust” is when we can understand that the phrase “take it by faith” is equivalent to “just trust me.” We become suspicious and are inclined not to trust a salesperson when they say “just trust me” and so we should also think twice when someone is talking about a biblical subject and says “just take it by faith.” It should be a signal to us when a person teaching cannot explain the doctrine they are teaching and or that the doctrine is untrustworthy when we are told to “take it by faith.” The biblical meaning of the Greek word pistis is “trust” but that is not its primary meaning “on the street” today. Many Christians and most non-Christians think “faith” means “firm belief in something for which there is no proof” (Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, 11th edition, 2004). Often that definition has been used to ridicule Christians and admittedly “believing in something for which there is no proof” and that seems like a questionable practice. So how did that non-biblical definition of “faith” develop? Doctrines were brought into Christianity over the centuries that were not biblically sound and some were not even logical. When those doctrines were questioned because there was no proper biblical answer is why the answer often given by the church authorities was simply “take it by faith.” The history of the Christian Church has many examples of wonderful Christians who were pressured or tortured into taking things “by faith” that did not make sense to them. Thus, over time “faith” came to mean a belief in something for which there is no proof, and the average Christian is not enough of a linguist to know that the commonly accepted definition of faith is not the actual biblical definition of the Greek and Latin text, and so they wrongly think that “belief in something for which there is no proof” is a biblical definition of “faith.” The meaning of faith changed again for many Christians in the 20th century although the meaning of “belief in something for which there is no proof” has remained alongside the newer meaning. In what is now called “the Word of Faith Movement” is how the word “faith” has come to denote a power or force of the mind that can appropriate things that can force God or “the universe” to bring things to pass. Many denominations reject the teaching of the Word of Faith Movement because they believe biblically that “faith” is not a force or a power of the mind. However, millions of Christians believe the biblical word “faith” means a power of the mind that can bring material things into one’s life, move mountains, produce healing and bring financial wealth. Let’s say you have a friend whose car is being fixed and so you offer to give them a ride to work. They trust you will actually show up and give them the ride and so they accept. Then because you are trustworthy is why you keep your promise and give them the ride. But did their trust in you somehow force you to give them the ride? Their trust gave them the confidence to be ready to be picked up at an appointed time, but it was your power that supplied the ride. Furthermore, you did not have to offer them the ride in the first place even though they were a trusting friend. At no point did the fact that they trusted you force you to act on their behalf. Biblical trust works the same way and this is why we trust that God can heal, but that does not force Him to heal, and our trust does not give us the power to heal without God. The fact that our trust in God does not “make” things happen explains why “faith” seems to fail so often. The Word of Faith Christian ministers and power of the mind unbelievers both believe in a "law" based on the power of the mind that allows people to get what they want by somehow affecting the physical world. One of the problems with the doctrine of the Word of Faith Movement and non-Christian groups that teach about the power of the mind is that it puts the emphasis on the individual—you. Since most of these groups teach that it's a “law” that if you have faith you can bring into your life whatever you want is how it puts the pressure on “you.” Kenneth Hagin, a Word of Faith minister once wrote “That’s what you’ve got to learn to do to get things from God... have faith in your faith” (Having Faith in Your Faith, p. 5). E. W. Kenyon is one of the founders of the Faith Movement who wrote in his book "The Two Kinds of Faith" that “faith in your own faith is the law of success in the realm of the spirit” (p. 36). Kenneth Copeland wrote “faith is a power force. It's a tangible force. It's a conductive force. It will move things. Faith is a spiritual force” (The Force of Faith p. 13). The Word of Faith ministers say the problem is “you” when this “law” is not working in your life. We need to become clear that “having faith in your faith” is nothing more than having faith in yourself and that is not what Jesus said to do to accomplish God’s will in your life. Word of Faith ministers teach you can make things happen in the physical world by your faith and so it's common to hear them use the phrase “have faith for” or “believe for." Many Christians are surprised to learn that no phrase like “have faith for” occurs in the Bible. The reason is simple because we don’t have the power to make things happen. God has the power. This is why we read in the Scriptures to “pray for” because we can’t “believe for” things and make them happen, but we can “pray for” things and let God make them happen. The wrong doctrine in the Word of Faith Movement about “faith” has obscured the right doctrine about “trust.” The teaching of the Word of Faith Movement has infiltrated so much of Christian thinking that for many Christians “trust” is not a good translation of pistis. Many Christians think “faith is much bigger than trust” and this is a serious problem since pistis is not “bigger than trust” because pistis is “trust.” No ancient Greek speaker would have thought pistis referred to a power or force of the mind, and they would not have thought that their own mind could tap into a spiritual “law” in such a way that they could just have pistis and then the universe would have to respond to them. Could it be possible God created us in such a way that we too are not happy when people do not trust us— and similarly could it be possible that He is not happy when people don’t trust Him? https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/no_photo.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhchristian Posted October 6, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2020 On 10/3/2020 at 10:31 PM, Peterlag said: It's totally impossible that my little human trust in Jesus could bring about the righteousness of God. Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's totally impossible that my believing in Jesus Christ could cause me to be justified. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Amen!, The Simplicity vs. the complexity. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2 Cor. 11:3) The adjective of this noun simplicity is the word used for singleness, as in the following passage. The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! (matt. 6:22-23) For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward. (2 Cor. 1;12) Complexity of mind is never the answer, The Grace of God is simple, Unmerited favor, We can do Nothing apart from the grace of God. But by His Grace and through HIS faith we can move mountains. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (John 15:5) As the Old Hymn puts it," I Need thee every hour" I need Thee every hour, most gracious Lord; No tender voice like Thine can peace afford. Refrain: I need Thee, oh, I need Thee; Every hour I need Thee; Oh, bless me now, my Savior, I come to Thee. I need Thee every hour, stay Thou nearby; Temptations lose their pow’r when Thou art nigh. I need Thee every hour, in joy or pain; Come quickly and abide, or life is vain. I need Thee every hour; teach me Thy will; And Thy rich promises in me fulfill. I need Thee every hour, most Holy One; Oh, make me Thine indeed, Thou blessed Son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 7, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 14 hours ago, Chicken coop2 said: Maybe he has you blocked. Blocking people is rude is it not? There are many Christians who believe what God wrought in Christ came about because of the faith of Jesus Christ. Maybe not the few who post here. But many all over the world understand this. It seems very clear in Acts 3:16 that nobody dared comment on concerning the faith of Jesus Christ that caused the healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 7, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 14 hours ago, dhchristian said: Amen!, The Simplicity vs. the complexity. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. (2 Cor. 11:3) The adjective of this noun simplicity is the word used for singleness, as in the following passage. The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! (matt. 6:22-23) For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward. (2 Cor. 1;12) Complexity of mind is never the answer, The Grace of God is simple, Unmerited favor, We can do Nothing apart from the grace of God. But by His Grace and through HIS faith we can move mountains. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (John 15:5) As the Old Hymn puts it," I Need thee every hour" I need Thee every hour, most gracious Lord; No tender voice like Thine can peace afford. Refrain: I need Thee, oh, I need Thee; Every hour I need Thee; Oh, bless me now, my Savior, I come to Thee. I need Thee every hour, stay Thou nearby; Temptations lose their pow’r when Thou art nigh. I need Thee every hour, in joy or pain; Come quickly and abide, or life is vain. I need Thee every hour; teach me Thy will; And Thy rich promises in me fulfill. I need Thee every hour, most Holy One; Oh, make me Thine indeed, Thou blessed Son. Are you saying you see it too? That it's by his faith and not mine that brought about salvation for the whole world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 7, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,859 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,763 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2020 9 hours ago, Peterlag said: Are you saying you see it too? That it's by his faith and not mine that brought about salvation for the whole world? ****** Jesus Christ where he is he judges everyone according to their faith in him...that he died on the Cross for our sins... But you are giving a strange twist to it... Our faith is influenced in every possible way through a lot of variables... And the Holy Spirit gives us gifts of healing and other kind of gifts the way Jesus did when he sojourn in Israel... He took it upon himself to do many things...and other times he was guided and he obeyed...it's not only this or that... Everything matters...he still does the same as he has always does....and we do not always know... Where he is now he is helping people to believe...the Holy Spirit helps and people help...one way or another... And the devil helps people to denied Jesus, to depend on their faith in God..and their own righteousness and good works and to believe in Love, but they refuse to believe in Jesus Christ... Where Jesus is now and since two thousand years ago...he has everything...he got what he believed it had to be his... Now he judges everyone according to their faith in him...that he died on the Cross for our sins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted October 7, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,211 Content Per Day: 7.07 Reputation: 13,210 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2020 11 hours ago, Peterlag said: Blocking people is rude is it not? Not necessarily. Consider that the Lord refused to answer some as recorded in the Gospels. Here's an example from the Gospel of Luke: And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders, And spake unto him, saying, Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority? And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me: The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not? But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet. And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was. And Jesus said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things. (Luke 20:1-8) The Lord also ignored the Canaanite woman from Matthew 15. A member may have various reasons for ignoring another member; proclaiming this to be rude assumes much on your part. Are you privy to the reasons why someone feels ignoring another member is needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhchristian Posted October 8, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2020 20 hours ago, Peterlag said: Are you saying you see it too? That it's by his faith and not mine that brought about salvation for the whole world? Yes. This is what the ultimate goal of the doctrine of rest is all about. This is what coming to the fulness of Christ is all about, and what the Post modern church has lost. Quite simply this is the difference between humanism in the guise of Christianity and true Christianity. Without Him we can do nothing, its as simple as amazing Grace, and resting in that Grace. Many will use the doctrine of rest as an excuse for complacency, But when rightly understood there is continual growth For those who find this rest. The Faith Of Christ is the key to this, as His faith is what creates the growth in us, All we have to do is surrender to Him Fully, let him be the Pilot, Not the co-pilot. Our strength and will is what interferes with His work in us. When we are out of the way, he can bring that growth and sanctification. Christian humanism says Christ plus me, true Christianity says Christ is my all in all. The denial of this need is the very heart of the problem in this Laodicean age and many are living in this denial of their need as outlined in that letter. Whether you agree with my understanding of this being the Laodicean church age and we all being part of it, or not, what you are glimpsing is the heart of this self deception, which ties into the strong delusion of the end times. I read you are not "into" Revelation here, perhaps this will inspire you to do so. I Encourage you to study this and let the Holy Ghost teach you, if you approach it without any preconceptions and let him teach you, there is great blessing in studying this Book. If you start with a preconceived theory such as pre-trib rapture or this book is only for Jews, you will miss out on the blessing and simplicity of it and be overwhelmed by the complexity. The Simple key in this is understanding that there is no eighth church age, as the church grows into the fulness of Christ, or in some cases are exposed as the tares they are. This is why so many have a hard time understanding and seeing what you are seeing.... God has given you eyes to see this (The eyesalve of God), now seek out the Gold refined in the fire. God Bless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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