Peterlag Posted October 30, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Peterlag said: Nice... Real Nice. "it cannot be grasped by the carnal mind and therein lies the problem..." Where is @Gideon? Is he well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhchristian Posted October 30, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 136 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,488 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 1,325 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2020 8 hours ago, Peterlag said: Nice... Real Nice. "it cannot be grasped by the carnal mind and therein lies the problem..." Can the mods please post my "hidden" comment on page 57. There is nothing offensive in that comment and will help this conversation along towards the truth of what is being shown here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 31, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 17 hours ago, Josheb said: Yep, that's what the scriptures teach and they teach these things within the undeniable context of the apostles and the early Christians sinning after conversion/regeneration. Peter was admonished for his hypocrisy and double standards held ot to Jewish and Gentile converts. The believers in the Corinth ekklesia were a mess, with one many having sexual relations with his (step)mother. John quite plainly stated is we say we are without sin then we're lying. Reconcile these two sets of scriptures, one set describing victory over sin and the other describing Christians sinning. Feel free to post a verse that says Christians were sinning or Christians sinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 31, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,859 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,763 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2020 8 hours ago, Peterlag said: Feel free to post a verse that says Christians were sinning or Christians sinned. Feel free to post a verse that Peter said: "I am a Christian". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted November 1, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,859 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,763 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) This episode with Peter happened long time after Jesus Christ had shown to Peter that he had cleansed the whole world with his death on the Cross... Peter knew that they are not anymore Unclean people in the world... Both Jews and the rest of the world were cleansed by Jesus death on the Cross...including everyone who had died before Jesus Christ... The new man in the world is a clean man in his sins... Everyone was called to believe in Jesus Christ bot to be in his sins... God is for the whole world those who were excluded are now included and those who were included were excluded so they all can be included by the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross... The ruling Jews in Jerusalem were still under the guidance of the Law of Moses... And everyone in Jerusalem was ruled by the Law of Moses they still believed that God was only for the offsprings of Abraham... The term Gentile means rejected people from God...God refusing to be their God because they were "vdeligma""abomination" to him, and not fault of their own... Peter had to minister to the Jews in Jerusalem... Peter was right to keep himself clean according to the Jewish customs... Not only to be able to do his ministry in the Kosher Jerusalem but also to be Kosher to the many of the Jews believers who lived in Kosher homes among unbelieving family members...they had to keep them selves clean from the Gentile contamination... Peter was guided by the Holy Spirit... This event helped Paul how important that was for those living in Jerusalem that next time had Timothy Circumcised before he visit Jerusalem... So Timothy could freely interact with the believing and unbelieving Jews without any offence to anyone... And being in Jerusalem do not go away without visiting the Temple... What a super great moment would that have been for Timothy...what an historic moment for him... This event happened Galatians 2:1, after more than 14 years of Paul's conversion... No one sin...to discussed and argued ones understanding with cencirity the way Peter argued with Jesus even rebuking Jesus who was saying that he has to die is not a sin...Jesus never said that any of his disciples had sin during those years... The term of sinner that time was for those rejected by God....the Gentiles and those cut off from the Law... The Nation was a Holy Nation...they were for generations born to live Holy living... They call it the Holy City of Jerusalem...life there was very strict... Edited November 1, 2020 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted November 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 On 10/29/2020 at 11:34 AM, dhchristian said: Why would I "oyvey" Peter for posting what Is a brilliant assessment of a scriptural error that has pervaded the modern church, that is leading a majority of Christians down the wrong path of Humanism as opposed to true faith? To the contrary I will praise him for it, just as @Gideon was doing the same and others who have been run off this site by those humanistic easy-believism Christians. Is this me or Peter or Gideon being Harsh and mean spirited? No It is us trying to obey scriptures to reprove rebuke and exhort those who are falling in all love for them. The Faith of the church has morphed from the faith OF Jesus to the faith IN Jesus which is the Humanistic translation of these verses. The focus has gone from what Jesus Does and resting in His promises to what we do and as a result the church is largely powerless and dying in narcissism, a look at me and how much better i am attitude all the while they are wretched miserable pitiable naked and Blind... the self delusion of the Laodicean church. It is the very mind that you hold in such high esteem, the carnal mind that is leading to that delusion of prosperity and the lack of need of anything. Holiness is learning to rest in the provision of God, learning to trust fully in what he has done, Not as a license to sin but as a desire to be with him fully and whole heartedly.... to learn to love the Lord your God with all your heart. Read the following from Tozer and compare it to modern Christianity.... This in a nutshell is the faith OF Jesus. Compare this to the modern churches view where Jesus is something we mold into our image and you will see the difference. What Is Faith? Remember that faith is not a noble quality found only in superior men. It is not a virtue attainable by a limited few. It is not the ability to persuade ourselves that black is white or that something we desire will come to pass if we only wish hard enough. Faith is simply the bringing of our minds into accord with the truth. It is adjusting our expectations to the promises of God in complete assurance that the God of the whole earth cannot lie. A man looks at a mountain and affirms, "That is a mountain." There is no particular virtue in the affirmation. It is simply accepting the fact that stands before him and bringing his belief into accord with the fact. The man does not create the mountain by believing, nor could he annihilate it by denying. And so with the truth of God. The believing man accepts a promise of God as a fact as solid as a mountain and vastly more enduring. His faith changes nothing except his own personal relation to the word of promise. God's Word is true whether we believe it or not. Human unbelief cannot alter the character of God. Faith is subjective, but it is sound only when it corresponds with objective reality. The man's faith in the mountain is valid only because the mountain is there; otherwise it would be mere imagination and would need to be sharply corrected to rescue the man from harmful delusion. So God is what He is in Himself. He does not become what we believe. "I AM That I AM." We are on safe ground only when we know what kind of God He is and adjust our entire being to the holy concept. http://www.cmalliance.org/devotions/tozer?id=495 The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art. In Colossians we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..." Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted November 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 14 hours ago, Drafido said: The couple in the book of Acts that lied about their property and died suddenly when Peter spoke to them. They were Christians. I'm sure there are loads of passages in the Bible about Christians sinning. David, though not a "Christian" per se, sinned and the Holy Spirit left him only to come back later when he repented. The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art. In Colossians we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..." Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted November 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 12 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: Feel free to post a verse that Peter said: "I am a Christian". Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted November 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 8 hours ago, Josheb said: Certainly, Galatians 2:11-14 "But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, 'If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?'" Do please feel free to 1) acknowledge the truth of scripture, 2) acknowledge Peter was guilty of the sins of hypocrisy and not being straightforward with the truth of the gospel, 3) causing another believer to fall into sin, 4) acknowledge you were wrong, and 5) don't post contrary to scripture. See also, 1 Corinthians 5:1-2 "It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst." Who is the "you" in these verses? According to the opening of the letter it is, "the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." In other words, not only was there a member of the body of Christ sexual sin but other members of the ekklesia did nothing about, having become arrogant. So do please feel free to 1) acknowledge the truth of scripture, 2) acknowledge those who called upon Christ as Lord were guilty of sin, 3) acknowledge you were wrong, and 4) don't post contrary to scripture. He later told this very same church of Christians he wrote, 1 Corinthians 11:20-22 "Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper, for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk. What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you." And still later he wrote, 1 Corinthians 15:34 "Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame." Surely you understand drunkenness and the abuse of the Lord's supper are sins. Surely it is also understood Paul certainly wouldn't need to tell them to stop sinning if they weren't sinning. Logic is our friend . They would have no shame if they were no longer sinning. So, again, do please feel free to 1) acknowledge the truth of scripture, 2) acknowledge those who called upon Christ as Lord were guilty of sin, 3) acknowledge you were wrong, and 4) don't post contrary to scripture. Let us not forget Ananias, Acts 4:32-5:4 "And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them. And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and lay them at the apostles' feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need. Now Joseph, a Levite of Cyprian birth, who was also called Barnabas by the apostles (which translated means Son of Encouragement), and who owned a tract of land, sold it and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet. But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife's full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, 'Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.'" Ananias, a member of the congregation of those who believed lied to God. That is sin. So, once more, do please feel free to 1) acknowledge the truth of scripture, 2) acknowledge those who called upon Christ as Lord were guilty of sin, 3) acknowledge you were wrong, and 4) don't post contrary to scripture. Still again, Paul wrote Timothy, 1 Timothy 6:20-21 "O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called 'knowledge' — which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you." They implicitly had "the faith" and subsequently went astray. Do please feel free to 1) acknowledge the truth of scripture, 2) acknowledge those who called upon Christ as Lord were guilty of sin, 3) acknowledge you were wrong, and 4) don't post contrary to scripture. There are many other examples in the New Testament of Christians sinning but I will note only one more for now: Revelation 2:18-20 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: The Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and his feet are like burnished bronze, says this: 'I know your deeds, and your love and faith and service and perseverance, and that your deeds of late are greater than at first. ~'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads my bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols." I should not have to post any of these verses because fundamentally we necessarily understand there would be absolutely no need for the apostles to write about, nor believers In Christ to practice confession, repentance, restitution, forgiveness or reconciliation if Christians never sin. We just don't agree on how we see the Scriptures. My take is we are either walking in him (in the spirit) or we are walking in our flesh. And I believe this is why Galatians says walk in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. I wrote it this way last year... The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art. In Colossians we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..." Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted November 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 1, 2020 The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art. In Colossians we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..." Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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