Justin Adams Posted January 27, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.94 Reputation: 7,798 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2021 10 hours ago, David1701 said: In our nature, unless God makes us born again, we are all children of wrath That we will sin is a given. But our fallen and selfishness stems mostly from the environment and not any inherited guilt. There are passages you know well that attest to the innocence of people until that age of accountability. Most of Leviticus focusses on the method God decided to make humans fir for Sacred Places/Spaces. This is because we are 'not clean' and need cleansing. It is a complex and much talked about issue. The bottom line in my mind is that we ONLY will answer for our OWN transgressions. God even says (as you well know) that often people do that which is pleasing to Him. He is not constantly 'wrathful' every time we tie our shoe laces or clean our teeth. If you think God is looking for places in our lives that He can vent His Wrath, then you have a poor notion of the Love of God. This can be misleading for new Christians and the faithful at large. I will thus not banter further and drag this out. You have your 'perfectly thought out position' and I have mine. I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I admit to that. I will leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.52 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, Justin Adams said: That we will sin is a given. But our fallen and selfishness stems mostly from the environment and not any inherited guilt. There are passages you know well that attest to the innocence of people until that age of accountability. My post was not about inherited guilt but about our inherited fallen nature. As the Bible says, we are, by nature, children of wrath. In other words, our very nature (and not only the acts that result from that nature) is deserving of God's wrath. It is an evil nature (unless God makes us born again), with evil desires, resulting in evil thoughts, words and deeds. This is not how God made man originally (he pronounced everything to be "very good"), which means that Adam's fall resulted in our evil nature. On a human-to-human level, not everything that fallen man does is evil; in fact, many things are helpful and caring; but, and this is very important, on a human-to-God level, nothing that the unbeliever does is pleasing to God, because it is done in rebellion against God, in unbelief and in idolatry. Our sin is not caused by our environment, but by our nature. Unbelievers could live in a perfect environment but would still sin constantly, because they are, by nature, children of wrath. The fact that fallen men are surrounded by the sin of others and temptations, increases the outward manifestation of sinfulness, but does not cause it. Matt. 7:17,18 (EMTV) 17 Thus every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. It is the nature of the tree that determines its fruit, not its environment. Quote I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I admit to that. I think that you are quite sharp. I would certainly not denigrate you; but we all need to learn things in different areas. Edited January 28, 2021 by David1701 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR7 Posted May 1, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,907 Content Per Day: 1.28 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1952 Share Posted May 1, 2021 On 12/11/2020 at 2:00 AM, kingdombrat said: So in your viewpoint, do you see Adam as being the first human to fully evolve into what we clarify as homo-sapien? Adam was the first of many things. He was the first husband, he was the first food producer. He was the beginning of civilization. Science can trace the beginning of the agricultural revolution from the middle east as it was taken to europe. Civil engineering is a big thick book on how to plan and build a city. If it were not for Noah domesticated plants and animals would have perished in the flood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR7 Posted May 1, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,907 Content Per Day: 1.28 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1952 Share Posted May 1, 2021 On 12/10/2020 at 3:21 PM, kingdombrat said: If humanity arrived from the process of Evolution, wouldn't those be without [SIN}? David talks about this but I am not sure how to apply this to your question. Psalm 102 "25In the beginning You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. 26They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing You will change them, and they will be passed on. 27But You remain the same, and Your years will never end" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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