Faith without Works is Dead

[JohnD]

If this was meant for an Old Covenant division of the Jews, then why the New Testament

references that I cited and highlighted???

Where in those New Testament texts does it say the Jews? The captivity?

Ephesians 4:8-10 speaks of the captivity (in Abraham's Bosom see Luke 16:19-31) already

being tale to heaven in that 3 hour window between the death of Christ on the cross at 3PM

and sunset see Luke 23:43).

[Bro.Tan]

On 3/7/2021 at 9:50 AM, JohnD said:

This has been fulfilled in part by the Jews' return to the Holy Land and the Messiah in their midst. It will be finally fulfilled in the Great Tribulation.

Where the verse and scripture, that's going to override what I post in Deuteronomy 30th chapter?

[Eternally Gratefull]

¹⁴ What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

 

I think the first thing we need to do is look at the main subject line of the passage.

1. We see it is a claimed faith

2. We are never told it is a real faith

3. James is asking the question, Can this "claimed faith" save them.

 

The second thing we have to do is determine what real faith is.

When we investigate, we see faith is the substance of things hopped for the evidence of things not seen

in this passage written to the hebrews, we see that faith and things seen (such as works) are not related. Faith is based on a hope. We hope to recieve something, be it protection, Guidance, Love and we act on that hope. In other words. When we place our trust in someone. we tend to walk with them. Not against them while ignoring everything they say and do.

Scripture says our hope is eternal life Which God, who can not lie, promised before time began.

It also says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

The word of God tells us we are sinners. As such, we are under the curse of the law. The curse of the law is death, After the ten commands were given, Moses made the Children of Israel confirm an oath, That oath was to confirm and obey every word. Failure to do so would result in a curse.

James said, if we kept the whole law our entire life, yet stumble (you stumble on accident) in one area. Your guilty of all. The ten commands written on stone, (the ministers of death) curse everyone who does not obey every word. IE, perfection is required. Only one man met that standard, that man is Christ. As paul said, for ALL have sinned and fall short.

Scripture also says he who knew no sin was made sin so we may be given the righteousness of Christ. That God sent his son, that whoever believes will never die but has eternal life. That is it not based on works of righteousness which we have done, but on his mercy he saved us.

We are sealed by the Holy Spirit. We have been given every gift in heaven and an inheritance, We have been given the power to become children of God through this faith that james is talking about.

 

We see in Eph 2 that we have been saved by grace through faith not work. But those made new creatures will perform the works God created them to do

 

Hebrews gives us the faith hall of faith. Those fathers and mothers who in hope went even though they did not see, And through this faith completed the works

 

You do not say you trust someone, then never do what they say, Never try to be like them. Always look to self. Being hearers of the word not doers. Those who claim they have faith but are only hearers and never doers. Well as james said their faith is dead. Lifeless.

 

What does that mean? Well we go back to the beginning, can that faith save them? The answer is no. I never did. Which is another reason they never showed works. Works do not come from self. they come from Gd and the power of the HS. If you have never been given the HS you will never produce works.

 

Remember, these people went to church, To an outsider, they were probably christian, Because they did some things that christians do. So one thing James is not talking about here is christian deeds. He is talking about works which produce fruit. Anyone can do works, even non believers. James is not talking about htose works. Just because people look like Christians does not mean they ever had saving faith.

 

Also. to end. James is not telling us to be fruit inspectors. he is telling people to examine their own faith, Is your faith real or your faith Dead. We are not God we can not tell a persons true heart. And we should not twist this passage into saying we should inspect fruit of people to see if they are really christian or not. Or to add works to the gospel

The HOPE of eternal life is what faith is based on. If I have no assurance of eternal life. I really have no hope. No hope = no real faith.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

On 3/7/2021 at 9:56 AM, JohnD said:

If this was meant for an Old Covenant division of the Jews, then why the New Testament

references that I cited and highlighted???

Where in those New Testament texts does it say the Jews? The captivity?

Ephesians 4:8-10 speaks of the captivity (in Abraham's Bosom see Luke 16:19-31) already

being tale to heaven in that 3 hour window between the death of Christ on the cross at 3PM

and sunset see Luke 23:43).

You have to take the time and read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation to understand the whole story and pray for understanding. Most people don't really read the book and don't know was really going on. When Jesus came in his time  there was only three tribes out of twelve tribes. The rebuilding of temple started in Ezra. Paul made statement concerning the people of Israel in Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Now Jesus foretold the rest of the captivity in Luke 20: 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

This is Roman Titus who did this in time. So the Gentile times not be done until the second coming of Jesus.

 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

So this what will happen if one refuse to change and repent from wilful sinning, Paul said in "1 Corinthians 6:9" Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Let continue with Paul. Let go into Galatians 5: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now Paul said in Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 

Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Now lets understand and reason together, Paul just gave us a run down on condition of sins. People who are behaving in such manner will not inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, even those who are unclean. Being unclean does not mean a person doesn’t wash up, we are not talking about soap and water. We are talking about defiling the body, with unholiness or unGodliness, being an abomination.   

Jesus said in (John 17:3-4) (v.3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (v.4) I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Yes Jesus did much work. He is the captain of our salvation and the captain is leading by his example, by his works.

Paul said in (Phil. 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Now if you need not work, then why is Paul telling you to “WORK” out your own salvation, and pay close attention because he also says with “fear and trembling”.

Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you must keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me.

Paul said in (Heb. 6:10-11) (v.10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. (v.11) And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to full assurance of hope unto the end: God is not going to forget your works, nor your labor of love toward his name. But you need to show these same works diligence to have full assurance of hope unto the end. Hope of what? Hope of eternal life. To the end of what? To the end of your life or to the coming of the Lord. You must work until the end! Jesus said in (Rev. 2:26) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: As you keep the Commandments, Statues and his Judgements for a while, until thou have learn them. Then you can work in the vineyard and teach people the word of God.

 

 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

Again you must work unto the end. (1Peter 1:15-17) (v.15) But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all Manner of conversation; (v.16) Because it is written, BE YE HOLY; FOR I AM HOLY. (V.17) And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: It says you had better be holy, because God is holy. And it also says that ye call on the Father, but you had better remember that he is going to without respect of person judge every man according to his work. So you better pass your time here on earth in fear.

(Rev. 20:12-13) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Who are you allowing to teach you that you need not work to serve the Lord of this bible? (v.13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and dead and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Don’t allow anyone to deceive you! You will be judged according to your works.

(Rev. 22:11-14) (v.11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still: In other words be whatever you choose to be. (v.12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. How many times must we read, that you will be judged according to your works? (v.13) I am Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end, the first and the last. (v.14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

You see by your faith and effort God will work for you. But you must show God your faith by your fruits, by your efforts, by your works! So if you expect to enter into God’s kingdom, you better get to work.

Paul says in Titus 3:8   This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. This is a life time journey brothers and sisters, you must maintain good works to the end. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Timothy 3:17).

 

 

 

 

[Hopefully]

“That is why we always pray for you. We ask our God to help you live the good way he wanted when he chose you. The goodness you have makes you want to do good. And the faith you have makes you work. We pray that with his power God will help you do these things more and more. Then the name of our Lord Jesus will be honored because of you, and you will be honored because of him. This can happen only by the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:11-12‬ ‭
 

“Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:11-12‬ ‭

[PeterR]

Joh 6:28  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 
Joh 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

LOVE.

[Hopefully]

“But earthly food spoils and ruins. So don’t work to get that kind of food. But work to get the food that stays good and gives you eternal life. The Son of Man will give you that food. He is the only one qualified by God the Father to give it to you.” The people asked Jesus, “What does God want us to do?” Jesus answered, “The work God wants you to do is this: to believe in the one he sent.””
‭‭John‬ ‭6:27-29‬ ‭
 

I believe when we believe in Jesus we are doers of the word and not hearers only. Our works do not save us but our faith causes us to be what the law wants.

“I mean we are made right with God through faith, not through what we have done to follow the law. This is what we believe.

So do we destroy the law by following the way of faith? Not at all! In fact, faith causes us to be what the law actually wants.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:28, 31‬ ‭

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Hopefully

[Bro.Tan]

On 3/13/2021 at 9:57 AM, Hopefully said:

“But earthly food spoils and ruins. So don’t work to get that kind of food. But work to get the food that stays good and gives you eternal life. The Son of Man will give you that food. He is the only one qualified by God the Father to give it to you.” The people asked Jesus, “What does God want us to do?” Jesus answered, “The work God wants you to do is this: to believe in the one he sent.””
‭‭John‬ ‭6:27-29‬ ‭
 

I believe when we believe in Jesus we are doers of the word and not hearers only. Our works do not save us but our faith causes us to be what the law wants.

“I mean we are made right with God through faith, not through what we have done to follow the law. This is what we believe.

So do we destroy the law by following the way of faith? Not at all! In fact, faith causes us to be what the law actually wants.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:28, 31‬ ‭

 

Jesus says in (Matt. 7:21-23) (v.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. You mean you must do more than call on the name of the Lord to enter into the kingdom of heaven? (Which will be set up on this earth)? (v.22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Now this is not the harlot, the thief, or the murder, these are religious people; some had the power to cast out devils. And what did they put before the Lord? Their works! It’s obvious that their iniquity overrode their wonderful works. But they put their works on the table before the Lord, that’s what you are going to be judged by, your works!

Paul said in (Gal. 6:3-5, 7) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

People we must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in  (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works. Sometimes as a Christian you don’t have to say a word, people will see your works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Bro.Tan
add color