Faith without Works is Dead

[Diaste]

On 3/11/2021 at 1:05 PM, Bro.Tan said:

You see by your faith and effort God will work for you. But you must show God your faith by your fruits, by your efforts, by your works! So if you expect to enter into God’s kingdom, you better get to work.

This has probably been answered but what if someone accepts Jesus as Lord on their deathbed and dies in the next moment and they do no faith based works? 

I guess you called acknowledging Jesus as Lord and the belief in His resurrection a 'work', or am I mistaken?

There many other scenarios that could play out just like this.

[Bro.Tan]

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

This has probably been answered but what if someone accepts Jesus as Lord on their deathbed and dies in the next moment and they do no faith based works? 

I guess you called acknowledging Jesus as Lord and the belief in His resurrection a 'work', or am I mistaken?

There many other scenarios that could play out just like this.

The Lord knows the Heart of us all, but still in that case as it is written in Revelation 20: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

That's a good thing to accept Jesus as they Lord, hopefully it  will be added to the good.

 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

11 hours ago, Wesley L said:

Hi @Bro.Tan, i believe you are a Seventh Day Adventist?
I will reply you later.

No, I'm not. 

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Bro.Tan said:

The Lord knows the Heart of us all, but still in that case as it is written in Revelation 20: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

That's a good thing to accept Jesus as they Lord, hopefully it  will be added to the good.

 

 

 

Yes. How does this answer the question?

[Bro.Tan]

19 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes. How does this answer the question?

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? 

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling us all alone that we must have fruits to prove your faith.

A person on they death bed decide to believe in Jesus. I think thats good, but from the time that person was born to the time of their death only God know all the good and bad. That person have to be Judge on the accounts of their faith and works in life. 

Paul said in (2Tim. 4:1) I CHARGE thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom. And by what means will he use to judge you? You will be judged according to your works, pertaining to the commandments. 

[Diaste]

7 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? 

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling us all alone that we must have fruits to prove your faith.

A person on they death bed decide to believe in Jesus. I think thats good, but from the time that person was born to the time of their death only God know all the good and bad. That person have to be Judge on the accounts of their faith and works in life. 

Paul said in (2Tim. 4:1) I CHARGE thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom. And by what means will he use to judge you? You will be judged according to your works, pertaining to the commandments. 

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in heart God raised Him from the dead the same shall be saved; for with the heart man believes toward righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

PERIOD!

[Bro.Tan]

On 4/1/2021 at 10:37 AM, Diaste said:

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in heart God raised Him from the dead the same shall be saved; for with the heart man believes toward righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

PERIOD!

I wish it was that simple, but it's not. That's just the beginning. Many people have said that and went right back to there old sinful ways. That's a person saying they have faith, but no works to go with it. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it.

If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD"(James 2:20).

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14).

The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

 

 

 

[Diaste]

On 4/2/2021 at 10:27 AM, Bro.Tan said:

I wish it was that simple, but it's not. That's just the beginning. Many people have said that and went right back to there old sinful ways. That's a person saying they have faith, but no works to go with it. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it.

I agree. But what does that mean? We fail at keeping the Law. In fact we cannot as the truth of the Law is not to serve as a barometer of righteousness but to show sin to be sin. As Jesus taught; to hate your brother is murder. As Paul taught; guilty of one is guilty of all. So that's out as under the Law we are all guilty and the Law does not save anyone.

 

On 4/2/2021 at 10:27 AM, Bro.Tan said:

If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD"(James 2:20).

I think this is a poor analogy as the child would be doing the work for the reward, not necessarily in the unfeigned love one should show toward the parent. In this case the reward is dangled before the child as bribe to comply. The child is not obedient out of love honor and respect but works based on reward.

Scripture concludes all under sin from birth. We are not compelled to Christ and His salvation by the hope of reward but through the cleansing of the sin within us, salvation from death due to the sin that passed from Adam to all mankind. Jesus' work is the lifeboat of a doomed ship and not a carrot to force compliance. 

You see we aren't on the way to the pit of hell because we don't confess Jesus as Lord, we are on the way to the pit because of the congenital defect of tainted blood passed to us. If we don't confess Jesus as Lord we are not rescued from the ultimate destiny of the path of sin. Sin isn't behavior; behavior that is not aligned with the standard of Christ is the manifestation of the sin in us. 

So then when we come to the saving knowledge that we are born into sin, and the Lord Jesus has gifted us with the path to the Father and life eternal, we are changed internally and the works that please our Father are born of the Spirit as the manifestation of His love and goodness. We don't work to achieve, we work as a natural outpouring of the love of God we have received in the Spirit.

On 4/2/2021 at 10:27 AM, Bro.Tan said:

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14).

The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

Have you read Matt 25:31-46?

The sheep were unaware of what they were doing and goats were unaware of what they were not doing. Very interesting.

How about Matt 23?

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin. But you have disregarded the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, so that the outside may become clean as well.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside, but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of impurity. In the same way, on the outside you appear to be righteous, but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Matthew 7?

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Terrifying!

But that still doesn't answer the question though it's moot at this point. So then we have to know, "What are the commandments we are to keep?"  It's easy.

Matt 22

“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”"

Luke 10

One day an expert in the law stood up to test Him. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus said. “Do this and you will live.”

 

James 2

What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?  Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute justified by her actions when she welcomed the spies and sent them off on another route? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

So the works of faith are the manifestation in the physical realm of the Spirit in us through the salvation of Christ and not the route to salvation or the gift of eternal life. I'm not saying the deeds are unimportant but they must be born of faith. One does not have faith by the deeds, but rather the deeds must be born of the faith delivered to us and in the love for God and neighbor.

But even if this is so what deeds are approved? What is the correct work that perfects our faith? And who decides that? I can tell you for sure it isn't faceless entities in cyberspace that bears that weight. I would imagine it's tailored to the individual. Abraham offers Isaac. Rahab saves the spies. The Samaritan helps a traveler. 

Or more likely it's a moment when we are presented with a choice. Do we send the hungry, cold traveler away with a prayer, or do we feed him and give him a cloak? Do you give that homeless person some cash so they can eat?  This opportunity presents itself in many ways for many people. 

 

 

[Guest clancy]

On 4/1/2021 at 4:37 PM, Diaste said:

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in heart God raised Him from the dead the same shall be saved; for with the heart man believes toward righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

PERIOD!

What do you mean....PERIOD?

 

Are you saying God saves us that way?

I can assure you I wasn’t saved like that.

When  I was saved  ,God drew me to Jesus...my Heart had already been opened by God to receive the Holy Spirit, who testified to my spirit that I am his child.

The Holy Spirit indwells me, Therefore “ EMPOWERING” me for His good works.

 I can  do all this through him who gives me strength.

You can’t empower yourself...

Edited April 4, 2021 by clancy

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, clancy said:

What do you mean....PERIOD?

 

Are you saying God saves us that way?

I can assure you I wasn’t saved like that.

When  I was saved  ,God drew me to Jesus...my Heart had already been opened by God to receive the Holy Spirit, who testified to my spirit that I am his child.

The Holy Spirit indwells me, Therefore “ EMPOWERING” me for His good works.

 I can  do all this through him who gives me strength.

You can’t empower yourself...

It's in contrast to a works based doctrine. Confession and belief is what the scripture tells is is the way to salvation. The Spirit then comes to us and guides the inner man in the ways of our Father conforming us to the likeness of Jesus. After this good works are born of the faith God gives us by the Spirit.

I see no where in scripture where our will in this one very important thing is absent.