Faith without Works is Dead

[Guest clancy]

43 minutes ago, Diaste said:

It's in contrast to a works based doctrine. Confession and belief is what the scripture tells is is the way to salvation. The Spirit then comes to us and guides the inner man in the ways of our Father conforming us to the likeness of Jesus. After this good works are born of the faith God gives us by the Spirit.

I see no where in scripture where our will in this one very important thing is absent. 

 

That is not the only way to salvation, plenty of scripture on it...

The wind blows  where ever it pleases,you don’t know where it comes from.same as those born of the Spirit.

PHILIPPIANS 2:13

for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Is it Our will that saves us?

 

Not my will but your will be done.

Edited April 4, 2021 by clancy

[Diaste]

49 minutes ago, clancy said:

That is not the only way to salvation, plenty of scripture on it...

The wind blows  where ever it pleases,you don’t know where it comes from.same as those born of the Spirit.

PHILIPPIANS 2:13

for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Is it Our will that saves us?

 

Not my will but your will be done.

 

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.” - John 3

Here belief in mentioned 5 times as an act of the will as the choice is there. In 19-21 we see again choice 4 times on the part of the person. It our choice to believe or not, practice or not, do evil or not. 

Obviously the good deeds are wrought in God but that empowerment does not negate the act of will manifest in choice to believe per 16-18.

Scripture doesn't say, "Whosoever I made to believe in the only begotten Son..."

And it's clear the ones who do evil choose to do so, God didn't make them do evil. That choice would also exist in the good that is done; the difference is that we do good as empowered by the Spirit; like a prompt, then a fulfillment, even the scope and distance led by the Spirit, for the glory of our Father. 

I can tell you from personal experience the choice is mine and very real. If you can't choose you're programmed, a robot, and the acts we do are then all blamed on God. If there is no choice both the good and the bad are all God's fault which cannot be the case.

[Guest clancy]

26 minutes ago, Diaste said:

 

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.” - John 3

Here belief in mentioned 5 times as an act of the will as the choice is there. In 19-21 we see again choice 4 times on the part of the person. It our choice to believe or not, practice or not, do evil or not. 

Obviously the good deeds are wrought in God but that empowerment does not negate the act of will manifest in choice to believe per 16-18.

Scripture doesn't say, "Whosoever I made to believe in the only begotten Son..."

And it's clear the ones who do evil choose to do so, God didn't make them do evil. That choice would also exist in the good that is done; the difference is that we do good as empowered by the Spirit; like a prompt, then a fulfillment, even the scope and distance led by the Spirit, for the glory of our Father. 

I can tell you from personal experience the choice is mine and very real. If you can't choose you're programmed, a robot, and the acts we do are then all blamed on God. If there is no choice both the good and the bad are all God's fault which cannot be the case.

That was your own personal experience.

As was my saving my own personal experience.

mine was different,God drew me to Jesus,I was chosen,..I was called and automatically received the Holy Spirit the door to my heart was opened, having never even read a bible....so as I posted scripture...God saves as he chooses to save.

He does not save just one way....He testified to my spirit that I’m his child..

 

I am also not a programmed robot, I was called according to His purpose and plan.

which I rejoice in that knowledge!

Romans  8:28

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him and have been called according to His purpose.

 

Acts we do all blamed on God?

What are you talking about brother?

I was called...according to His purpose and plan for my life.

 

I would never tell anyone how they should be saved like you have.

But I certainly won’t deny how I was saved.thats for sure.

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by clancy

[Bro.Tan]

On 4/4/2021 at 5:40 AM, Diaste said:

I agree. But what does that mean? We fail at keeping the Law. In fact we cannot as the truth of the Law is not to serve as a barometer of righteousness but to show sin to be sin. As Jesus taught; to hate your brother is murder. As Paul taught; guilty of one is guilty of all. So that's out as under the Law we are all guilty and the Law does not save anyone.

 

I think this is a poor analogy as the child would be doing the work for the reward, not necessarily in the unfeigned love one should show toward the parent. In this case the reward is dangled before the child as bribe to comply. The child is not obedient out of love honor and respect but works based on reward.

Scripture concludes all under sin from birth. We are not compelled to Christ and His salvation by the hope of reward but through the cleansing of the sin within us, salvation from death due to the sin that passed from Adam to all mankind. Jesus' work is the lifeboat of a doomed ship and not a carrot to force compliance. 

You see we aren't on the way to the pit of hell because we don't confess Jesus as Lord, we are on the way to the pit because of the congenital defect of tainted blood passed to us. If we don't confess Jesus as Lord we are not rescued from the ultimate destiny of the path of sin. Sin isn't behavior; behavior that is not aligned with the standard of Christ is the manifestation of the sin in us. 

So then when we come to the saving knowledge that we are born into sin, and the Lord Jesus has gifted us with the path to the Father and life eternal, we are changed internally and the works that please our Father are born of the Spirit as the manifestation of His love and goodness. We don't work to achieve, we work as a natural outpouring of the love of God we have received in the Spirit.

Have you read Matt 25:31-46?

The sheep were unaware of what they were doing and goats were unaware of what they were not doing. Very interesting.

How about Matt 23?

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin. But you have disregarded the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, so that the outside may become clean as well.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside, but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of impurity. In the same way, on the outside you appear to be righteous, but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Matthew 7?

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’

Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Terrifying!

But that still doesn't answer the question though it's moot at this point. So then we have to know, "What are the commandments we are to keep?"  It's easy.

Matt 22

“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”"

Luke 10

One day an expert in the law stood up to test Him. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus said. “Do this and you will live.”

 

James 2

What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?  Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute justified by her actions when she welcomed the spies and sent them off on another route? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

So the works of faith are the manifestation in the physical realm of the Spirit in us through the salvation of Christ and not the route to salvation or the gift of eternal life. I'm not saying the deeds are unimportant but they must be born of faith. One does not have faith by the deeds, but rather the deeds must be born of the faith delivered to us and in the love for God and neighbor.

But even if this is so what deeds are approved? What is the correct work that perfects our faith? And who decides that? I can tell you for sure it isn't faceless entities in cyberspace that bears that weight. I would imagine it's tailored to the individual. Abraham offers Isaac. Rahab saves the spies. The Samaritan helps a traveler. 

Or more likely it's a moment when we are presented with a choice. Do we send the hungry, cold traveler away with a prayer, or do we feed him and give him a cloak? Do you give that homeless person some cash so they can eat?  This opportunity presents itself in many ways for many people. 

 

 

God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing.  (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood. 

Now because you haven't been taught, you just posting all the verses that talks about do away with a law. not knowing what Paul is talking about. 

There's two different laws Paul talks about in this chapter.

Here's an example. Let's take a look at Roman 8: 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. This is true, because Jesus says in John 4: 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Now, what law is this Paul talking about. This law is animal sacrificial law, not the royal law (Ten Commandments, statutes and Judgement). Paul explained this law in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. 

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

Now, Let's get back to Romans 8: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So what is the righteousness of the law? Let allow Paul to tell us in Paul said in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 

The Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, it is consider walking in the spirit because its part of the law (commandments), to be carnally minded is walk contrary to the law of righteousness. 

 

This is how you put the scriptures in order. Understand the different between the laws when you reading Paul's writing. 

 

 

 

[Diaste]

On 4/4/2021 at 8:00 AM, clancy said:

That was your own personal experience.

As was my saving my own personal experience.

mine was different,God drew me to Jesus,I was chosen,..I was called and automatically received the Holy Spirit the door to my heart was opened, having never even read a bible....so as I posted scripture...God saves as he chooses to save.

He does not save just one way....He testified to my spirit that I’m his child..

 

I am also not a programmed robot, I was called according to His purpose and plan.

which I rejoice in that knowledge!

Romans  8:28

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him and have been called according to His purpose.

 

Acts we do all blamed on God?

What are you talking about brother?

I was called...according to His purpose and plan for my life.

 

I would never tell anyone how they should be saved like you have.

But I certainly won’t deny how I was saved. thats for sure.

 

I think I have to apologize for not being very clear with my thoughts. It looks like I may have created a misunderstanding and that was not my intent. 

In no way did I mean to disparage anyone's personal experience with our Lord. The Lord approaches us as we need and how we will hear. 

If you felt I was doing that I humbly apologize.

[Guest clancy]

12 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I think I have to apologize for not being very clear with my thoughts. It looks like I may have created a misunderstanding and that was not my intent. 

In no way did I mean to disparage anyone's personal experience with our Lord. The Lord approaches us as we need and how we will hear. 

If you felt I was doing that I humbly apologize.

No worries brother, you didn’t offend, I can take things personally at times, I can also be over sensitive....you are the last person to offend, from reading your posts...God Bless.

Edited April 6, 2021 by clancy

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing.  (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood. 

Now because you haven't been taught, you just posting all the verses that talks about do away with a law. not knowing what Paul is talking about. 

There's two different laws Paul talks about in this chapter.

Here's an example. Let's take a look at Roman 8: 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. This is true, because Jesus says in John 4: 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Now, what law is this Paul talking about. This law is animal sacrificial law, not the royal law (Ten Commandments, statutes and Judgement). Paul explained this law in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. 

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

Now, Let's get back to Romans 8: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So what is the righteousness of the law? Let allow Paul to tell us in Paul said in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 

The Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, it is consider walking in the spirit because its part of the law (commandments), to be carnally minded is walk contrary to the law of righteousness. 

 

This is how you put the scriptures in order. Understand the different between the laws when you reading Paul's writing. 

Christ did not interpret the Law as such. Jesus confirmed the Law states, "Love God and love your neighbor." 

Paul is speaking to the mode of salvation, the ultimate propitiation, the weakness of the Law to save, what the Law actually means and it's purpose, etc. 

There is none who can keep the commandments of the Law by nature and/or practicality. Didn't you hear Jesus said in Matt 5? 

What did Paul say is the purpose of the Law? 

"Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Certainly not! But in order that sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful." Romans 7

"For sin was in the world before the law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. " Romans 5

I don't think you are considering the above when interpreting Romans 8

[Bro.Tan]

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Christ did not interpret the Law as such. Jesus confirmed the Law states, "Love God and love your neighbor." 

That's true, but it's more to it. In the days of Jesus, the religious leaders were constantly questioning Jesus in order to test Him and on this occasion a lawyer asked Jesus what is the great commandment?

Matthew (22:35) Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

(36) Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus reply was the 1st great commandment was to love God and the 2nd was to love ones neighbor. These were given as a commandment for man to love.

Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

(38) This is the first and great commandment.

(39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

One should note that by following the 1st and 2nd great commandment they will be adhering to the 10 commandments issued by Moses. If they love the Lord they won’t have any other Gods before him, or make any graven images or take his name in vain, they will remember his Sabbath and if they love their neighbor they will honor their Father and Mother and they won’t kill or commit adultery or steal or bear false witness nor will they covet. This is why Jesus goes on to state that on these two commandments hang the law and the prophets. Because by fulfilling these two commandments one fulfills the law.

(40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus stated that these 2 commandments where the 2 great commandments however the following verses will show that these commandments were not new and that the Jews and Jesus was speaking to were aware of them. These were the same ones issued to Israel by Moses.

Deuteronomy (6:5) And thy shall love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus (19:18) Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Now that it has been established that man was commanded to love one needs to examine the scriptures to get an understanding of the love required in these great commandments. In the following verses Moses is telling the Israelites that God chose them strictly out of His love for them.

Deuteronomy (7:7) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

(8) But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

(9) Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Note in verse (9) Moses states a condition that God requires in order for Him to keep covenant and have mercy. And that is an individual must love God and keep His commandments. The scriptures will show that there is only one way to love God and that is by keeping His commandments.

Note that Jesus states in the following verse that in order to love Him one has to keep His commandments.

John (14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jesus further defines the love He requires when He states in the following verse that those who have His commandments and keep them are those that love Him. One does not have to guess at Jesus definition of love He made it clear.

John (14:21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jesus also reinforced what was said in Deuteronomy verse (9) by adding that those that love Him will be loved by the Father. How does one love Jesus? by keeping His commandments and Moses said God will keep covenant and have mercy with those who keep His commandments. So therefore by following Jesus one shall receive love from Him as well as mercy from the Father. 

Note in these scriptures it did not say those who profess their love for Jesus or those that claim that Jesus knows what in their heart. Jesus made a clear and direct statement if one has His commandments and keeps them they are the ones who love Him. The statement that Jesus made as well as the condition Moses gave in Deuteronomy verse (9) were based on behalf of an individuals actions not their feeling or emotions or conditions. To exhibit love towards Jesus one must engage in a specific action and that action is being obedience to the word of God. And one will see that they are to be obedient regardless of their feeling or the surrounding circumstances.

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

Paul is speaking to the mode of salvation, the ultimate propitiation, the weakness of the Law to save, what the Law actually means and it's purpose, etc. 

The weakness of the law Paul is talking about here is the animal sacrificial law. Paul explained this in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments. (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. 

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation). 

 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

There is none who can keep the commandments of the Law by nature and/or practicality. Didn't you hear Jesus said in Matt 5? 

Must be something you didn't understand in Matthew 5, because says in Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 

So Jesus said, “but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments,” No matter what you read in the Bible, these commandments have to be kept to enter into life, or you will be judge by them. Now let’s read further into what Jesus is saying here in Matthew… Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 

This includes the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (Saturday).

This also include,Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (which includes Easter, Christmas, going to church on Sunday and any other pagan or tradition of men that may cause another God to be worship)   

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Exodus 20:3-8) 

 

 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

What did Paul say is the purpose of the Law? 

"Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Certainly not! But in order that sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful." Romans 7

"For sin was in the world before the law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. " Romans 5

I don't think you are considering the above when interpreting Romans 8

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul also says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin. 

From your response here, you didn't read what I wrote, or you did not understand it. That's what's important is to understand it. Like I said before you are getting confuse on which law is which. Paul talks about two different laws, you have to know which one is which.