The Other Sheep

[David1701]

1 minute ago, WailingWall said:

And what is sin according to the new covenant scriptures?

1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

That's a poor translation of this verse.

1 John 3:4 (WEB) Everyone who sins also commits lawlessness. Sin is lawlessness.

Sin is doing your own thing, instead of what God wants.  God wants us to be self-controlled, but if we stuff our faces with food, or get drunk - that is sin.  The Lord Jesus Christ wants us to love others as he has loved us (this is a higher standard than the ten commandments!); but, if we are selfish or indifferent, then that is sin.

I hope you get the idea - sin is not just breaking the law; in fact, we are not under law, but under grace.

[WailingWall]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

 Thankfully, we are not under law, but under grace, in the New Covenant. 

JOHN 1 [15] John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. [16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. [17] FOR THE LAW WAS GIVEN BY MOSES, BUT GRACE AND TRUTH CAME BY JESUS CHRIST.

What law was givin by Moses? 

LEVITICUS 16  [15] Then shall he KILL THE GOAT OF THE SIN OFFERING, that is for the people, and BRING HIS BLOOD WITHIN THE VAIL, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:

Under the law of Moses the sin offering was the blood of animals {meat and drink offerings which were the shadow of Christ}. They were brought within the vail. When Christ died on the cross the vail was rent {Luke 23v45}

LUKE 23 [44] And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. [45] And the sun was darkened, and THE VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT in the midst. [46] And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The law fulfilled. No more shadows. Keep in mind the shadow of Christ were the meat and drink offerings that were performed on the new moons, feast days and the sabbath days

EPHESIANS 1  [6] To the praise of the glory of HIS GRACE, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. [7] In whom we have redemption through HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of HIS GRACE;

By grace our sins are now forgiven through His blood and not the blood of animals as it was in the law of Moses. Which we are no longer under

HEBREWS 13  [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that THE HEART BE ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. [13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

Hebrews 13 says it all. We are no longer under that portion of the law of Moses. It has been fulfilled by Christ. No more meat and drink offerings for the forgivness of sins.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.
 
There are “many” who will claim ya cant mix grace and the law
       
JOHN 1 [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE and truth.

This scripture says Jesus was full of grace. Did He keep the law? The sabbath
 

[David1701]

1 minute ago, WailingWall said:

JOHN 1 [15] John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. [16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. [17] FOR THE LAW WAS GIVEN BY MOSES, BUT GRACE AND TRUTH CAME BY JESUS CHRIST.

What law was givin by Moses? 

LEVITICUS 16  [15] Then shall he KILL THE GOAT OF THE SIN OFFERING, that is for the people, and BRING HIS BLOOD WITHIN THE VAIL, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:

Under the law of Moses the sin offering was the blood of animals {meat and drink offerings which were the shadow of Christ}. They were brought within the vail. When Christ died on the cross the vail was rent {Luke 23v45}

LUKE 23 [44] And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. [45] And the sun was darkened, and THE VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT in the midst. [46] And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The law fulfilled. No more shadows. Keep in mind the shadow of Christ were the meat and drink offerings that were performed on the new moons, feast days and the sabbath days

EPHESIANS 1  [6] To the praise of the glory of HIS GRACE, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. [7] In whom we have redemption through HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of HIS GRACE;

By grace our sins are now forgiven through His blood and not the blood of animals as it was in the law of Moses. Which we are no longer under

HEBREWS 13  [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that THE HEART BE ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. [13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

Hebrews 13 says it all. We are no longer under that portion of the law of Moses. It has been fulfilled by Christ. No more meat and drink offerings for the forgivness of sins.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.
 
There are “many” who will claim ya cant mix grace and the law
       
JOHN 1 [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE and truth.

This scripture says Jesus was full of grace. Did He keep the law? The sabbath
 

You cannot split the law of Moses into portions.  If you are under it, then you are under ALL of it - all 613 commandments - and you are not under grace.

James 2:10 (WEB) For whoever keeps the whole law, and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

 

[WailingWall]

2 minutes ago, David1701 said:

  The Lord Jesus Christ wants us to love others as he has loved us (this is a higher standard than the ten commandments!);

Your tryin to tell me we need not keep Gods 10 commandments because we are givin a new testament commandment “to love one another”. Problem is the new testament scriptures tell us how to “love one another”.

1JOHN 5 [2] By this WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

To love the children of God, we are to keep the commandments

2JOHN1  [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] And THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Love one another. Keep the commandments

JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

ROMANS 13 [8] Owe no man any thing, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.[9] For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I decided to show the scripture of James 2 and Romans 13 which explain to us how we are to show our love for one another because im sure the next thing i hear is that it is not the 10 commandments being mentioned. But as you can see in these scriptures, adultry  killing, stealing, bearing false witness, covetness are mentioned. And i suppose i will hear you say that since the “keeping of the sabbath” is not mentioned or “thou shalt have no other gods before me" is not mentioned these commandments can be ignored.  

JOHN 15 [8] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.[9] As the Father hath loved me, SO HAVE I LOVED YOU: continue ye in my love.[10] IF YE KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, ye shall abide in my love; even as I HAVE KEPT MY FATHER'S COMMANDMENTS, AND ABIDE IN HIS LOVE.
 

[WailingWall]

2 minutes ago, David1701 said:

You cannot split the law of Moses into portions.  If you are under it, then you are under ALL of it - all 613 commandments - and you are not under grace.

I dont split the law of Moses into portions

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, AND a law, AND commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. 

The bible does. We can see that the law AND the ten commandments are separate. They are not lumped into 600 plus commandments called the law as the "many" claim. The reason they make this claim is to point to one liners which are usually talking about the law of circumcision and apply that one liner to the ten commandments. This is done to extreme with the book of Galatians
 

[WailingWall]

7 minutes ago, David1701 said:

 

James 2:10 (WEB) For whoever keeps the whole law, and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

 

Think about that scripture. Are you breaking the 4th

[David1701]

11 minutes ago, WailingWall said:

Your tryin to tell me we need not keep Gods 10 commandments because we are givin a new testament commandment “to love one another”. Problem is the new testament scriptures tell us how to “love one another”.

1JOHN 5 [2] By this WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

To love the children of God, we are to keep the commandments

2JOHN1  [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] And THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Love one another. Keep the commandments

JAMES 2 [8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF, ye do well: [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

ROMANS 13 [8] Owe no man any thing, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.[9] For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I decided to show the scripture of James 2 and Romans 13 which explain to us how we are to show our love for one another because im sure the next thing i hear is that it is not the 10 commandments being mentioned. But as you can see in these scriptures, adultry  killing, stealing, bearing false witness, covetness are mentioned. And i suppose i will hear you say that since the “keeping of the sabbath” is not mentioned or “thou shalt have no other gods before me" is not mentioned these commandments can be ignored.  

JOHN 15 [8] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.[9] As the Father hath loved me, SO HAVE I LOVED YOU: continue ye in my love.[10] IF YE KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, ye shall abide in my love; even as I HAVE KEPT MY FATHER'S COMMANDMENTS, AND ABIDE IN HIS LOVE.
 

The commandments that we are to keep, are the New Covenant commandments.  Some are repetitions of Old Covenant commandments, but not one is on the same basis as the law.

The Law is: Do this and I will bless you; Do that and I will curse you.  We cannot keep the Law; in fact, it was given partly to show us that we can't.

The New Covenant is: Do this because of what I have done for you and because you are new creations in Christ.  I will work in you to will and to do of my good pleasure.

Edited April 17, 2021 by David1701
typo

[David1701]

7 minutes ago, WailingWall said:

I dont split the law of Moses into portions

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, AND a law, AND commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. 

The bible does. We can see that the law AND the ten commandments are separate. They are not lumped into 600 plus commandments called the law as the "many" claim. The reason they make this claim is to point to one liners which are usually talking about the law of circumcision and apply that one liner to the ten commandments. This is done to extreme with the book of Galatians
 

The tables of stone had the Law and commandments on them.  The Law was later expanded vastly, but, at the time God wrote it on tablets of stone, it was only ten commandments.

Edited April 17, 2021 by David1701
typo

[David1701]

3 minutes ago, WailingWall said:

Think about that scripture. Are you breaking the 4th

I can't, because I'm not under law.

[Alive]

1Tim. 1:3 (NAS20S)   Just as I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, to remain on at Ephesus so that you would instruct certain people not to teach strange doctrines, ⁴ nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to useless speculation rather than advance the plan of God, which is by faith, so I urge you now. ⁵ But the goal of our   instruction is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from a sincere faith. ⁶ Some people have strayed from these things and have turned aside to fruitless discussion, ⁷ wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

1Tim. 1:8 (NAS20S)   But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, ⁹ realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and worldly, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, ¹⁰ for the   sexually immoral, homosexuals,   slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, ¹¹ according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.