Bush ties Iraq to fight on terror

[nebula]

NITE OWL -

I wonder if you have considered this?

Luke 3:14 - Likewise the soldiers asked him [John the Baptist], saying, "And what shall we do?" So he said to them, "Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages."

How come he didn't say anything about putting down their swords or not going into battle anymore?

[apothanein kerdos]

Diminished attacks on Israel. You're kidding, right?

They've been reduced 60-90% in the past two years alone.

There is no justification for the torture of a child. Repaying evil for evil only leaves evil. Does your bloodthirsty mind understand that?

Again, Joshua. Was God bloodthirsy when He commanded the death of children?

If God wanted us to be warriors, His message would be one of war. There is no room for love and compassion on the battlefield. It's kill or be killed.

At least you got that part down. Regardless, you are ignorant of war. There are times of mercy and compassion...those times are simply spent from one man saving his brother from the clutches of death.

To say "doing nothing ensures the victory of evil" is denying the power of God.

Ah, lazy faith. Gotta love it.

As for my reading habits, I spend most of my time on the teaching's of Christ. I do not search God's word for reasons to hate. He said "love your neighbor", "not hit'em and run".

He is also ordered the death of thousands of men, women, and children. Do you deny this?

You should be careful about what you say on these boards. Your words are your witness.

You mean I should be careful that I am calling for a painful death of terrorist?

[NITE OWL]

nebula

I didn't know I said the military was a bad thing. I've spent many years in the military. Seen and done many things I'm not very proud of.

super jew

It's easy to pass judgement when someone else has to carry that judgement out.

You speak of mutilating bodies and bringing them to their families. I can't believe you would want someone to do that to you.

You keep bringing up God ordering women and children to be put to death. Is that what God means to you? A reason to commit violence? If we were to go with your reasoning, we should just pull all our people out of there and nuke'em all.

From your comment about "lazy faith" I can assume that you're in the military. Or you are somehow aiding in the death of terrorists.

Your lighthearted remark of your witness exposes your knowledge of the Lord. But I forgot, jews don't believe in Christ.

You have a nice day.

[ted]

Well I'm not saying that everyone there is like that. What I am advocating...and I'm sure you can back this up...is that we are fighting a bunch of people with seriel killer minds? How else do you counter that without violence? I'm not even saying that all the people are terrorist, I am speaking of what we need to do solely with the terrorist.

Sounds fair, and I know we are very close to saying the same thing. My only point was that some of these people that we think are terrorists, are really just people caught up in something they feel they have to do based on threats on themselves or their families. Some of them jump ship quickly as soon as they are captured, and give some vital info at times.

But, let's stick to what we would call the hard-core, no backing down terrorist. There's not much we can do with them, and most times it ends with their death or ours. We simply have to remain smarter and quicker than them, if possible. Sometimes, it just boils down to simple life or death. I'm willing to lay down mine for our cause, but not for theirs. Therefore, there are times when we can show no mercy. The trouble comes when we apply that same criteria to the general population out of fear for our lives.

Many outdated techniques are no longer needed, nor justified. Carpet bombing, like we had against Germany, would be an example. Back then, it was used to wipe out entire cities to break the will of the enemy, weaken their infrastructure, and to eliminate their war industry. Today's warfare in the Middle-East is so much different, and we have many more modern weapons to do the job more efficiently.

So now, we can minimize civilian casualties, and concentrate solely on the ones that want to kill us. Of course, even today, mistakes are made. Sadly, these mistakes seem to be the only stories that we see from the war over there, but we are trying.

Still, we face many difficulties employing some of these weapons. Take the "sniper" theory. Many people claim that we can simply dispatch a sniper to hit key targets, and that everything will be hunky-dory after a few days. The trouble is, once a war is started, most of the targets go into hiding, and it's impossible to nail them. So, we are forced to use other means.

Sorry guys, contrary to what is pumped out of Hollywood, a few Rambo's and a couple of Chuck Norris's ain't gonna cut it.

On a side note, why are the ones over there that advocate suicide bombing never the ones to strap on the belts themselves? Maybe we should encourage the terrorist leaders to do the job themselves and just wait for them to blow themselves up?

Right, it ain't going to happen because they don't believe even a piece of what they say themselves. It's all a sham on their part, but we get to pay the price, along with the ones that they convince to do their dirty work.

Anyway, back to the subject.....

I hope you don't think I was advocating we need to do this to everyone there. What I was advocating is we do it to enemy combatants, guys who have been caught firing on our soldiers. The ones who, no matter what, will not cease fire. We need to take the ring leaders and torture them, and let their followers know that they are being tortured. You know, as well as I know, this makes the cost too high to be a martyr.

I actually used to think pretty much along the same lines, until a few months ago.

Basically, it wouldn't phase them. Once we did that, new idiots would take their place, and the cycle would continue, as it has for years now. There's not too many of the ring leaders left, when you think about it. Bin Laden is still out there, of course, along with Zarqarwui (sp?), but most of the key players from both wars are already in custody or dead. They simply wait until someone else steps up, and carry on.

Personally, I don't think that we will change the situation until we change their minds. This, I believe, has to start from the bottom up. Once the common folk finally get tired of getting blown up by their own "friends", they should finally take steps to change their situation. Hopefully, the swell will come soon. I'm kind of tired of living my life with the thought of deploying hanging over my head.

It gets old quick. If they see us trying to build their schools, mosques, markets, bridges, villages, and water supplies to new levels of modern engineering, only to see these things get blown up, maybe they will finally take matter into their own hands.

Maybe.

But, if the common people see us constantly acting the way their own idiots act, what difference will they be able to pick out? It's bad enough that the nightly news, along with many of our own Government officials, paint us in that very light, but when they see the same violence from us that they see from the terrorists, what are they supposed to draw from that?

Above all else, they should see a difference in us. They should see a love and compassion from us that clearly separates us from the terrorists. They should know that we will fight against them when they attack us, as well. They should have no doubts that we will defend ourselves and actively pursue anyone that plans on attacking us. That much should be clear to them, but they should also know that we will lay down our weapons and extend our hands in friendship, if they so desire peace.

Only when this distinction is believed by them, will we see some progress. I know it's hard, based on what they were taught from an early age, but it is possible.

If wee can see through the fog of human lies and corruption, we could see that even they are God's children, born into the same sinful state that we were. It's hard to keep that at the forefront of our minds when we are engaging them in combat, or picking up pieces of our bodies after a car bombing or rocket attack, but we have to be ready to show them why we are different when we get a chance to. This doesn't mean do anything stupid like stop shooting when we are attacked, or surrender to them in any way, but if we can find the slightest glimmer of hope, we must be ready to show them why there is hope in the first place.

If they refuse our hand and continue with their attacks, well then, they simply leave us with no choice to defend ourselves. So be it.

I just don't think that slaughtering their leaders in the public square would do much to show them that we are different than their leaders in the first place. All they will see is the same type of violence, no matter who is conducting the class.

You know, as well as I know, this makes the cost too high to be a martyr.

To an extent, yes.

But, their culture does not allow for fear (the terrorist culture, I mean). In fact, it would most likely only serve to give them a reason to give all the more glory to the "martyr" in the first place. That's the way they work, and that is what they are taught from an early age. They literally have thousands willing to step up and be the next one.

What I think needs to happen is for us to somehow break the chain of thought that they are martyrs in the first place. Somehow, and in some way, we have to get that notion of idiocy out of their heads. Personally, I'm thinking that the Word of God is the only way to do this, but they have to understand that the Word is not forced on them at gun point. We have to show them that our war against the terrorists is simply a way to combat the threats against us, and not a means of spreading the Gospel. The two have to be seen as separate, but needed, in this case.

War is justified, at times, but they have to be able to separate our war with the hope of Christ. They have to know that we are only at war to rid their area of the terrorists, and not to give us a way to move in and preach Christ.

If they get the impression that we are their to force our "religion" on them, they will continue to fight even harder.

Most of it is their culture under Islam, and in the twisted minds of most of their leaders that use it to justify their goals.

Hopefully, we can change their minds on that one.

But, most of them care little about the cost of being a martyr, at this point, so showing them that they will die isn't working. They kind of like the idea of 70 girls running around, serving their every need. It sounds childish and idiotic in our minds, but a lot of them belive that garbage, and act accordingly.

So, there has to be another way to show them that the idea is stupid. One that they will accept. In my mind, only the love of Jesus could do the work on this issue.

As for you actually being there....mind if I put some salt on my foot before inserting it into my mouth?

You, my friend, have no reason to be ashamed, nor worry about such things. Take the foot out and stand on it.

It helps if you have both of them on the ground to keep your balance.

t.

[dgolvach]

I wonder if the Islamonut terrorists would debate amongst themselves the treatment of our soldiers and Bibles if under their captivity???????????

[ted]

From what we've seen so far, the answer is no.

There's plenty of video clips showing what the terrorists do with their captives.

But we are not them.

t.

Edited August 25, 2005 by ted

[Gerioke]

Matthew 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said to them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that you be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and you shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations; and then shall the end come.

It seems to me that we are to continue preaching the gospel and let the chips fall where they may. Killing is for killers.

[ted]

It seems to me that we are to continue preaching the gospel and let the chips fall where they may. Killing is for killers. 

I agree, to a point.

Preventing one's self from getting killed by killing is not such an evil thing, though, is it?

Anyway, you can head on over to Iraq and start preaching in the streets anytime you want. It's safe now, right?

t.

[Gerioke]

It seems to me that we are to continue preaching the gospel and let the chips fall where they may. Killing is for killers.

[ted]

Well, as long as your little corner of the world is safe, I reckon that's all that matters.

In the mean time, others are not so fortunate. All we are doing is trying to try, that's all.

Hopefully, Nova Scotia will never have to go through what New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania did, but if so, we'll be there to help.

t.