Bush ties Iraq to fight on terror

[Gerioke]

Well, as long as your little corner of the world is safe, I reckon that's all that matters.

In the mean time, others are not so fortunate. All we are doing is trying to try, that's all.

Hopefully, Nova Scotia will never have to go through what New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania did, but if so, we'll be there to help. 

t.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I appreciate that, however Nova Scotia isn't in the habit of trying to tick off the rest of the world by being the great liberator.

[apothanein kerdos]

It's easy to pass judgement when someone else has to carry that judgement out.

You mean my friends who have served their time in Iraq and Afganistan who suggested the exact same thing I did?

They are the ones who converted me to this way of thinking.

You speak of mutilating bodies and bringing them to their families. I can't believe you would want someone to do that to you.

If I and my brother were advocating the unmitigated murder of civilians then it wouldn't matter what I want, now would it? They do public execution in that culture for a reason. It does get the point across.

You keep bringing up God ordering women and children to be put to death. Is that what God means to you? A reason to commit violence? If we were to go with your reasoning, we should just pull all our people out of there and nuke'em all.

You are falsely stating my belief. For one, God is not a reason to hate. I am merely bringing up a fact that you continue to ignore or address in an intellectual way. I am not saying that because ancient Israel did it we have an absolute right to do it as well. The Iraqi people are over all good people. They do not deserve death and destruction, that is why we are over there in the first place. However there are evil people among them that do deserve a harsh death. Children? I already advocated that a child can easily be "re-educated" into a non hateful paradigm. An adult, however, is much more difficult. If they can, then wonderful. Send them to Gitmo and let them cool off for a while. A story is brought to my mind of a terrorist that was acting extremely tough until he saw a picture of his child during questioning. He saw his child, began to bawl, and spilled all of his secrets. What I am talking about, the torture, the mutilation, should be done to the hard core extreme terrorist. The cell leaders, the commanders, the brains and brawns behind the opperation. It makes the cost too high for some to join. Yes, those already involved might get a kick out of it and be willing to step up in leadership, but some 16 year old kid, or some 40 year old father with a young son, won't excatly want to join up if they know the cost that will be paid.

From your comment about "lazy faith" I can assume that you're in the military. Or you are somehow aiding in the death of terrorists.

Hopefully within the near future I will be in the Israeli military (plan to finish out my Master's study in Israel). In this case I will also hold citizenship there which means I will have to be involved in the military there. As for the US, I have tried two times but four torn muscles in my shoulder have prevented entry both times.

But I forgot, jews don't believe in Christ.

Let me guess what your next brilliant comment of the day will be, "and you killed Him too!"

Sounds fair, and I know we are very close to saying the same thing. My only point was that some of these people that we think are terrorists, are really just people caught up in something they feel they have to do based on threats on themselves or their families. Some of them jump ship quickly as soon as they are captured, and give some vital info at times.

Understandable. Then how do we differentiate? I mean, one man gives up and returns home, only to recieve the fire to fight again? Do we send them over to Gitmo and wait? We can't keep that thing up and running forever, and those that won't calm down we can't exactly release back into the general public. So what do we do?

But, let's stick to what we would call the hard-core, no backing down terrorist. There's not much we can do with them, and most times it ends with their death or ours. We simply have to remain smarter and quicker than them, if possible. Sometimes, it just boils down to simple life or death. I'm willing to lay down mine for our cause, but not for theirs. Therefore, there are times when we can show no mercy. The trouble comes when we apply that same criteria to the general population out of fear for our lives.

The United States leadership, for the past fifty years, has had an extremely difficult time remaining "smarter" than guerilla opposition. For one, we underestimate our enemy, who for all intents and purposes is extremely brilliant in military tactics. They know how we will react to every situation, so they can evolve and adapt. That's why it's best to kill them when they have the chance, and if possible, make it as public as possible in front of their friends.

Many outdated techniques are no longer needed, nor justified. Carpet bombing, like we had against Germany, would be an example. Back then, it was used to wipe out entire cities to break the will of the enemy, weaken their infrastructure, and to eliminate their war industry. Today's warfare in the Middle-East is so much different, and we have many more modern weapons to do the job more efficiently.

So now, we can minimize civilian casualties, and concentrate solely on the ones that want to kill us. Of course, even today, mistakes are made. Sadly, these mistakes seem to be the only stories that we see from the war over there, but we are trying.

Agreed with you on that. Unfortunately this leaves us in a war where we're stuck. Public opinion is against us because mistakes occured and civilians died. We have to protect civilians at all cost, meaning you can't shoot anything that moves. You have to identify it. Problem is, by the time it's identified it's too late. Then you have extremist that will kill their own countrymen...it's a situation that the United States has really only faced twice in its history; Japan and Vietnam. In fact, what we need to do that no one has suggested, is go back and look at our strategy with Japanese fanatics. Suicide bombings at the risk of the civilian populace is not new...the Japanese were very effective in this and did it quite often. How did we deal with it back then? What did we do to chase them out? How did we stop it? What were the military tactics used? I dont' know, maybe I'm completely off in my assesment of that, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.

Still, we face many difficulties employing some of these weapons. Take the "sniper" theory. Many people claim that we can simply dispatch a sniper to hit key targets, and that everything will be hunky-dory after a few days. The trouble is, once a war is started, most of the targets go into hiding, and it's impossible to nail them. So, we are forced to use other means.

That and, as proven in Israel, if you cut the head off three times it will still come back a fourth...HOWEVER...it does render them ineffective for quite some time.

Btw, Israel is another case study the US should take into consideration when looking at Iraq.

Sorry guys, contrary to what is pumped out of Hollywood, a few Rambo's and a couple of Chuck Norris's ain't gonna cut it.

lol, never advocated any differently. I have friends over there, friends I have grown up with and friends I wanted to go with. I am just worried for them, and if it means 5,000 extremist have to die in order to get my friends home safely, then by God, give me 5,000 rounds of ammunition and a decent scope and I'll do it myself.

On a side note, why are the ones over there that advocate suicide bombing never the ones to strap on the belts themselves? Maybe we should encourage the terrorist leaders to do the job themselves and just wait for them to blow themselves up?

Right, it ain't going to happen because they don't believe even a piece of what they say themselves. It's all a sham on their part, but we get to pay the price, along with the ones that they convince to do their dirty work.

You're onto something though. Why aren't we dropping pamphlets in Iraq and elsewhere that state how no cleric has offered his life up. Why haven't their leaders died for Allah? Why aren't we dropping this on them? At worst it would be ignored. At best they would pay attention to it and realize the falseness in their ways, or the leaders would be pressured to blow themselves up...leading these terrorist without leaders.

Basically, it wouldn't phase them. Once we did that, new idiots would take their place, and the cycle would continue, as it has for years now. There's not too many of the ring leaders left, when you think about it. Bin Laden is still out there, of course, along with Zarqarwui (sp?), but most of the key players from both wars are already in custody or dead. They simply wait until someone else steps up, and carry on.

Not entirely true. The Israeli treatment of "higher ups" or leaders in Hamas and other terror groups have definately discouraged terrorism in Israel.

Personally, I don't think that we will change the situation until we change their minds. This, I believe, has to start from the bottom up. Once the common folk finally get tired of getting blown up by their own "friends", they should finally take steps to change their situation. Hopefully, the swell will come soon. I'm kind of tired of living my life with the thought of deploying hanging over my head.

At what point to an already opressed people numb to violence and death get tired of it? THat's not a knock against them, I'm merely stating it is what they are use to. How do you tire of the status quo?

It gets old quick. If they see us trying to build their schools, mosques, markets, bridges, villages, and water supplies to new levels of modern engineering, only to see these things get blown up, maybe they will finally take matter into their own hands.

I wish I could agree but look to Palestine. Israel did this and the bombings continued. It's all about power.

Above all else, they should see a difference in us. They should see a love and compassion from us that clearly separates us from the terrorists. They should know that we will fight against them when they attack us, as well. They should have no doubts that we will defend ourselves and actively pursue anyone that plans on attacking us. That much should be clear to them, but they should also know that we will lay down our weapons and extend our hands in friendship, if they so desire peace.

Only when this distinction is believed by them, will we see some progress. I know it's hard, based on what they were taught from an early age, but it is possible.

If wee can see through the fog of human lies and corruption, we could see that even they are God's children, born into the same sinful state that we were. It's hard to keep that at the forefront of our minds when we are engaging them in combat, or picking up pieces of our bodies after a car bombing or rocket attack, but we have to be ready to show them why we are different when we get a chance to. This doesn't mean do anything stupid like stop shooting when we are attacked, or surrender to them in any way, but if we can find the slightest glimmer of hope, we must be ready to show them why there is hope in the first place.

I like your idea better, I just wish I could believe it was practical and would occur. I just don't see some of the hardcore terrorist doing this.

Oh well. All I can hope for is you are right, that they will get sick of it and rise up against the terrorist. I just don't see that happening.

[dgolvach]

I haven't had any muslims come right out and attack me in my little corner of the world. In fact I have had muslims throwing me money while I sing Spirit in the Sky at the cove. I was always under the impression that God wanted to handle all the big jobs and we were to continue going around telling people that. I have no interest in Iraq but if some big superpower nation came over to my little hamlet and started blowing the crap out of my home and pushing me and my family around, you can bet I would do my best to sneak around and make their job tougher. 

Most of those little peace lovin fellas we are fighting in Iraq are not even Iraqis.

Saddam was the one that did the pushing and crap blowing. Just ask any non-Sunni Iraqi. They make up about 80% of Iraq.

Dan

[Guest yod]

Well, as long as your little corner of the world is safe, I reckon that's all that matters.

In the mean time, others are not so fortunate. All we are doing is trying to try, that's all.

Hopefully, Nova Scotia will never have to go through what New York, Washington, and Pennsylvania did, but if so, we'll be there to help.

[nebula]

Hopefully within the near future I will be in the Israeli military (plan to finish out my Master's study in Israel). In this case I will also hold citizenship there which means I will have to be involved in the military there.

Hey, SJ - that's really cool!!

super jew . . .

Your lighthearted remark of your witness exposes your knowledge of the Lord. But I forgot, jews don't believe in Christ.

Hold it, NITE OWL!

That was completely uncalled for.

You just accused SuperJew to his face of not believing in Christ.

I can throw a whole list of names of Jews who believe in Yeshua (Jesus) as their Messiah (Christ).

What do you intend to gain by such a slanderous lying comment as that?

[Constant]

nebula

I didn't know I said the military was a bad thing. I've spent many years in the military. Seen and done many things I'm not very proud of.

super jew

It's easy to pass judgement when someone else has to carry that judgement out.

You speak of mutilating bodies and bringing them to their families. I can't believe you would want someone to do that to you.

You keep bringing up God ordering women and children to be put to death. Is that what God means to you? A reason to commit violence? If we were to go with your reasoning, we should just pull all our people out of there and nuke'em all.

From your comment about "lazy faith" I can assume that you're in the military. Or you are somehow aiding in the death of terrorists.

Your lighthearted remark of your witness exposes your knowledge of the Lord. But I forgot, jews don't believe in Christ.

You have a nice day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is your meaning behind this comment?

[NITE OWL]

Hopefully within the near future I will be in the Israeli military (plan to finish out my Master's study in Israel). In this case I will also hold citizenship there which means I will have to be involved in the military there.

Hey, SJ - that's really cool!!

super jew . . .

Your lighthearted remark of your witness exposes your knowledge of the Lord. But I forgot, jews don't believe in Christ.

Hold it, NITE OWL!

That was completely uncalled for.

You just accused SuperJew to his face of not believing in Christ.

I can throw a whole list of names of Jews who believe in Yeshua (Jesus) as their Messiah (Christ).

What do you intend to gain by such a slanderous lying comment as that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you can show me where Christ taught that it is biblical to hate, torture, and kill our fellow man, then I will apologize. To my knowledge, Christ gave us no such commandment.

Calling ones self a christian and then advocating the torture of another human being is contrary to doctrine, is it not?

Since this war began we've all had thoughts such as his. I don't believe a christian website is the place to air those thoughts. I've stated many times that there are many new believers that come to this site looking for answers. Are hatred, torture and mutilation the answers we should be giving them?

Everyone has a right to his/her opinion and it is my opinion that comments such as his do nothing to edify the body of Christ. I could be wrong.

If we are going to call ourselves believers in Christ, then we should conduct ourselves as such.

[nebula]

But I forgot, jews don't believe in Christ.

If you can show me where Christ taught that it is biblical to hate, torture, and kill our fellow man, then I will apologize. To my knowledge, Christ gave us no such commandment.

(snip)

If we are going to call ourselves believers in Christ, then we should conduct ourselves as such.

That's no excuse for spitting in the face of every Jewish believer on this Board!

***

Yes, Jesus said that if someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

But He didn't say anything about friends not being allowed to defent their friends.

And this I will fight.

There are many Jews who believe in Jesus as their Messiah.

Will you cut them off from grace?

[NITE OWL]

Yes I admit the jew remark was uncalled for. My bad and I apologize. But if that's all you can find wrong with the rest of my comments...thank you.

[nebula]

Well, I don't necessarily agree with all you said - but that one comment just crawled under my skin really bad.

I'll accept your appology . . . but I think you might need to specifically ask for forgiveness from the other Jews on the board before their hearts can believe you mean it, you know?