The Barbarian Posted December 8, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,082 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 974 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2021 Just now, Sparks said: Defining something is not the same as having seen something. I just gave you a link to an example. Notice that AiG admits speciation is a fact. I linked to that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted December 8, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,159 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 2,513 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2021 Just now, The Barbarian said: I just gave you a link to an example. Notice that AiG admits speciation is a fact. I linked to that, too. I already admitted speciation is a fact. Of the 1400+ species of bats, they are still just bats (same kinds). They didn't become turtles, or whales growing off of a corn stalk. Like I said, when you see a cat give birth to dog, you have seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AandW_Rootbeer Posted December 8, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 586 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 167 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/10/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, The Barbarian said: That's a common misconception, but it's very false. Darwin's great discovery was that it isn't by chance. It's just a fact. He discovered why it isn't a matter of chance. No one here, so far as I know, said that. You might be thinking of another message board or maybe you didn't read carefully. Scripture takes no stand at all on evolution. I see where you are getting this baloney from. A Darwin evolutionist trying to make his hero look better. But all that was stated was it boils down to Natural Laws along with Natural Selection. So, it now all boils down to MURDERING traits not useful for traits that will help a Species to Adapt. So, you're talking in Circles! Like I said, and we will remove CHANCE, but you think MURDER in God's CREATION of Multiple forms of LIFE was the Process God used. Wow, if that IDEA does not stem from the pits of HELL, nothing does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-B Posted December 8, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,974 Content Per Day: 2.21 Reputation: 1,636 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/03/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2021 20 minutes ago, The Barbarian said: they will intentionally lie to you. That's quite an accusation there... ? Like I've said before, I've been to meetings in England, hosted by AiG. Two of the speakers brought in to share their knowledge and experience were English University Professors, experts in their field. They are also committed Believers. I cannot speak on behalf of the folks who are employed by AiG, but neither would I want to accuse them of intentionally lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyv Posted December 8, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,265 Content Per Day: 2.90 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2021 4 hours ago, B-B said: That's quite an accusation there... ? Like I've said before, I've been to meetings in England, hosted by AiG. Two of the speakers brought in to share their knowledge and experience were English University Professors, experts in their field. They are also committed Believers. I cannot speak on behalf of the folks who are employed by AiG, but neither would I want to accuse them of intentionally lying. Several years ago, AiG was posting sermons of Spurgeon. Spurgeon made some comment in one about "millions of years", which they deleted from the sermon (with no indication it had ever been there). Someone caught it and they since revised it, putting some half-baked footnote at the bottom. This is a serious ethical lapse, and I expect the highest standards from Christian organization such as AiG. One of the few articles by AiG I've read addressing the area of my specialty (mineral deposits) was written by Dr. Snelling. In that article he routinely cherry-picks data to support the AiG line, and simply ignores the astonishingly vast amount of information out there that does not support the point he was trying to make. Not "lying" perhaps, but definitely not being honest or forthright with the information. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-B Posted December 8, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,974 Content Per Day: 2.21 Reputation: 1,636 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/03/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, teddyv said: Several years ago, AiG was posting sermons of Spurgeon. Spurgeon made some comment in one about "millions of years", which they deleted from the sermon (with no indication it had ever been there). Someone caught it and they since revised it, putting some half-baked footnote at the bottom. This is a serious ethical lapse, and I expect the highest standards from Christian organization such as AiG. One of the few articles by AiG I've read addressing the area of my specialty (mineral deposits) was written by Dr. Snelling. In that article he routinely cherry-picks data to support the AiG line, and simply ignores the astonishingly vast amount of information out there that does not support the point he was trying to make. Not "lying" perhaps, but definitely not being honest or forthright with the information. Hi there ? If this is becoming a witch hunt against AiG .. I’m out. I too could spend my time digging for dirt on folks. I have greatly benefited from the teaching that I have personally received from the speakers at the events hosted by AiG. If you have a beef with them, take it up with them. Allow them to speak on their own behalf. Edited December 8, 2021 by B-B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyv Posted December 8, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,265 Content Per Day: 2.90 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2021 17 minutes ago, B-B said: Hi there ? If this is becoming a witch hunt against AiG .. I’m out. I too could spend my time digging for dirt on folks. I have greatly benefited from the teaching that I have personally received from the speakers at the events hosted by AiG. If you have a beef with them, take it up with them. Allow them to speak on their own behalf. Not a witch hunt - just some examples of why one should not implicitly trust someone/something because they are a Christian organization. Trust, but verify. I don't know the speakers that you have benefitted from or what they specifically spoke about so I can't comment there. They do have a broader range than just the core YEC doctrine. I've only had the opportunity to sit in on a speaker from Creation Ministries International. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-B Posted December 8, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,974 Content Per Day: 2.21 Reputation: 1,636 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/03/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, teddyv said: Not a witch hunt - just some examples of why one should not implicitly trust someone/something because they are a Christian organization. Trust, but verify. I don't know the speakers that you have benefitted from or what they specifically spoke about so I can't comment there. They do have a broader range than just the core YEC doctrine. I've only had the opportunity to sit in on a speaker from Creation Ministries International. Hey ? If you yourself have trust issues with this Christian organisation, then I’m sorry to hear this. I hope that you took things up with those concerned, as is the Christian thing to do. However, I don’t have a beef with them. If I did, I would take it up…with them. Edited December 8, 2021 by B-B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted December 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,082 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 974 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 9, 2021 8 hours ago, B-B said: Like I've said before, I've been to meetings in England, hosted by AiG. Two of the speakers brought in to share their knowledge and experience were English University Professors, experts in their field. They are also committed Believers. I cannot speak on behalf of the folks who are employed by AiG, but neither would I want to accuse them of intentionally lying. They put up the dishonestly altered statements of astronomers Clark and Caswell, only removing that dishonesty after being caught. They have dishonestly redefined "evolution" in order to avoid the truth about speciation, which is a documented fact. There's more. Would you like me to show you more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted December 9, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,082 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 974 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 9, 2021 8 hours ago, AandW_Rootbeer said: I see where you are getting this baloney from. A Darwin evolutionist trying to make his hero look better. I get that you're not happy to learn about this. But natural selection is the antithesis of chance. That was Darwin's great discovery. It's not about chance. 8 hours ago, AandW_Rootbeer said: But all that was stated was it boils down to Natural Laws along with Natural Selection. No, but as you learned, natural selection is one agency of evolution. and yes, evolution does follow natural laws. 8 hours ago, AandW_Rootbeer said: So, it now all boils down to MURDERING traits not useful for traits that will help a Species to Adapt. You have that backwards, too. First natural selection has no intent; so no murder involved. Just organisms that are more fit, leaving more offspring. And of course, it tends to preserve useful traits and new mutations. That's been repeatedly demonstrated. Would you like me to show you some more examples? And if you think God does not cause death and pain in His divine providence, you are rebelling against His word: Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Accept it His way, not the way you'd like it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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