Defense of the Mid Trib Rapture

[Larry 2]

1 hour ago, ghtan said:

If I am not mistaken, you are suggesting a multi-rapture theory. I really don't think it will happen that way. But we have our own views.

Agreed, and yes I am attempting to show a multi-rapture theory, but check this out.

Not only that but each rank of the resurrection will have different proximities to God’s throne just as John was shown them.

Rev 4:4   Twenty-four elders round about the throne . . . (With Christ in heaven prior to the tribulation)

Rev 4:6   Four living ones or beasts as the KJV describes them in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne. (With Christ in heaven prior to the tribulation)

And according to Rev 5:9  And they (four beasts and four and twenty elders) sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Rev 5:10  And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (over) the earth.

Rev 7:9   A great multitude stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, and in Rev 7:15  we see them serving God day and night in his temple.

Rev 14:1  And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion (Heavenly Jerusalem), and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And in Rev 14:4 These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits (Of Israel) unto God and to the Lamb.

In Christ Jesus.

[Sister]

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I would ask what you consider to be Christ’s coming. For instance, to me there are different trumps, different raptures as it were if you’re into using that description for “Being caught up.”

Christ's coming is when he defeats all those armies who gather against him at Armageddon.

I was trying to show you in those scriptures I gave, that the apostles were a "type" of first-fruit.  They are not part of the 1st resurrection, because they are with Christ and his "foundations".  We follow Christ and those foundations (teachings) given to us by those whom Christ chose to give record in the scriptures.

The other first-fruits, are those of the first resurrection.  They are taken up just "before" the dead in Christ rise, and those who are alive picked up.  They are not mentioned in this resurrection, because they are picked up already.  I believe they will be picked up before the 7 trumpets sound, and I believe they are those who stand inside the temple worshiping at the altar.  I don't believe they are of Jewish blood solely, but are numbered amongst the 12 tribes of Israel, for they are adopted into the fold, but receive the promises of the spirit, (quickening) and not of the flesh (remnants being brought into the kingdom during the millennium)

Larry, I have put two and two together.

Revelation 11:1   And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

  Revelation 11:2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

We all know that persecution of the saints is coming when the False Prophet comes.  The saints will be given into the hands of the gentiles, and they will do whatever they like with us.  This concerns those "in the court".  The ones that are not measured.  It is a kind of punishment in my opinion because all the Christians in this lot are found wanting because their robes are not fully clean....there is sin remaining unrepented of.  On the other hand, this is also a blessing, for it is a "last chance" to get it right with God, lest we be condemned forever, and have that opportunity to choose him over our lives.  Those who are offended because of the Word will not go through it (persecution).  God is separating the goats from the sheep.  We should all not be too sure of ourselves, because sometimes we are blinded to our sins, and should take our salvation with trembling and fear.  I am prepared to go through it, lest I puff myself up and become too complacent.  We are to be humble and take the lowest seat.

However, I know there is a small small group who follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes (the 144,000).  Christ said that there is no difference between Jew or Greek.  So if this small elite group are Jews only then the Lord has shown preference, which contradicts what he says in many chapters.  Whether Jew or Greek, if we serve the Lamb with a pure heart, abiding in his Word fully, then for this lot, it will be the same as in the days of Noah's ark.  They will be spared to NOT be trodden down and NOT put into the hands of the gentiles, because they are found to be worshiping at the ALTAR.  They have given their sacrifices with a pure heart before the Lord during their walk, and HAVE made their robes WHITE by following the Lamb wheresoever he goes (OBEYING).  These are sheep who have not strayed and stayed true. These are the first fruits who are sealed before the 7 trumpets begin.  I dare not put myself into this number, but I know there is a special group out there who Christ has fed, and their loyalty is rewarded.

Now if the temple and the altar and those in it are measured before the gentiles tread the holy city for 3 1/2 yrs, then to me, this appears to be the sealing of the 144,000.  And if they wont be trodden on by the gentiles, as we know the whole christian world will, then where are they?  They must be taken up already?  It's such a small number, so they must be the cream of the crop and spared from the fiery trial.  Maybe they overcame many trials through their walk and will be found fully clothed, dressed in White and their sacrifices (of the heart) accepted.

144,000 is not a random number.  It is an exact 12,000 of every tribe, so they must be the chosen hand picked, and fully fed by Christ who stayed faithful through the end times, the most wicked of days ever recorded in history, and unaffected through false doctrines (strange flesh), corrupted bibles, the word of men, and not part of the world system as commanded by Christ (Babylon).

That's how I see it.

 

 

 

 

[Larry 2]

On 7/6/2016 at 11:43 AM, Sister said:

I know there is a small small group who follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes (the 144,000).  Christ said that there is no difference between Jew or Greek.  So if this small elite group are Jews only then the Lord has shown preference, which contradicts what he says in many chapters.

Good morning dear Sister. I have no idea how I missed this post until now, and am sorry. You speak of the 144,000 perhaps being a select group, and indeed they are. Of course we read of them being sealed in Rev 7:3-8, but notice an oddity not shown in the 24 elders and 4 living ones the 144,000 appear if front of in Rev 14:3. They sing a different song none other could learn. Was it a song of experience? They were caught up after all the rest of the church was already in heaven.

Rev 7:3  Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

In scripture the earth is oft referencing Israel and the sea the Gentile nations, and that is especially pertinent here because it is speaking of those not saved. We who are saved need no further chances, and them that are not caught up in the pre-tribulation portion of the rapture were not ready, and chosen to be the very bride of Christ.

Oh you might say: all the Church is the bride. I would suggest reading the type of the bride shown us in Genesis Chapter Twenty-four. The allegory shows Abraham (Our father) sending his eldest servant (type of Holy Spirit) among his people (The Church) to seek a bride (Rebekah) for his son Isaac (Type of Christ).

Rev 19:7-8 also puts it this way:

Rev 19:7  Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. (Righteous acts)

Another allegory or example of the relationship experienced by Jesus’ bride is that between Solomon and the Shulamite in the Song of Solomon. If you began reading the qualifications there notice that she is always referred to as “Love”, and him as “Beloved.”

One last thing is that of the resurrection. All in Christ ever will be a part of the First resurrection, and never come to judgment. Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Although them being caught up in ranks is shown as John is shown them arriving at different times. Rev 4:4, Rev 4:6, Rev 7:9. and Rev 12:5 & 14:1.

Love to you in Jesus’ name.

 

[Sister]

12 hours ago, Larry 2 said:

Good morning dear Sister. I have no idea how I missed this post until now, and am sorry. You speak of the 144,000 perhaps being a select group, and indeed they are. Of course we read of them being sealed in Rev 7:3-8, but notice an oddity not shown in the 24 elders and 4 living ones the 144,000 appear if front of in Rev 14:3. They sing a different song none other could learn. Was it a song of experience? They were caught up after all the rest of the church was already in heaven.

Rev 7:3  Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

In scripture the earth is oft referencing Israel and the sea the Gentile nations, and that is especially pertinent here because it is speaking of those not saved. We who are saved need no further chances, and them that are not caught up in the pre-tribulation portion of the rapture were not ready, and chosen to be the very bride of Christ.

Oh you might say: all the Church is the bride. I would suggest reading the type of the bride shown us in Genesis Chapter Twenty-four. The allegory shows Abraham (Our father) sending his eldest servant (type of Holy Spirit) among his people (The Church) to seek a bride (Rebekah) for his son Isaac (Type of Christ).

Rev 19:7-8 also puts it this way:

Rev 19:7  Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. (Righteous acts)

Another allegory or example of the relationship experienced by Jesus’ bride is that between Solomon and the Shulamite in the Song of Solomon. If you began reading the qualifications there notice that she is always referred to as “Love”, and him as “Beloved.”

One last thing is that of the resurrection. All in Christ ever will be a part of the First resurrection, and never come to judgment. Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Although them being caught up in ranks is shown as John is shown them arriving at different times. Rev 4:4, Rev 4:6, Rev 7:9. and Rev 12:5 & 14:1.

Love to you in Jesus’ name.

 

 

Hi Larry 2, thank you for taking the time to answer me.

Yes I see the 144,000 as a small select group.  This is what I picked up from the scriptures;

In Rev 4, the 24 elders are around the throne of God when the Lamb opened the 7 seals.  The 7 seals were opened during Johns day, during the rule of the Roman Empire.  There are only 24 elders around that throne.  These 24 elders were redeemed from man, so I see these as taken up already back then, as they are in my opinion, Christ's foundations, chosen by him to spread the gospels which we have to go through first, learning the basics before the solids are given.  These 24 are one with the Lamb, and sent to teach us, therefore that song that they sing that no man knows is  the FULL TRUTH.  The complete doctrine of God as the Lamb has revealed everything to them only at that stage in time.

The scriptures do not mention these 24 being taken up, but in Rev 4 we have a small insight that they are there, and something to work out in the spirit if the spirit will show us.

Secondly, the 144,000 are sealed in Chapter 7, over 2000 years after the lamb opened the seals, so these are of the last generation.  Why I say this is that they are obviously sealed (protected) from what is about to follow - the wrath.  Notice the angels are commanded to not hurt the earth or the sea, or the trees until these 144,000 are sealed?  What happens when the wrath of God starts? (the 7 angels), they start off by hurting the green trees (1/3 fire over the earth), then the sea (1/3 of the waters smitten), then the rivers and fountains of water (1/3 also).  So just before all this takes place, the 144,000 are sealed with God's mark, as the angels are ready to let go of the four winds of heaven.

Next in Rev 14, a little more detail is given of who these 144,000 are.  The fact that they follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes is a clear indicator they are in Christ obeying all his commandments.  They are also redeemed from the earth, and are standing around the throne now where the 24 elders are standing, also singing the Song of the Lamb that no man knows.  This can only mean one thing, just like the 24 elders who were given everything, these 144,000 have built on their foundation which is Christ, and the Lamb has fed them everything also.  They were good students in other words, and learnt of that doctrine that was given, received it even in the end times.

Now the 144,000 are called "the first-fruits" to God and the Lamb.  First-fruits go first, not last, otherwise they wouldn't be called the "first-fruits".  If we continue reading Rev chapter 14, after these 144K are mentioned, then we have the angel preaching the everlasting gospel, and the 3rd angel warning the world not to receive the Mark of the Beast that is coming.  So common sense tells me, that these 144,000 will not be here during the 7 trumpets/vials, but taken up just before.

I see it like the same as when Abraham was prepared to offer up his son as a sacrifice, but at the last moment God spared him, because God knew his intent, and it was as good as done.  The same for these 144,000 who are willing in their hearts to do all that God has commanded, taking the good with the bad, fully prepared to make it through the storm, but saved from that storm at the last moment, totally unaware, and taken to safety, to not be trodden down by the gentiles (the beast and the false prophet).

And I believe these are the same as those measured in the temple standing at the altar.  They have true worship.  They are separated spiritually from the rest who are standing in the court which can only be the Christian land who's sacrifices are not accepted at that stage, therefore they have to be put through the fire to make their robes white.

May the good Lord full of mercy deliver us from the hand of the serpent, for the serpent never rests day nor night and has subtly deceived the christian land also, as these are the ones he goes after the most to give them false security.  We need to go through the scriptures with a fine tooth comb, and obey all the instructions given to us down to a T, worshiping in pure truth, lest we get deceived and become too complacent in our walk ignorant of his devices.  We need to build our faith on the foundation already given to us and covet the same spiritual things that the 144,000 are given and have the same heart as them, pure and without hypocrisy, not lifting ourselves up, but with all humility, feeding ourselves on what the Lamb has given us for the pure love of his righteousness and mercy and everything he is and stands for in the Kingdom of God.

God bless you too.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Sister

[Larry 2]

2 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Larry 2, thank you for taking the time to answer me.

Yes I see the 144,000 as a small select group.  This is what I picked up from the scriptures;

In Rev 4, the 24 elders are around the throne of God when the Lamb opened the 7 seals.  The 7 seals were opened during Johns day, during the rule of the Roman Empire.  There are only 24 elders around that throne.  These 24 elders were redeemed from man, so I see these as taken up already back then, as they are in my opinion, Christ's foundations, chosen by him to spread the gospels which we have to go through first, learning the basics before the solids are given.  These 24 are one with the Lamb, and sent to teach us, therefore that song that they sing that no man knows is  the FULL TRUTH.  The complete doctrine of God as the Lamb has revealed everything to them only at that stage in time.

The scriptures do not mention these 24 being taken up, but in Rev 4 we have a small insight that they are there, and something to work out in the spirit if the spirit will show us.

Secondly, the 144,000 are sealed in Chapter 7, over 2000 years after the lamb opened the seals, so these are of the last generation.  Why I say this is that they are obviously sealed (protected) from what is about to follow - the wrath.  Notice the angels are commanded to not hurt the earth or the sea, or the trees until these 144,000 are sealed?  What happens when the wrath of God starts? (the 7 angels), they start off by hurting the green trees (1/3 fire over the earth), then the sea (1/3 of the waters smitten), then the rivers and fountains of water (1/3 also).  So just before all this takes place, the 144,000 are sealed with God's mark, as the angels are ready to let go of the four winds of heaven.

Next in Rev 14, a little more detail is given of who these 144,000 are.  The fact that they follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes is a clear indicator they are in Christ obeying all his commandments.  They are also redeemed from the earth, and are standing around the throne now where the 24 elders are standing, also singing the Song of the Lamb that no man knows.  This can only mean one thing, just like the 24 elders who were given everything, these 144,000 have built on their foundation which is Christ, and the Lamb has fed them everything also.  They were good students in other words, and learnt of that doctrine that was given, received it even in the end times.

Now the 144,000 are called "the first-fruits" to God and the Lamb.  First-fruits go first, not last, otherwise they wouldn't be called the "first-fruits".  If we continue reading Rev chapter 14, after these 144K are mentioned, then we have the angel preaching the everlasting gospel, and the 3rd angel warning the world not to receive the Mark of the Beast that is coming.  So common sense tells me, that these 144,000 will not be here during the 7 trumpets/vials, but taken up just before.

I see it like the same as when Abraham was prepared to offer up his son as a sacrifice, but at the last moment God spared him, because God knew his intent, and it was as good as done.  The same for these 144,000 who are willing in their hearts to do all that God has commanded, taking the good with the bad, fully prepared to make it through the storm, but saved from that storm at the last moment, totally unaware, and taken to safety, to not be trodden down by the gentiles (the beast and the false prophet).

And I believe these are the same as those measured in the temple standing at the altar.  They have true worship.  They are separated spiritually from the rest who are standing in the court which can only be the Christian land who's sacrifices are not accepted at that stage, therefore they have to be put through the fire to make their robes white.

May the good Lord full of mercy deliver us from the hand of the serpent, for the serpent never rests day nor night and has subtly deceived the christian land also, as these are the ones he goes after the most to give them false security.  We need to go through the scriptures with a fine tooth comb, and obey all the instructions given to us down to a T, worshiping in pure truth, lest we get deceived and become too complacent in our walk ignorant of his devices.  We need to build our faith on the foundation already given to us and covet the same spiritual things that the 144,000 are given and have the same heart as them, pure and without hypocrisy, not lifting ourselves up, but with all humility, feeding ourselves on what the Lamb has given us for the pure love of his righteousness and mercy and everything he is and stands for in the Kingdom of God.

God bless you too.

Dear Sister, I do not know your thinking as the dispensations occurring in prophesy, but I’ll just run my thinking by you. In Rev 1:1 we read “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by His angel (Who is this?) unto his servant John, and when was this?

Hopefully my next couple thoughts will give you help in determining these things. John said in Rev 1:10,  I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet. Now this Lord’s Day is the same Day of the Lord we read of in 1 Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. John is caught forward in time to the Lord’s day and shown three viewpoints from that perspective.

Rev 1:19  Write the things which thou hast seen , and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter. We see that view given to John starting with Rev 4:1. . . Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter, and that is from that point in time at the beginning of the Lord’s Day. Please notice that the 144,000 are not seen by John in heaven yet. There is definite scripture where they are caught up unto God’s throne.

Please allow me to see how this is received before adding to it. Thanks.

[Sister]

6 hours ago, Larry 2 said:

Please allow me to see how this is received before adding to it. Thanks.

 

Hi Larry

Yes I will do my best without going too far ahead.

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Dear Sister, I do not know your thinking as the dispensations occurring in prophesy, but I’ll just run my thinking by you. In Rev 1:1 we read “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by His angel (Who is this?) unto his servant John, and when was this?

Are you asking me to identify which angel gave the revelation to John?  I don't know, it doesn't say. It's not important in my view, but the message is.

Do you want me to state when John was revealed all this?  I know John was the youngest apostle.  He was banished to the isle of Patmos, where many criminals were sent by the Romans to serve out their prison terms in harsh conditions, according to outside records, because it's not stated in the bible.  I do not know when exactly, or how long he was there for, but I envision him being a very old man personally.  This could be around 70 ad give or take, and maybe someone else could confirm this better.  I am only interested in what he has to say.

Revelation 1:9   I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You quoted;

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Revelation 1:1   The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

 

 

 

I don't know what you are trying to say by highlighting "Which must shortly come to pass"?

please consider these scriptures also;

Revelation 1:2   Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Revelation 1:3   Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

John 7:6   Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.

 Revelation 1:19   Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

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Hopefully my next couple thoughts will give you help in determining these things. John said in Rev 1:10,  I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet. Now this Lord’s Day is the same Day of the Lord we read of in 1 Th 5:2  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. John is caught forward in time to the Lord’s day and shown three viewpoints from that perspective.

Yes I agree with you about "the Lords day".  But the book of revelation also includes "the leading up" to the Lords day..  John saw the triumph of Christ, his return and victory and will go on to explain as we read into the chapters.

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Rev 1:19  Write the things which thou hast seen , and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter. We see that view given to John starting with Rev 4:1. . . Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter, and that is from that point in time at the beginning of the Lord’s Day. Please notice that the 144,000 are not seen by John in heaven yet. There is definite scripture where they are caught up unto God’s throne.

I see where you are coming from now!  I don't see Rev 4 as "The Lords day", as in the day of his Coming.  John was given a vision of who was around the throne before the Lamb even opened up the 7 seals.  This is way before the "Lords day", over 2000 years before and shows us that those 24 elders are already there when the seals were opened before John's eyes.

So when John says he was in the spirit on the Lord's day, he is generalising that he was shown everything.  He sees the resurrection of the saints,  the punishment of Babylon, the kingdoms being torn down, judgement, everything and all the things leading up to it also, and the things that are at that time.

 

[Larry 2]

4 hours ago, Sister said:

I don't know what you are trying to say by highlighting "Which must shortly come to pass"?

From the perspective of the Lord’s day when Jesus received His own throne Rev 4:2); that’s when His day begins, and He is told to come up hither in Rev 4:1 to be shown things after this present age.

4 hours ago, Sister said:

I agree with you about "the Lords day".  But the book of revelation also includes "the leading up" to the Lords day..  John saw the triumph of Christ, his return and victory and will go on to explain as we read into the chapters.

I agree, and that time John is told to write about after being caught forward to the Lord’s Day in Spirit which would be “The things that are” is this present time, but again seeing it in a backward glance from the Lord’s Day. (Notice Spirit being capitalized in Rev 1:10 - is that relevant? I think so.)

What I’m attempting to have you consider is that when Jesus takes His own throne (Rev 4:2) there are two groups with Him prior to tribulation. Now in Revelation we are looking and speaking of the Church which the twenty-four elders and four living ones are a part of, and they are round bout and in the midst of Jesus’ throne before any others John is shown.

In Rev Rev 5:9  And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; (Not just Israel)

Jas 1:18  Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Where is the 144,000 at this point of the Lord’s Day. And as to the importance of the firstfruits we see one of them being used in judgment in Rev 6:1  And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

[Sister]

Hi Larry

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Where is the 144,000 at this point of the Lord’s Day.

They are here;

 Revelation 14:1   And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
 

The Lamb is standing on Mt Sion (The Kingdom of God). And with him is the 144,000 only, not the rest yet......They are with Christ first, not last. The Lamb has not even come down to judge yet, because the angels give the final warning of the Mark of the Beast which is about to come as in verse 9. 

 Revelation 14:2   And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

  Revelation 14:3   And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

  Revelation 14:4   These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

  Revelation 14:5   And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

  Revelation 14:6   And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

  Revelation 14:7   Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

  Revelation 14:8   And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

  Revelation 14:9   And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

  Revelation 14:10   The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

  Revelation 14:11   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

  Revelation 14:12   Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

  Revelation 14:13   And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

  Revelation 14:14   And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

  Revelation 14:15   And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

  Revelation 14:16   And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

  Revelation 14:17   And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

  Revelation 14:18   And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

  Revelation 14:19   And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

  Revelation 14:20   And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

 

This is what I am trying to convey and have shown the whole chapter so that you can see what I mean.  The 144,000 are standing in front of the throne before the tribulation even starts.  They know the same song as the 24 elders.  And no one else in the whole world knows this song but them. Together, they make up the first generations of Christ, ie. the chosen apostles, and the last generation of the world, a small number chosen to close off the testimony but this time as living witnesses to what is already written and instructed.  This proves one thing, that the true doctrine delivered to us by the Lamb and his chosen apostles have made it through to the very end of times.  This means that the same song they all know is everything that the Lamb has taught them, sound doctrine.  Not everyone gets to receive this, because we have stumbled in our walk.

This song sounds strange to the Christian land who rely on scholars to teach us, or books, and websites.  When we hear something different explained to us, or a different interpretation, we don't accept, or quickly dismiss because it's not in our normal teachings and sounds strange.  We have erred, because we have been feeding on strange flesh.  This is why we don't all know the song of the Lamb, for it has not been given to all of us, but only to the 144,000.  We should all be preaching the same doctrine, but we are not, there is confusion and differences of opinions even in the same church.  This will all change at the resurrection of all the saints at the Coming, as there is only one truth and we will all speak the same Word when our perfection comes.

[Larry 2]

2 hours ago, Sister said:

The 144,000 are standing in front of the throne before the tribulation even starts. 

I’ll admit the 144,000 are in heaven before Jacob’s trouble, or the second half of the tribulation begins, but the twenty-four elders (Rev 4:4), the four beasts (Rev 4:6), and even the great multitude (Rev 7:14) are seen in heaven before they are.

2 hours ago, Sister said:

They know the same song as the 24 elders.  And no one else in the whole world knows this song but them.

I certainly don’t see that, because Rev 14:3  And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. (Notice the twenty-four elders in this verse are said to not be able to learn the song).

Let me add another thing to the mix. Rev 14:4  These (144,000) are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. (Any bells going off yet?)

2 hours ago, Sister said:

When we hear something different explained to us, or a different interpretation, we don't accept, or quickly dismiss because it's not in our normal teachings and sounds strange.  We have erred, because we have been feeding on strange flesh. 

What strange flesh have you been feeding on? (Please forgive me; I couldn’t resist. J)

[Sister]

Hi Larry

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I’ll admit the 144,000 are in heaven before Jacob’s trouble, or the second half of the tribulation begins, but the twenty-four elders (Rev 4:4), the four beasts (Rev 4:6), and even the great multitude (Rev 7:14) are seen in heaven before they are.

Revelation 7:3   Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 7:9   After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13   And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Revelation 7:14   And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Did you notice something? 

 

Look here now and please discern the scriptures like we are supposed to.  It's not laid out easy in exact order for us to just pick up and understand clearly, no there are clues everywhere, and like a big jigsaw puzzle, we have to connect these scriptures and see where they all fit into the big picture.  This is why we have to "seek", or else it would be all laid out plainly.  The pieces have to fit in the right places.

 Revelation 11:1   And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

  Revelation 11:2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

This means that  only those standing in the altar of the temple are measured, and the rest of the court is about to be trodden on by the gentiles for 3 1/2 yrs.  Please explain if the resurrection is completed then?  Why measure the temple now if the resurrection is completed, and those who have to make their robes white through tribulation have already done so?  The 3 1/2 yr tribulation here is about to start.  This is that sealing we just read in chapter 7, it's them the 144K measured (sealed) because the rest have to go through tribulation and be given into the hands of the gentiles.

now look here and see if you can connect these scriptures?

 Revelation 14:1   And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

  Revelation 14:2   And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

  Revelation 14:3   And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

I gave you the rest of the chapter before to show you what comes next after this in the very same chapter.  The seven angels are about to start.  You see that the mass resurrection has already taken place, forgetting that they must go through tribulation first to make their robes white.  It's not all over in Rev 7, it's just a vision where John is taken to at that time showing him the sealing and then the end concerning the saints.  It's condensed.
 

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I certainly don’t see that, because Rev 14:3  And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. (Notice the twenty-four elders in this verse are said to not be able to learn the song).

The 144,000 only sung as it were a new song, because it's not a new song, the 24 elders were given it first.  The song exists, and the majority Christian land don't know it, which is why they have to make their robes clean through tribulation.  And no it doesn't say that the 24 elders do not know the song, how did you get this?

 Revelation 5:9   And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

The 24 elders were given the new song first which are the teachings and revelation of Christ and knowledge of all the prophecies, and I mean full knowledge, pure sound doctrine.  So when the 144,000 get to learn this song, it's not new anymore is it?  Only new if you don't know it.  The 144K have been following the Lamb wheresoever he goes, so they were given this song during their walk before they are even taken up.  They are the sheep Christ has fed.
 

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What strange flesh have you been feeding on? (Please forgive me; I couldn’t resist. J)

That's ok, you can mock but I will explain.  All these scriptures I have given you is the flesh I have been feeding on, and I pasted these scriptures here so you can feed on them also.  Nice talking to you.  No point in going around and around in circles.  I have said what I said, you can either consider it or leave it, it wont hurt my feelings.

God bless.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Sister