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Larry 2

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About Larry 2

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  1. On the throne in heaven set for Him in Rev 4:2. Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb . . Thanks for your time, and I'm bailing on this thread. First of all, I have great trouble finding answers to my questions, and then I don't receive notifications of replies on this forum, making it hard to just find the thread replies. E.g., I have yet to find anyone on any forum to ever tell me who Jesus' angel is; it's very hard having a one sided discussion. Blessings in Christ Jesus.
  2. Good morning Brother Last Daze. That said, I'm assuming you believe that any present with Jesus in scripture prior to Rev 6:16-17 are not pre-trib saints? Who are the twenty-four elders & four living ones with Jesus in Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6? How do they get there prior to the seals being opened? Aren't they part of the Church? The living ones are even associated with Jesus in the opening of the seals in Rev 6:1, Rev 6:3, Rev 6:4, & Rev 6:7. Are they priviledged, or just written in for effect? Who is Jesus' angel? Thanks.
  3. I don’t know your background concerning the tribulation, and the coming millennium, but please allow me to suggest that when the Son of Man (Jesus) coming with great power and great glory will be in the time referred to as the Day of the Lord. The book of Matthew, chapter twenty-four is a real outline of the tribulation that will accompany that event. Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Now those present, and/or alive to observe all this, and that including seeing Jesus have taken that royal kingship, will also be privileged to see prophesy fulfilled Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled (and only then). Who really knows the time frame of all this? I take it that you believe that any present when Israel repossessed Cannaan so to speak would be here when Jesus comes. I’ll quit here lest I drag this into something you’re not caring to hear.
  4. Considering this portion of scripture concerning the Man Child, do you read that Zion being delivered of a Man Child below is Mary giving birth to Jesus? Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. (This certainly didn't happen to Jesus when He was born; He pent 30+ years before ascending to His Father.) What of Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh (Who is he that overcomes?), and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I (Isn’t this Jesus speaking?) give power over the nations: Rev 2:27 And he (the overcomer?) shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. You said that the scripture in Rev 12:1 was referring to Jesus, and inserted there as a parenthesis from that future viewpoint I read as of being the middle of the tribulation. I cannot see that at all; Rev 4:1 tells John the things he will see from that point will be the hereafter. If the viewpoint referred to Jesus, it would have been things which John had seen. Rev 1:19. Thanks for your time, and I reckon none of this matters other than have us prepare for Jesus’ coming.
  5. Hi Babbler. I'm not really following your reasoning on this thread, and was hoping others would fill in the holes of my understanding prior to actually jumping in without knowing if man's recognition of a national event equated to true prophesy. You mention a generation since Jewish inhabitants returned to the land where their second temple was destroyed. I may be wrong here, but isn't there more to be had before they can say they really can say they're a nation? I personally see their absolute destination to be a nation in the future when God turns back to dealing with them as a nation after the tribulation. Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? Are we talking about two different things hers? Thanks.
  6. Hi dear brother, and thanks for your reply. I'll attempt to bring forth another group that was caught up to the third heaven when Jesus rose from the grave, and that was those of Abraham's bosom (paradise), but to my understanding they were not a part of the Church., and were of Israel. The time now that John was shown had to be the things which are up to the time of the rapture. To my understanding, John was shown none of this prior to the time He was caught away in spirit to the Lord's day, and even that was somewhere around 90 AD or so. Something to consider is the fact that Revelation Chapters Two & Three cover the entire judgment of the Church, or there would be no provision of those remaining alive ant Jesus' coming in the air to the church in Philadelphia that had patiently endured in the word to be kept from the temptation to come upon all the world (1st 3 1/2 years of seven years of Dan 9:27). Blessings in Christ Jesus.
  7. Hi Brother Dennis1209, I agree that the twenty-four elders are of the Church, but a special portion of it. In every part of the resurrection there will be an order following the example of 1 Thes 4:16-17. (The dead in Christ & those alive at Jesus' appearing) 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (To me these are the 24 elders represented by the church in Smyrna that remained faithful unto death - Rev 2:10) 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (These to me are those alive at Jesus' appearing in the air, the four living ones that are those of the church in Philadelphia kept from the temptation to come upon all the air told us in Rev 3:10) You mentioned them being priests, and a very special priestly laver (The glass sea) separates them from others of the Church. Their proximity is round bout Jesus' throne (Rev 4:4), & in the midst of the throne (Rev 4:6). Compare them to those John see appear before the throne of the Great multitude of Rev 7:14-15. Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. My thoughts.
  8. I have no idea how you came up with Michael as being the Man Child born of the wonder woman of Rev 12:1. I'm supposing you've bought into the idea of the Lord's Day being Sunday instead the beginning future Day of the Lord that I say John was caught forward to, and that to record what is to occur from that viewpoint, write of them, and send them unto the seven churches located in Asia. Thanks.
  9. Hi Diaste, rewards or lack of them constitute the place we have in reigning with Christ, and the Judgment seat of Christ we read of in Revelation Chapters Two & Three reveals parts of what can be expected. First remember that the seven portions of the Church is the One Body of Christ regardless their spiritual walk. Consider a couple warnings. Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. That temptation to come upon all the world of Rev 3:10 during the first three and one-half years of the seven year tribulation of Dan 9:27 is no picnic. Sardis in Rev 3:3. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Out of the seven conditions of the Church in which we might fit according to our walk, there are only two; Philadelphia, and Smyrna that are commended. What of the remainder? Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God (They finally get to heaven?), and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. When we come to Revelation Chapter twelve we see the entire body of believers represented by the wonder woman in Rev 12:1. Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. This is the last three and one-half years of the seven years of tribulation.
  10. You haven't heard the half of it. Outside the Church, no salvation. 1. The axiom is a revealed truth which must be believed by Catholics: but it must be understood in the sense in which the Church understands it, not according to the personal interpretation of any individual. 2. The axiom means that Christ commands all men to be baptized into the Catholic Church and to remain therein, united to the pope, who is the Vicar of Christ on earth. Hence anyone knowing of this strict command of Christ and refusing to obey it cannot be saved. 3. All men are not only commanded to join the Church, but Christ also has made the Catholic Church the means by which they are to enter into heaven. The above axiom is transcribed from my Catholic Dictionary by The Catholic Press in 1958 This doctrine has been changed so as to be better understood. I reckon that when I was in the Catholic Church, I didn’t understand what remaining united to the Pope meant.
  11. Hi Brother Diaste, the answer is their spiritual walk, and a sea of glass (laver) separates them and others from their proximity to Jesus’ throne. Certain ones are caught up round bout, and in the midst of Jesus’ throne, reign with Him as kings and priests (Rev 5:10), while others of Rev 7:15 are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple. Do you see a difference? What we are kept from is the temptation to come upon all the world IF we endure in the word of God (Rev 3:10), and that’s the first 3 ½ years of the 7 years of tribulation. Those not ready enter into that very time of tribulation, and make their robes white in the blood of the Lamb according to Rev 7:14. Even during the woes poured out in Rev 9:4, believers; all with the seal of God in their foreheads are not allowed to be harmed. Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree(All these representing believers); but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. Actually there is none of the Church that enters the second half of the tribulation on the earth when the man of sin will reign; that is the time of Jacob’s trouble, and great wrath poured out. My thoughts.
  12. Dear Brother Fidei Defensor, all that are of the Church, the martyrs of Rev 20:4 and/or the righteous from all time will be raised to reign in some manner with Jesus in His Day. We believers will be raised in different groups, or caught up in we call being raptured unto our Savior before Jesus thousand years reign begins. Just an example are the 24 elders & 4 living ones of Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. 2Ti 2:12 If we (believers) suffer (endure), we shall also reign with him: . . Blessings in Christ Jesus. :)
  13. Dear BrutalHeart, if you know many things God allows, you may be familiar with the book of Job. God allowed Satan to test him, and it came to the point of that perfect and upright man, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil (Job 1:1), that he gave this following statement. Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived. Wow, is God unjust? Peter explained it this way in In 1Pe 1:6. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: God also asks in Heb 4:16 that we come to Him for the help we seek. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Is suffering part of the equation of our spiritual growth? Heb 5:8 Though He (Jesus) were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered; Aren't we told in Rom 8:28, we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Did Paul know something we need to learn? Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. Should we pray for others? Of course, and as others have already said of Jas 5:16, . . pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. The righteous are all that are in Christ, and partaking is beneficial to our own spiritual growth as well. Blessings in Christ Jesus.
  14. To me those 490 years of Daniel appear to be all blessings that have been throughly finished according to the scripture in Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. These seventy weeks were all promised blessings for Israel, even under Gentile rule. There is going to be another week of tribulation according to Dan 9:27, but as a dear brother in Christ Gene Hawkins wrote: "The week in Daniel 9:27 is another week, and because Israel rejected Him, this week is not going to be a week of blessing, but it is going to be a week of unparalleled judgment." This won't change the price of rice, but it gives us cause to think on these things. Thanks for your response.
  15. Dear Brother in Christ Fidel Defensor, what those Pharisees were doing in my opinion were throwing the old tactic of law keeping at Jesus. True fasting was not denying self, but being a blessing to others, although much of the Church adapted those Jewish habits. If you read Matthew 6:16, you’ll see those did their fasting to be noticed. Let’s take a look at a true fast. Isa 58:4 . . . ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward. Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. Blessings in Christ Jesus.
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