Montana Marv Posted April 9, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2013 rollinThunder There are only two fates: Newly transformed bodies for an Eternity with Christ. or Newly transformed bodies for an Eternity without Christ. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted April 9, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 9, 2013 rollinThunder There are only two fates: Newly transformed bodies for an Eternity with Christ. or Newly transformed bodies for an Eternity without Christ. In Christ Montana Marv There are only two resurrections. In the first resurrection, the righteous are raised up to reign with Christ for 1000 years. In the second resurrection, the unrighteous will be resurrected and stand before the great white throne, for deeds committed before Christ' second coming to reign for 1000 years, and also those that Satan gathers after his release. Nothing about the righteous. There is nothing written in scripture that speaks of another resurrection for more righteous born after His second coming or during the millennium. The great white throne is set up after God sends fire upon Satan's camp and destroys them. Only the unrighteous are resurrected and then judged there, not the righteous (Rev. 20:7-15). Nothing there about those born during the millennium. If you have some biblical evidence or scriptures that disprove this, I'd like to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 10, 2013 rollinThunder There are only two fates: Newly transformed bodies for an Eternity with Christ. or Newly transformed bodies for an Eternity without Christ. In Christ Montana Marv There are only two resurrections. In the first resurrection, the righteous are raised up to reign with Christ for 1000 years. In the second resurrection, the unrighteous will be resurrected and stand before the great white throne, for deeds committed before Christ' second coming to reign for 1000 years, and also those that Satan gathers after his release. Nothing about the righteous. There is nothing written in scripture that speaks of another resurrection for more righteous born after His second coming or during the millennium. The great white throne is set up after God sends fire upon Satan's camp and destroys them. Only the unrighteous are resurrected and then judged there, not the righteous (Rev. 20:7-15). Nothing there about those born during the millennium. If you have some biblical evidence or scriptures that disprove this, I'd like to see it. rollinThunder Rev 20::7-10 - When the 1000 years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of Gods people, the city He loves. ut fire came down from heaven and devoured them. Isa. 11:8 - The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the vipors nest. Matt 24:19 - How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers. Not all who are ushered into the 1000 year reign of Christ have been part of the First Resurrection. Babies will be born, the earth will increase in numbers. In Christ Montana Marv The Bride of Christ or Church are the Firstfruits of the First REsurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 10, 2013 rollinThunder There are only two fates: Newly transformed bodies for an Eternity with Christ. or Newly transformed bodies for an Eternity without Christ. In Christ Montana Marv There are only two resurrections. In the first resurrection, the righteous are raised up to reign with Christ for 1000 years. In the second resurrection, the unrighteous will be resurrected and stand before the great white throne, for deeds committed before Christ' second coming to reign for 1000 years, and also those that Satan gathers after his release. Nothing about the righteous. There is nothing written in scripture that speaks of another resurrection for more righteous born after His second coming or during the millennium. The great white throne is set up after God sends fire upon Satan's camp and destroys them. Only the unrighteous are resurrected and then judged there, not the righteous (Rev. 20:7-15). Nothing there about those born during the millennium. If you have some biblical evidence or scriptures that disprove this, I'd like to see it. rollinThunder Rev 20::7-10 - When the 1000 years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of Gods people, the city He loves. ut fire came down from heaven and devoured them. Isa. 11:8 - The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the vipors nest. Matt 24:19 - How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers. Not all who are ushered into the 1000 year reign of Christ have been part of the First Resurrection. Babies will be born, the earth will increase in numbers. Hi Marv, I agree. None of those who enter into the millennium in their flesh will be part of the first resurrection, only the saints that return with Christ in resurrected bodies. This includes the dead in Christ, living believers that are ready when He appears, and the martyr's that refuse the mark of the beast. But when I say dead in Christ, that also includes the Old Testament saints and the prophets as well. We gentiles are grafted in. The Bride of Christ or Church are the Firstfruits of the First REsurrection. Firstfruits is a term used for a harvest. This is very important! There are three parts to a biblical harvest, (1) firstfruits; (2) main harvest; and (3) gleaning/corners. >The firstfruits are the heads of wheat that mature and pop up before the rest of the wheat (ready). The high priest would gather them and offer them to the Lord as a wave offering. >Then when it was time, they would send in the crews to reap the harvest (martyrs), but they did not take everything (Lev. 23:22). >They would leave some wheat for gleaning and also leave the corners. These left-overs were for the poor and the strangers. So to say the church is raptured really doesn't fit very well at all with the biblical harvest, especially when we know that martyrs will join them a little bit later. But this is only two of the three parts. These two parts are the saints that will be returning with Christ. Precious stones, gold & silver both shine, so these represent a glorified body. However, there is still another third part. The third part isn't mentioned in the parables until the very end. These are the sheep that will be separated from the goats at the end of the age. Their works (wood, hay & stubble) are burned up, and they will enter into the millennium in their flesh after the goats are thrown into the fire. I believe these are the strangers (gentile nations) and the remnant of Israel represents the poor in spirit, as both will re-populate the earth in the millennium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted April 10, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 10, 2013 rollinTHUNDER I realize you have a different view on the rapture , so instead of speaking directly to that as even post trib camp realizes that the rapture happens before the millennium.begins , so in place of speaking of the rapture How would you answer these questions? Do you believe that 100% of every flesh & blood people of all nations during the 1000 years are deceived by satan when he is released from his prison? Hi Daniel, I believe we can only assume or guess the answers to these questions. But I'd say no, probably some of the offspring of those who enter the millennium in their flesh will be deceived. Or do you believe that there are some flesh & blood people living during the 1000 years that satan was not able to deceive and accepted the gift of salvation of Christ ? I believe that many of the people that remember their lives under the prince of darkness will love the changes that Christ will make in this world. If they accepted the gift of salvation of Christ just as we have today do you believe that God would or would not give them glorified immortal bodies that he gives all the rest that have ? Scripture does tell that we will not all die , but we will all be changed and given immortal glorified bodies The millennium will be a new dispensation. We will no longer be doing things that were done in the previous dispensation. Just like those in the age of grace were no longer bound by the things that were required under the mosaic law. But then the age of grace will be old news. In the age of grace, we are saved from the coming wrath, but this will be a thing of the past in the new millennium. What would they be saved from? God will raise up both old and new testament saints to reign with Him in the millennium. They were righteous because of their faith. Those who enter the millennium in their flesh will not be living by faith, because the Messiah will already be in their midst and leading them. I believe it will be more like Christ returning to restore His creation back to the way it was before Satan messed it up in the garden of Eden. He would have already saved His people. Do you believe that God will give them the same gifts that he gives all the rest of his children? I believe His children will be the saints that return with Him to rule and reign. Those in the flesh will repopulate the earth. Do you believe the scripture applies to all people whom the LORD created? since the LORD created 100% of all people including those born during the 1000 years would the same not apply to them as well? No, I believe the millennium will introduce a new dispensation and we will know more when that time comes. What a beautiful world it will be again! or maybe these questions are you not understanding ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back2thebible Posted April 11, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 538 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/14/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2013 Hello brothers and sisters, Since the forums got a little jumbled, I decided to go ahead and start a few new threads. This thread is the defense of the mid-trib rapture theological position. Why do you believe in a mid trib rapture? Your brother in Christ with much agape love, George I believe the rapture can happen after the first few martyrs refuse the mark of the beast, since they are shown clearly as being among the FIRST RESURRECTION..............since Paul says we will not procede the dead in Christ.........they must be resurrected First Curious , Just exactly by definition , what do you think a rapture is and why is one used? set aside any timing of 'when' it should happen and focus on precisely what it is and what its purpose is . Since there are already untold millions of people who are already dead in Christ ,,there is no requirement for the people who refuse the mark of the beast to take place before the rapture can happen as there is no scripture that states the mark of the beast has to be implemented before the rapture can happen, as Paul has only stated that before Jesus returns to earth the son of perdition must be revealed. Getting back to the 'why' the rapture happens, how do you define what a rapture is ? Why is there such an event , what purpose do you believe it is for? scripture is clear that when it happens believer go UP into the clouds to meet Jesus in the air and NO people see it happen At Jesus 2nd coming he seen by many people coming to earth Daniel you don't seem to grasp two critical points......1. there are only two resurrections and 2. the dead in Christ are resurrected in the FIRST resurrection, before those who are alive are gathered up to meet the Lord in the air. since we see who is apart of first resurrection, we know that it can't happen until they get among the dead in Christ since the dead in Christ are raised first, we can conclude the (our being gathered to the Lord) does not happen until the dead in Christ .............are DEAD! this sequence of events is clearly given by Jesus Himself in Mathew 24..........I kinda lean towards His clear and plainly written teaching rather than some false teachers secret escape that one can receive through some of the most vague, and obscure verses, reading into place by silence and complete disregard of context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted April 11, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2013 back2thebible There is a difference between the Elect They include: OT Saints. NT Saints, (the Bride of Christ/Church) First group to be of the First Resurrection Reigns with Christ 1000 years Tribulation Saints - Second group to be of the First Resurrection Reigns with Christ 1000 years. 144,000 Elect from Israel Elect from the Mill Elect angels are elect, Not of the First or Second Resurrection But fallen angels become part of the Second Resurrections final dwelling place (Lake of Fire). In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted April 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2013 NT Saints, (the Bride of Christ/Church) First group to be of the First Resurrection Reigns with Christ 1000 years Hi Marv, This is the second time that I recall you saying this. I'm trying to catch your understanding, but not sure what you're trying to convey here. It appears that you believe New Testament believers will go to the front of the line in the resurrection/rapture? Is that a correct way of understanding your view? If so, why do you believe this? If not, can you please explain your view of this? Elect from the Mill Could you please clarify what you mean by this as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted April 12, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2013 NT Saints, (the Bride of Christ/Church) First group to be of the First Resurrection Reigns with Christ 1000 years Hi Marv, This is the second time that I recall you saying this. I'm trying to catch your understanding, but not sure what you're trying to convey here. It appears that you believe New Testament believers will go to the front of the line in the resurrection/rapture? Is that a correct way of understanding your view? If so, why do you believe this? If not, can you please explain your view of this? Elect from the Mill Could you please clarify what you mean by this as well? rollinThunder First of all "Elect" are those chosen and Justified by God; We did not chose God, He Chose Us. (this opens a can of worms for those opposed to OSAS) He knew us before we were conceived. What separates us from all others (Past, Present and Future)? We are the only ones/group of all the "Elect" which was given the "Comfortor/Holy Spirit" to indwell us. No other group can claim this. Christ is in us, and we are in Christ. Lets look at 1 Thes 4:15,16 - According to the Lords own word, "we" tell you that "we" who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not preceed those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ (Christ is in us, and we are in Christ) will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will be with the Lord forever.. 2 Cor 5:17 - Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, the old has gone, the new has come. v 20 - We are therefore Christs ambassadors, John 14:2 - In my Fathers house are many rooms, if it were not so I would have told you, I am going there to prepare a place for you, and if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me, that you may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going. Who is the "you" being referred to.? Where is the "you" being brought to? The gospels, the whole NT is written for Christians/Bride of Christ. It is 'OUR" operators manuel. Who are the dead in Christ? Who are those still alive (in Christ)? Where is Christ now at this time? At the right hand of God. Where are those souls of the beheaded saints at, when in heaven? Beneath the altar asking for vengence. What was Stephens (the first martyr) response when he was being stoned? Forgive them for they do not know.... What is the Brides response to times of trouble - Forgive Now the elect from the 1000 years. It is my belief that the population of the earth will grow during this time, like the sand on the seashore. Infants are mentioned as well as children. The elect of God are those who do not follow Satan at the end of the 1000 years. With this in mind, when will these receive their glorified bodies. For that is what being of the First Resurrection is; to receive there glorified body, being changed, being Christ like. Many follow Satan, many do not. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back2thebible Posted April 14, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 538 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/14/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 14, 2013 What separates us from all others (Past, Present and Future)? We are the only ones/group of all the "Elect" which was given the "Comfortor/Holy Spirit" to indwell us. No other group can claim this. Christ is in us, and we are in Christ. Now the elect from the 1000 years. It is my belief that the population of the earth will grow during this time, like the sand on the seashore. Infants are mentioned as well as children. The elect of God are those who do not follow Satan at the end of the 1000 years. With this in mind, when will these receive their glorified bodies. For that is what being of the First Resurrection is; to receive there glorified body, being changed, being Christ like. Many follow Satan, many do not. In Christ Montana Marv A good way to state it The First resurrection is not simply a chronological event but a Category as well The First resurrection is for all people who will receive a glorified immortal incorruptible body and live eternally with Christ regardless of when they lived The Second resurrection is for all the unrepentant unrighteous people who rejected Christ regardless of when they lived Those who gave their heart to Christ and serve Him during the 1000 year Mil whether they died during the Mil or lived till the end of it will still receive a glorified incorruptible body to live eternally with Christ, ...since there is no category of a third resurrection , they are considered part of the category of the First resurrection as the First resurrection is being part of Christs eternal family what?............thats not what my bible teaches, the second resurrection says that they will be judged by their works, since there was no law for humanity outside of the small Hebrew clan, all the rest of humanity from the days of Adam up until Christ, will be judged by their works................clearly some will find their names in the book of life, otherwise it would not be mentioned and it would simply declare they were all tossed into hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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