Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[Guest zhavoney]

xyz

[JesusisGod2]

Hi Zhav,

No one is saying that the church isnt going through the tribulation as this post indicates this is in defence of the post tribulation rapture.

But we will not go through Gods wrath which will be poured out at Armeggedon and as I already showed you we are coming back with Him at this point.

Lets stick to the facts that have already been posted, and not lead this into some endless debate. Trying to show something that is not there

I believe in post tribulation/pre-wrath rapture as youcan see by the following verses which I will post again in case you have not read them, it shows that we are coming back with Him at Armeggedon.

Here goes:

Revelation 19

6  Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.

Now this great multitude is the saints and the angels.

Marriage of the Lamb

7  "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."

Now the church is the bride, notice it says the marriage of the lamb has come, not will come it speaking of present tense here.

8  It was given to her

to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

Now again pay special attention to those who are dressed in fine linen, bright and clean--it is referance to the bride of the Lamb--us, the church.

9  Then he said to me, "Write, ' Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he said to me, "These are true words of God."

10  Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who  hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Praise the Lord!

Now lets look at the return of Christ refered to here and also take special note on who is with Him at His return also called the second coming.

The Coming of Christ--Revelation 19

11  And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.

Notice that Christ, the One on the white horse is still in heaven at this point.

12  His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.

13  He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

This leaves no doubt to who this is, and again He is still in heaven at this point.

14  And the armies which are in heaven, 

clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.

Now notice here it speaks of an army, which are also in heaven now notice it makes a referance to who this army is:

"clothed in fine linen, white and clean" now it has already been established who those are who are dressed in fine linen, white and clean in verse 8, and that is the bride-the church, and they are in heaven not on the earth but they are returning with Christ.

15  From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

This is the war at armeggedon, when Christ pours out His wrath on the nations and we are coming with Him not Him coming for us, we are already with Him here.

16  And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

Hopes this helps in your understanding.

In Jesus,

Kevin

[Guest zhavoney]

xyz

[JesusisGod2]

Hello Zhav,

I must admit that I am confused by this verse which correlates with Revelation 20 and refers to the first ressurection, so lets take a look at it:

1Thess 4:14-18

14

[jmwhalen]

Many people, but especially Christian people, are convinced that Christ will come back "very soon" and the last days of Scripture will be fulfilled thus signifying the end of the world. Many such end-time predictions have been made in the past, but it is quite obvious that they were entirely incorrect. However, the inaccuracy of past predictions does not automatically disqualify those pertaining to the year 2004. The question still must be asked: why is there so much confusion over the issues surrounding the last days, and the fulfillment of prophecy? Almost every end time prediction has in one form or another utilized Scripture to forecast the precise time when the Tribulation would be, signifying the world

[JesusisGod2]

Hi John,

I am not sure exactly what you are driving at or why you have posted this in this particular thread, but after all that, what this author has said, it boils down to this that the "mystery" Paul speaks of is this:

Paul defines the mystery in Ephesians 3:3-6. The Apostle says,

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

[jmwhalen]

JesusisGod2:

WHEN WAS THE MYSTERY REVEALED?

Another teaching which becomes apparent from Colossians is that Paul's ministry centered around proclaiming the mystery. Indeed, he contrasts his present commission to proclaim the mystery with the fact that the mystery had been hidden in other ages:

"Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations: but has now been manifested to His

saints," (Col. 1:25-26)

In other words, Paul asserts that it is with his ministry that God first revealed the mystery. Until Paul, the mystery was a divine secret, locked up in the mind of God.

This teaching is also echoed in Ephesians. Paul writes:

"...if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. And by referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;" (Eph. 3:2-5).

Here again, Paul contrasts God's revelation of the mystery to him with the fact that it had been hidden from those of other ages.

While he admits that God is now revealing it to other apostles and prophets, it is significant that Paul is the only writer of Scripture who writes about "the mystery", "the body of Christ" or our glorious heavenly position. He is also the only writer of Scripture who makes a point of telling us that God revealed to him a truth which He never revealed to those in other ages. It is safe to conclude that Paul was the first one to whom God revealed the mystery, and the only writer of Scripture inspired to write about the mystery.

_____________________________

What is the Mystery?

Is it a secret? Something that we can

[Guest zhavoney]

xyz

[Guest zhavoney]

xyz

[jmwhalen]

Zhavoney-you write:"In your last paragraph which Hell are you refering to. sheol, hades, tarturus, or gienah.? If they are spelled wrong, Please forgive."

I am referring to hell as stated in the King James Bible. No need to "go to the Greek", or to "the original manuscripts", since they do not exist.

You write:

"I would really like to read your writen responce to my post titled END TIME PROPHECY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK "

Where is it at?

Question: Since Paul wanted you to see the mystery(Eph. 3:9), do you understand it? And do you understand that this mystery was "hid in God"(Eph. 3:9-not hid in the scriptures), "kept secret since the world began"(Romans 16:25), and was "hid from ages and generations"(Col. 1:26), and was "unsearcheable"(Eph. 3:8=past finding out, undetectable, untraceable=do not waste your time trying to find OT references poiting to this present "dispensation of the grace of God", there are no references pointing to this present dispensation within the pages of the four gospels). Consequently, forget about looking for the rapture in the OT-it was a mystery revealed to Paul.

You may laugh at what I have written, but my aim is to be "approved unto God"(2 Tim. 2:15), not men("men pleasers"), and, as you well know, you and I must both appear before the judgement seat of Christ. I have fulfilled my obligation to show you the difference between the prophetic program and the mystery program. Let it never be said that you were not shown it. One more time!:

WHY PAUL?

The difference between

Prophecy and Mystery-Dennis Kiszonas

I was saved out of Roman Catholicism when I was 19 years old. I began to look for a church where I could learn the word of God and grow as a Christian. I visited about a dozen protestant churches in my neighborhood in Chicago. As a former Roman Catholic, I was amazed to see how different each of these churches were.

In one church, I was singing a hymn one Sunday morning in my seat in the pew, when the woman next to me suddenly turned to her husband beside her, practically threw her little baby into his arms and screamed a blood-curdling scream. People in the church began to speak in strange words, dance in the aisles, fall down, "slain in the Spirit."

The church on the next corner said, "That's not for us today, we don't believe in tongues or being slain in the Spirit."

They each had their verses in the Bible to prove that they were right and the other was wrong. I was a new Christian and didn't know what to believe.

Of course, that wasn't the only disagreement among the churches. Some believed that you could never lose your salvation, others said that you could. Some said that water baptism was for infants, others for adults -- believers only. Some said that water baptism saved you, others that it was a testimony. Some said that if you were sick it was because you didn't have enough faith; whatever you asked in faith, you would receive. They could prove that from the Bible. However, the church on the next corner could show verses where Paul himself prayed, even pleaded with the Lord three times for something, and he didn't get it.

Muhammed spoke with the Christians of his day and concluded that the Bible must be corrupt; that's why there's so much disagreement, and that's why Christians don't agree with each other. He then wrote his own Bible. Joseph Smith did the same thing.

Where is that "full assurance of understanding" that Paul wrote about, that would "knit us together in love" and not leave us torn to shreds in thousands of different denominations? Where is that "full assurance of understanding" that would encourage our hearts and not leave us troubled over the fracturing of the body of Christ and the difficulty of really understanding the Bible?

WHY?

It's no secret that the Church, the Body of Christ, is anything but united. If you don't believe that, just look at the number and variety of services listed in Religion section of your local newspaper, or in the Yellow Pages under "Churches."

Obvious, too, is the fact that the unity so fervently sought after today is often mere union which, distressingly, many Christians are willing to extend beyond the limits of the professing Church. Such thinking naturally demands a dismissal of the need for a sound doctrinal foundation.

Take for example the pro-America, pro-conservative, pro-"family values" movement advanced in recent years by some well-known evangelicals in cooperation with various Roman Catholics. To the Bible student, that such an ecumenical union could even exist should be unthinkable. Yet here it is.

However noble the stated goals, the basic idea behind the ecumenical movement seems (in the most technical sense of the word) stupid when one stops to consider the fact that Catholics and evangelicals contradict each other on the all-important issue of what Christ did, why He did it, and how God intends man to benefit from it. In fact, there was a time when Rome tortured, strangled, and burned evangelicals over this very issue. Neither Chuck Colson nor Pat Robertson seem concerned with the circumstances surrounding the often charred and bloody deaths of previous members of their own Church. Looking at these men, one might think Foxe's Book of Martyrs is out of print.

No matter how one looks at it, this ecumenical "unity" is anything but real, godly unity because it is based on everything EXCEPT sound biblical doctrine. This is why we can be assured that it not true unity as the Bible defines it (Ephesians 4). It is, rather, an "unequal yoke" between inexcusably undiscerning believers and sincere, religious unbelievers. It cannot be of God.

Then there is the charismatic movement. The proponents of this movement seek unity, but all too often it is admitted that the unity they seek is at the expense of sound doctrine. Rather, charismatics seek a unity that is built upon the foundation of alleged "signs and wonders." The end result: if a person can speak in what is called "tongues," he or she is in regardless of their understanding of the gospel. Anyone who cannot or does not speak in tongues is out. For this reason, the charismatic movement has been able to serve as a sort of spiritual glue; it has joined together individuals from camps which not only had been distinctly separate from one another (Southern Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Roman Catholics, etc) but were often unfriendly if not openly hostile toward one another. But no longer. Now they are one through the alleged modern-day miracles of the Holy Spirit.

Buy if one remembers that miraculous signs, including tongues, were a SIGN from God for unbelieving Israel (1 Cor 14:20-22), we can know that God has nothing to do with the modern charismatic movement, even if thousands of sincere but deceived Christians are caught up in it.

So what is the problem here?

Let's pause for a moment to take a reality check. Given the fact that God cannot lie, cannot contradict Himself, nor ever go back on His eternally established Word, we know He is not the author of this confusion within the Body (1 Cor 14:33). Furthermore, if God is totally reliable, then it follows that His Word must be totally reliable as well. That means these problems cannot be traced to Him; none of this is His fault.

So where do these and other problems come from, if not from God nor His Word? A tough question on the surface, especially since this confusion, as Dennis Kiszonas was distressed to learn, seems to arise directly from God's Word! After all, each and every denomination has its own set of Bible verses with which it seeks to prove that its doctrinal statement is correct, and that all who disagree with them are incorrect. MOST OF THEM USE THE SAME VERSES TO DO THIS!

So what's the answer?

How can we have had all these centuries of confusion, contention, and division, with the Bible as the apparent source of it all, when it is not possible for the Bible in itself to be the root of the problem?

Consider this...is it possible that there is a basic cause for much (if not most) of the doctrinal confusion and disagreement in the Church historically, as well as that found among Christians today?

We believe that this is exactly the case, and we will attempt to prove it from Scripture.

THE ROOT CAUSE OF IT ALL

Again, the problem is absolutely NOT with the Bible itself--never has been, never will be. We believe, rather, that the problem is with various man-made traditions which have blinded generations of believers to the point that the Scripture--while cherished, defended and studied--is almost invariably read incorrectly, thus causing much of the confusion which surrounds us even now.

The purpose of this paper is to show that the vast majority of Christians have long failed to recognize THE MOST fundamental and vital division in the Bible. This division is not the difference between Old Testament and New. It is not the difference between Law and Grace. Nor is this division an artificial, contrived one, pieced together by men to shore up a particular doctrianal point of view. No, the fundamental dividing line of Scripture is the distinction between PROPHECY and MYSTERY.

Prophecy is everything that pertains to what God revealed and made known through prophets concerning His specially chosen nation, Israel, and the details regarding the coming Messiah and His earthly Kingdom, by which the nations of the earth are promised to be blessed. The dealings of God according to prophecy is the focus of the Old Testament, as well as of the four Gospel records and part of the book of Acts.

Mystery, on the other hand, has to do generally with everything that God kept secret since the beginning of time (1 Cor. 2:7), but chose to reveal through one man -- the apostle Paul. Mystery pertains, in part, to the origin, purpose and destiny of the Church, the spiritual Body of Christ, comprised of Jews and Gentiles alike without any distinction between them. As its name implies, the mystery cannot be found in Scripture prior of the salvation of Saul.

The fundamental problem, as we see it, is that the Church, from a very early age and as a whole, has failed to recognize the vital prophecy/mystery division as a division because it first failed to acknowledge the unique and unprecedented ministry Christ gave to Paul. Historical evidence supporting our contention can be found in the writings of various early Church figures, whose doctrines revealed the beginning of a great apostasy barely 100 years after Paul's death, an apostasy that can still be found lingering within the modern Church.

Where specifically did the Church fail? For one thing, she failed to follow Paul's inspired command to rightly divide the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15), a practice which is essential to a sound understanding, proper handling, and correct application of the God-given truths of the entire Word of God. Denominations, sects, and the many "Christian" cults which have arisen in the name of Christ have all, to one degree or another, resulted from an ignorance of, a dismissal of, or a flat refusal to see the unique salvation, walk, ministry, doctrine, and hope of Paul, God's chosen "apostle to the Gentiles."

12 APOSTLES OF PROPHECY,

ONE APOSTLE OF MYSTERY

You may be saying, and SHOULD say, "Prove it! Paul was an apostle, but so was Peter, James, and John. Where do you get off saying Paul was so drastically different from them, and in so many ways?"

Our answer is, yes, Paul was an apostle, but that's pretty much where the similarities end. Scripture tells us very clearly that Paul was not "just another apostle," and Paul himself knew it. He was NOT one of the 12. Paul's calling was NOT like that of the 12. Paul's commission was NOT the same as that given to the 12. Paul's message was NOT the same as that which had been proclaimed by the 12.

However, a close Christian friend once told me that the mystery was an 'open secret' before the salvation of Paul, one which wasn't really a secret at all since it was known by Peter and the others, and so I placed FAR too much emphasis on Paul. Is this correct? Not according to the Word. Another brother in Christ said that there are not two gospels in the New Testament, but only one, and that no dispensational change took place between the Lord's earthly ministry and His ministry from Heaven through Paul. Is he correct? Is "the present the key to the past" here? Again, not according to the Word. These friends and brothers--whom I love dearly--are perfect (?) case studies of just how thoroughly a sincere, intelligent man of God can be BLINDED by denominational tradition.

First, the mystery was not known before Paul, for two reasons: (1) Paul said so, and (2) the Greek word translated mystery means "a previously unrevealed secret which is now made known" In other words, a "mystery" as Paul used the word means a secret that is no longer a secret.

Nor is there only one Gospel ["good news"] in the New Testament. There are two. First came the Good News of the earthly Kingdom [part of prophecy], and then the Good News of the Grace of God [part of mystery]. These are not the same messages, as we'll see.

And there most definitely was a dispensational change during the mid-Acts period, for Paul himself says that the dispensation of the mystery had been committed... not to Peter, not to James, not to John...but to Paul DIRECTLY FROM THE RISEN, ASCENDED, GLORIFIED LORD JESUS. More on this later.

These undeniable facts lie at the very core of the prophecy/mystery division, even if traditional Christian teaching has long said otherwise. Yet Christians MUST recognize, accept, and live in the light of these truths if they hope to be approved to God, workers who need not be ashamed (2 Tim 2:15).

We now offer three reasons why Paul's ministry was something completely new and different from that which came before:

(1) Paul's message varied greatly from the message preached by the 12 (as we will see). Certain things which had been in force during the preaching of what is commonly called "the great commission" by the 12 were gradually placed on hold by God as He began to reveal new and previously unknown things to and through Paul.

(2) Paul's audience -- those whom God intended to receive and benefit from Paul's unique message -- was a totally different audience from that of the 12 (Gal 2:7-9).

(3) If Paul's message is identical to the message preached by the 12--or is simply an addition to it--then Paul's emphasis on what he called "my gospel" (Rom 16:25; 2 Tim 2:8) and "my office" (Rom 11:13), as well as his repeated mention of God's revelation to him alone of "the mystery" is at the very least confusing and misleading, if not completely meaningless (Eph 1:9; 3:9; 6:19; Col 4:3). In other words, if Paul preached exactly what the 12 preached, and if his God-given purpose was the same as that of the 12, then Paul's message wouldn't really be "his" gospel, nor would it be a previously unrevealed secret. In short, it would hardly have deserved the emphasis Paul, by inspiration of God the Holy Spirit, repeatedly gave it.

THE RESULT OF NOT SEEING THE PROPHECY/MYSTERY DIVISION

Proof that the Prophecy/Mystery distinction is real rests in the fact that many doctrinal disputes within the Body of Christ simply disappear when one realizes TO WHOM specific portions of Scripture are written, WHEN they were written, and WHY they were written. But the overall failure of the Church to recognize this has invariably lead sincere believers to force the holy Word of God to fit any number of preconceptions, misconceptions, assumptions, presumptions, preferences and pet doctrines, instead of letting God's Word speak as it will, thereby establishing our doctrines for us.

An example from our own day: Because the Bible tells us that God relates to man in a certain way today, many Christians assume He has always related to man in that same way. Thus you can find churches which teach that salvation has always been offered on the basis in grace through faith in the shed blood of Christ for one's sin. But does the Bible teach this? No.

Likewise, many Christians assume that because God used certain people in certain ways at certain times in the past, they presume God will do, and is doing, those same things with believers today. And so you have the modern Charismatic movement and its relentless pursuit of the miraculous powers given during the Acts period, even though the Word says God gave miraculous sign gifts specifically as a sign to rebellious Israel, but that they ceased shortly after she was set aside in hardness and blindness (Romans ch. 9-11).

Obviously, both of these widely-held assumptions are untrue. That is not to say that there are no doctrines today which cannot have applied to the faithful of past eras. And certainly there are things which applied to saints in the past which go for believers today. Still, failure to "rightly divide" and thus recognize "things that differ" is foundational to many of the erroneous doctrines and practices found in the Church today.

EXACTLY HOW WAS PAUL'S MINISTRY UNIQUE?

If the ministry given by Christ to Paul is very different from that which He gave to Peter, James, John and the others, then the significance of this fact must be recognized for a proper understanding of God's Word and will. And now, using a simple line-by-line format, we will show you how Paul's ministry was different. In writing this paper, we gladly subject ourselves to the clear tests of Scripture. So as you read, we urge you: TEST OUR CLAIMS AS YOU WOULD ANYTHING ELSE (1 Thess 5:21)... SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES TO SEE IF THESE THINGS ARE SO (Acts 17:11)!

The 12: Jews who were subjects of Rome.

Paul: A Jew who also was a citizen of Rome (the significance of this will be seen later).

The 12: Represented Israel, God's specially chosen people whom God made preeminent over all nations of the earth (12 men/12 thrones/12 tribes):

And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit upon His glorious throne, YOU ALSO shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matthew 18:28).

Paul: Represented the Church, the Body of Christ. As both Jew and Gentile, Paul was a living symbol of God's new work--two peoples previously kept separate, but now ONE by grace through faith in Christ:

But now in Christ Jesus YOU [Gentiles] who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is OUR peace, who made both groups into ONE, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity...THAT IN HIMSELF HE MIGHT MAKE THE TWO INTO ONE NEW MAN, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both IN ONE BODY to God through the cross. . . for through Him WE BOTH have OUR access in one Spirit to the Father (Ephesians 2:11-18).

The 12: Chosen (Luke 6:13) and commissioned (Matt 28:18-20) by Christ during His earthly ministry. Were to follow His pattern and teach His earthly teachings (Matt 28:20).

Paul: Chosen, taught, and commissioned by the ascended, glorified Christ (Acts 9:3:5; 1 Cor 15:8). Was not to follow the pattern of the 12, but was to teach something which the Lord gave to Paul alone: the dispensation of the grace of God (see Rom 16:25 cf Luke 1:68-71; 1 Cor 9:17; Eph 3:2; Col 1:25).

The 12: Proclaimed the long-awaited Kingdom was at hand (Matt 10:6), and with it times of refreshing and restoration of all things (Acts 3:19-21). All this God had revealed though various Old Testament prophets since the world began.

Paul: Proclaimed the Mystery of the Body -- the Church -- which God had kept secret since the world began (see Rom 16:25; 1 Cor 2:7; Eph 1:4-11; 1:19-23; 3:5-9; Col 1:18).

The 12: As John the Baptist and Jesus did, the 12 preached the Kingdom--an earthly, physical, theocratic government centered in a restored Jerusalem -- over which Christ the Messiah would reign as the undisputed, invincible King of all the earth:

At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord (Jer. 3:17).

Out of Zion shall go forth the Law, and the Word of the Lord from Jerusalem (Isa. 2:3).

Yea, all kings shall fall down before Him: all nations shall serve Him (Psalm 72:11).

The Lord shall be King over all the earth (Zech. 14:9).

Paul: Preached the Body--a living, heavenly, spiritual organism--of which Christ is the Head. (see Eph 2:22; 4:15-16; 5:23).

Note: Paul did preach the Kingdom of God (Acts 28:31). Yet Paul never offered the earthly, physical, prophesied Messianic Kingdom to Israel, nor did he preach it to the Gentiles (outside of Israel, the concept would have been largely meaningless to non-Jews). Likewise, the concept of the Body of Christ--Jews and Gentiles standing before God on the equal footing of faith--is found nowhere in the Gospels nor in the early ministry of the 12. Why? Because God had not yet revealed it. We may therefore conclude that unlike the preaching of Jesus and the 12, Paul's preaching of "the Kingdom of God" was in the broad, general sense of the whole of Christ's authority and rule over heaven and earth, and all that is in them.

The 12: Taught by Christ that they were still under the Law (Matt 5:18; 6:14-15; 19:35). They were to follow the instructions of the Pharisees (Matt 23:2-3) [insofar as the Pharisees' instruction was in line with the Scripture]. Even years later, during the Acts period, some Jewish Christians observed certain aspects of the Law (Acts 21:15-26).

Paul: Taught that those "in Christ" are dead to the Law (Rom 3:22-23; 4:5; 8:1; Titus 3:5). Paul condemned the Judaizers (Gal 1) for attempting to imposing elements of the Law onto Gentile believers. Even the 12 agreed that Gentile believers were not to observe the Law (Acts 15:22-29).

The 12: Sent by Christ to Israel first (Matt 10:5-6), then to Gentiles through redeemed Israel (Luke 24:47-48) in what has come to be called the "Great Commission" [which,incidentally, the Church cannot carry out; Israel must first repent before her Messiah]. No Gentiles mentioned in Acts until chapter 10, after the conversion of Saul.

Note: Zola Levitt observes, "Peter actually ran into some difficulty with the church fathers back in Jerusalem when he returned from his mission to the household of Cornelius: 'They that were of the circumcision contended with him, saying, You went to uncircumcised men, and you ate with them' (Acts 11:3)." We ask, why was Peter 'called on the carpet' if the so-called "great commission" was, at that time, directed to all men equally and without distinction?

Paul: Sent by Christ to preach to all men everywhere the free grace of God (Rom 5:20; Eph 2:8), as God gradually set unrepentant Israel aside (Rom 10:12; 11:25-32).

The 12: Preached "the gospel for the circumcised" --the Jew. Agreed to limit their ministry to Israel (see passage below).

Paul: Preached "the gospel for the uncircumcised," the Gentile, and was recognized by the 12 as Christ's apostle to the Gentiles:

"But...when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to ME, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter...they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, THAT WE SHOULD GO TO THE GENTILES and THEY TO THE CIRCUMCISED." (Galatians 2:7-9).

The 12: Followed the pattern of salvation for Gentiles through God's use of a redeemed Israel, conditional upon Israel's repentence of her King's murder (Acts 3:12-26). Only then could she be a blessing to the Gentile world:

And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing ... In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you. (Zech. 8:13, 23)

Paul: Preached salvation for Jew and Gentile alike by grace through faith, the result of Israel's refusal to repent of Christ's murder (Rom 11:7-36).

The 12: Were the main figures in 1st half of Acts (when the Kingdom offer was still open), centering largely on Israel as a nation.

Paul: Main figure in 2nd half of Acts (as the Kingdom offer gradually closed). Paul wrote letters during this time (Galatians, Romans, 1&2 Corinthians) which centered not on Israel or the coming Kingdom, but on individuals and the Body of Christ.

Note: Paul did teach things regarding the purpose and state and future of Israel, but it was never his commission to help usher in Israel's Messianic Kingdom. On the contrary - it is only because of Christ's revelation to Paul that we know why the Kingdom has NOT been delivered, and that in the meantime God deals with Jews and Gentiles alike on an equal basis of faith in Christ's finished work (read Romans, chapters 9-11).

The 12: Preached the death of Christ as bad news for Israel. Peter and Stephen, speaking by the Holy Spirit, indicted Israel for the murder of her King, commanding her to repent so that the long-awaited Kingdom age could begin:

Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God TO YOU by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, and YOU YOURSELVES did know--Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, YOU have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death ... Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom YOU crucified, both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:22-36).

But YOU denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, and killed the Prince of life...Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before (Acts 3:14-20).

We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom YOU murdered by hanging on a tree. Him God has exalted to His right hand, Prince and Savior, to give repentance TO ISRAEL and forgiveness of sin (Acts 5:29-31).

You stiff necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! YOU always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do YOU. Which of the prophets did they not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom YOU now have become the betrayers and murderers (Acts 7:51-52).

Paul: Preached the death of Christ as good news for individual Jews and Gentiles. Though she didn't know it, Israel's murder of her Messiah was the one and only sacrifice that can reconcile all people to God:

For as you [Gentiles] were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through [israel's] disobedience, even so [israel] also has now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! (Rom. 11:30-33)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God ... Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe (1 Cor. 1:18-21).

Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen (Gal. 1:3-5).

But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe (Gal. 3:22).

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in Whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins (Col. 1:13-14).

The 12: Sent by Christ specifically to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them... (Matt. 28:19).

Paul: For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel (1 Cor 1:17).

Note: There are recorded instances of Paul baptizing converts during his early ministry. But if water baptism was not part of Paul's job - and he states that it was not -why did he baptize anyone at all? For a possible answer, please read our article, "How Water Baptism Has Divided Christ."

The 12: Did not preach salvation by grace ALONE through faith ALONE until after raising of Paul. [Jesus commanded baptism as part of the "Great Commission," which was to institute the Messianic Kingdom. Under that program, believers had to be baptized, not as a mere public testimony of their newfound faith, but as a necessary ritual for forgiveness of sin and entrance into the Kingdom]:

He who believes AND is baptized will be saved... (Mark 16:16) [NOT, He who believes will be saved, whether he's baptized or not...]

...be baptized...FOR the remission of sins, AND you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit... (Acts 2:38)[NOT, ...be baptized...for your sins are already remitted, and you've already received the gift of the Holy Spirit...]

Arise and be baptized, AND wash away your sins... (Acts 22:16) [NOT, Arise and be baptized, because your sins are already washed away.]

Paul: Preached salvation by grace ALONE through faith ALONE, without works of ANY kind. Paul did teach "one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5) - not in water, but by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13).

The 12: Operated under Christ's promise that "those who believe" would have miraculous signs following them (snake-handling and poison-drinking, speaking languages they'd never studied, ability to heal the sick with a touch, and the ability to cast out demons, Mark 16:14-18)

Paul: Taught that the Holy Spirit gives supernatural gifts to all believers for the edification of the Church (1 Cor 12:7), but gave no indication that all believers should expect to display all of the supernatural signs Christ foretold in Mark 16 (see 1 Cor 12:4, 30). Not only this, but Paul evidently lost the miraculous powers he once had (2 Tim 4:20). The reason why: Miraculous signs were meant especially for Jews (1 Cor 1:22; 14:22). But when the Israel made her final rejection of Christ, God withdrew the sign gifts.

The 12: Taught about the Tribulation (the time of Jacob's [israel's] Trouble) which is preceded by many signs. Taught nothing on the Rapture of the Church.

Paul: Taught all of what we know about the imminent, unpredictable Rapture of the Church before the start of the Tribulation. Taught little if any on the Second Coming (because the Church, which is "not appointed to wrath," will not be here to see the Tribulation, and is foretold to come with Christ at His glorious Second Coming).

CONCLUSION

We could go into much more, but we hope what you've read so far sparks some new thoughts in your mind and excitement in your heart. As we saw at the beginning, the big question of all this is, "How should we read the Bible?" The answer is very simple. We should read it with the clear understanding that while all of Scripture is FOR us (for our understanding of God's "big picture," 2 Timothy 3:16), not all of Scripture is addressed TO us, nor is all of Scripture ABOUT us (2 Timothy 2:15).

Despite the accusations of some, Grace believers (or "Pauline dispensationalists" as we are technically known), do not use razor blades to cut out and dispose of portions of the Bible not written by Paul. ALL of the 66 books of the Bible have been given by God for our learning and edification, so all of it is meant to be studied and, if possible, applied in principle if not in specific detail. But because only particular portions of Scripture are written specifically to the Body, all other Scriptures must be balanced against what Christ spoke to us through Paul. Peter, James, John, and the others were not chosen by Christ to be apostles to the Gentiles. Only Paul was given that duty.

When God temporarily rolled up the building plans of prophecy and placed them aside, He made known a secret set of plans. With this program came a completely new set of blueprints. According to the counsel of His will, He had predetermined to call Paul as the master-builder of the project. So then, the instructions for our building program are found in Paul's epistles. Little wonder the apostles says: "I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed HOW he buildeth thereupon" (1 Cor. 3:10). It is essential to use Pauline construction materials (grace doctrines), simply because someday soon the Building Inspector will examine our workmanship to determine if we followed His codes.

--Paul Sadler (emphasis added)

As Gentile believers living in this age of Grace, our doctrines should be drawn primarily from the writings of the apostle to whom was given the dispensation of Grace. If we do this, we will honor our God, Creator, Savior, and Lord. We will come to know not only what His Word says, but WHY it says what it says, and how it all fits together. Only then will we have "the full assurance of understanding."

____________________________________

Preaching of Jesus Christ According to the Revelation Of the Mystery

The Mystery, as written by Paul in his thirteen epistles which bear his name, refers to God giving all things new for the present dispensation of which the Lord has commissioned and is operating today. It would behoove believers to know with all assurance of understanding these issues.

A NEW Agency called:

The Body of Christ-Romans 12:4-5, 1Corinthians 12:12, Ephesians 1:22-23

The Church-Ephesians 1:22-23

The One NEW Man - Ephesians 2:15

A NEW Dispensation-called:

The Dispensation of Grace-Ephesians 3:2

the Dispensation of God-Colossians 1:25

A NEW Gospel-called:

The Gospel of the Grace of God-Acts 20:24

The Gospel of the Uncircumcision-Galatians 2:7

Referred to by Paul as ("MY GOSPEL")-Romans 2:16,16:25; 2Timothy 2:8

This Gospel EMPHASIZES to the Gentiles the Grace of God by the Completed Cross work of Christ.

A NEW Position and Calling

In and to the heavenly Places-Ephesians 1:19-2:6 and 2 Corinthians 5:1 Philippians 3:20

A NEW Union with Christ

Identified in Christ's Death, Burial, Resurrection, and Ascension

He is the Head, we are the Body-Romans 6:1-8 and Ephesians 1:22-23, 4:4-5; Colossians 2:11- 13

A NEW Fellowship/Union with Body members:

To fellowship in the MYSTERY- Ephesians 3:9

Members in One Body in Christ-Romans 12:4-5; 1Corinthians 12:12-13

A NEW Operating Principle

The Free Gift of Grace:

Walking, being led by the Spirit of God, not under Law but under Grace-Romans 6:14, 8:14; 12:1, Colossians 2:6-7; Galatians 5:16-18

A NEW Inheritance

In the heavenlies:

A home for the One Body of Christ eternal in the Heavens occupying and operating the invisible seats of governmental authority-2Corinthians 5:1; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 1:12-16; 3:24

A NEW Comission

Our labor:

Being a faithful steward and ambassador-2 Corinthians 5:18-20; Ephesians 3:9 and 1Timothy 2:4

A NEW Revelation

Jesus Christ preached according to the doctrinal truths of this Mystery:

Recognizing that only Paul wrote of and taught others this New Revelation-Romans 16:25; 1Corinthians 2:7-13; 1Corinthians 9:17; Galatians 1:11,12; Ephesians 3:1-5; Philippians 4:9; Colossians 1:25,26

A NEW Apostle

Paul-chosen of the resurrected and fully glorified Lord Jesus Christ:

Seeing the unique and distinct office of apostleship that Paul,and Paul alone held-Romans 11:13; 15:15-18; Ephesians 3:1-2; Colossians 1;23e-25;1Timothy 2:6-7; 2Timothy 1:10,11

A NEW Purpose of God

A program of Gentile Grace as the fullness of the Gentiles be come in:

God's chosen nation, Israel, blinded for this season of Gentile Grace in which Israel is cast away after being diminished with her Prophetic program, commands, commission, and Law temporarily put out of commission and placed on hold- Romans 11:25; Ephesians 1:10; 3:9-12

When Jesus Christ is preached according to the revelation of the Mystery these NEW issues will be spoken with clarity using plainness of speech. The saints will recognize their position in Christ which brings all these NEW things into play affecting the personal life of the believer. In other words, when the preaching is doctrinally correct, the saints will be very familiar with the Sound Doctrines of Grace....they will be Grace Motivated....they will desire to fellowship in the Mystery!

In other words, WHEN the PREACHING is correct, the saints will be very familiar with the SOUND DOCTRINE of Grace.....they will be GRACE MOTIVATED.....they will fellowship in the MYSTERY!!

The LAW, The PSALMS and The PROPHETS...DO NOT CONTAIN THE PREACHING OF JESUS CHRIST ACCORDING TO THE MYSTERY...Neither do the FOUR GOSPELS. Not even the Book of Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, 1,2, and 3 John, Jude, or Revelation..... ONLY THE EPISTLES THAT BEAR THE NAME OF PAUL.

ONLY THE EPISTLES THAT BEAR THE NAME OF PAUL AS THE FIRST WORD IN THE SALUTATION CONTAIN THE PARTIAL KNOWLEDGE AND FULL-KNOWLEDGE OF ISSUES OF THIS HIDDEN WISDOM OF GOD CALLED THE MYSTERY!

IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE WHAT YOU BELIEVE!

___________________________________________________

Hidden vs. Spoken

An Impossibility

Peter states in Acts 3:21, "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." The verse's context deals with a body of material that has been, "...spoken...since the world began." Contrast Peter's statement with the one made by Paul, "...kept secret since the world began." Paul writes in Rom. 16:25, "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the msytery, which was kept secret since the world began." It is not possible to speak of something AND keep it secret at the same time. In Peter's message and Paul's message, the Scriptures have to be dealing with two different subjects. Peter's message is about a promised (prophesied) kingdom, which is the primary focus of his ministry in the early part of the book of Acts. He is telling the Jews, if they repent for the rejection of their Christ, he will return to set up his promised kingdom here on Earth. Paul's message, on the other hand, is about the Body of Christ, which has no past references in the prophetic record (it was a secret). Paul verifies this fact, stating he is chosen of God to reveal the "unsearchable riches of Christ." In Eph. 3:8-10, Paul writes, "Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God [kept a secret], who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God." To be unsearchable means that we cannot find these truths anywhere else in Scripture BECAUSE Paul tells us about them.

The Big Picture

God has always had a plan to bring the heavens as well as Earth back under His total control. When Satan sinned, he corrupted both the heavens and the earth. The kingdom program will bring the Earth back under God's subjection, while His program for the Body of Christ will do the same for the heavens. "Know ye not," begins in 1 Cor. 6:3, "that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" The word, "judge," means to rule over. In authority and rank, the Body of Christ will be above angels. This will take place at the end of the current dispensation, right after the rapture, which is when Christ gathers all saints home to fulfill their final purpose. Eph. 1:10 states, "That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"

Why All The Mystery?

The Body of Christ had to remain hidden -- stay a secret -- until after the cross, because Satan could not know about the results of the cross of Christ until his final fate was sealed, and then for him it woul be too late. Paul affirms this in 1 Cor. 3:2, "...none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." Known what? This is a direct reference to the mystery (Body of Christ) that Paul alone writes by inspiration (Romans - Philemon).

Not even the disciples, who walked with Christ after his ressurection, were made immediately aware of the unsearchable riches revealed to Paul. Peter and the others remained fixated upon, committed to, and ministers of Israel's prophetic kingdom. "When they therefore were come together," reads Acts 1:6, "they asked of him, saying, Lord, wil though at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" The kingdom will have a duration of 1000 years and Christ will physicially reign as king on David's throne. His twelve disciples will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The Future Kingdom

At that time, in order to have a part of Israel's blessing, all other nations will serve one nation, Israel. The blessings will come from God, through Christ and through Israel. This relationship between Gentiles and Jews is consistent with Isaiah 49:22-23, "Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring the sons in their arms, and they daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. And kings shall be they nursing fathers, and their queens they nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me." The promise has always been that God will "bless them" (Gentiles) that "bless thee" (Jews), and "curse them" (Gentiles) that "curse thee" (Jews). Writing about Israel's favored position Isaiah states (60:12), "For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yeah, those nations shall be utterly wasted." A little further, in Isaiah 61:5-6, the prophet continues, "And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. But ye shall be named of the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves."

It's Different Now

The Apostle Paul writes about a completely different existence for Jew and Gentile. He writes of an age of Grace, in which Jew and Gentile are the same. From Abraham's time until Paul in Acts 13, Jew and Gentile from were different. But then, through Paul, the ascended, glorified Christ, informed Jew and Gentile from Heaven that the wall of separation, the middle wall keeping the two apart, was gone. "But now in Jesus Christ," Eph. 2:13-14 states, "ye who sometimes were afar off [Gentiles] are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both [Jew and Gentile] one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us," The "Body of Christ" is only possible because Jew and Gentile are now the same. This "same" is all concluded in unbelief (Rom. 11:32), guilty before God, and in need of a Savior. Paul proclaims the wages of sin to be death (separation from God), but God's gift is eternal life through Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:23). How does one get this gift and get into this new Body that Paul speaks of? By faith -- in Christ's finished work, his death, burlal, and resurrection (1 Cor. 15:3, 4). Accepting what Christ has done, any unrighteous, undeserving sinner is imputed the righteousness of God:

"Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" --Rom. 3:22

Summary

When the Body of Christ is raptured home, the middle wall will go up again, and God will pick up with the nation of Israel right where he left off, somewhere around Acts 7. As the wall goes up again, the prophesied Tribulation will begin, followed by the establishment of the prophesied Kingdom, spoken of and promised all along to Abraham and his family.

The approved workman who need not be ashamed will know and not forget the promises that God has spoken since the world began, yet realizing that today in the Dispensation of the Grace of God, he lives in an age once hidden since the world began. He knows from the Scriptures the two economies are not the same, and that the Body of Christ is not spiritual Israel. This student of the Word knows he will not be fulfilling what God promised the nation of Israel, that his hope as part of the Body of Christ (Heavenly) is not their hope (Earthly).

____________________________________________

The Rapture Debate

I hear the same old question being asked about the "rapture" of the church. "Who ever believed in the rapture before you did?" - Paul did!

It is common to hear the Post - Millennial crowd say that the "catching away" of the body of Christ was never preached before the 1800's. This is simply not true. Paul taught a "mystery resurrection" for the church the body of Christ. It really does not matter, when you get right down where the rubber meets the road, as J. Vernon McGee was fond of saying, it really does not matter if the "mystery resurrection" was never preached after Paul did or not - this in NO WAY invalidates the truth of the scriptures.

More than that the Post-Millennial-Rapture rests firmly on the sandy soil of misconception.

There are many misconceptions that occur in bible study due to a failure to "rightly divide the word of truth". When we "rightly divide the word of truth" we give to Israel what belongs to Israel and we give to the body of Christ what belongs to the body of Christ.

In denominational circles Matthew chapter 24:37 & ff. is taught as being the same as 1Thessalonians chapter 4:13 & ff. when they are not. It is alleged that Matthew 24 is talking about the "rapture or catching away" of the body of Christ. In this lesson we will look at why this is not so.

VERSES FOR CONSIDERATION

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

COMMENTS:

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

VS 37 The conditions of Christ return are compared with the days of Noah. A few righteous people in the midst of unbelief. The term "son of man" is a term associated with Christ and the nation of Israel at the second coming set forth in type in the book of Ezekiel - not the body of Christ and the rapture.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

VS 38 All things continue as they have from the beginning. The status quo is "don