Guest onfire4Christ Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Omegaman, I praise God that you have the faith in him to keep you. But do you see how hard it is in the world today. Being a Born again on fire Christian is almost to the point of deadly these days in a lot of places. Here in America, we got it made right now. That will change. But even here where we still have the freedom to go to church when we want, it's getting more and more difficult. It's going to be 10 times much worse through the tribultaion. You see God will keep you, as long as you keep God. That's the key. You have to keep him and even though the Holy Ghost will still be here. His main objective there is to get people saved. The only way then to get to Heaven won't be hidding in the hillsides. But thru you sacrificing your life. Why would God want us to do that? When his Son has already done that. You or I going thru the tribulation as Born again Christians. Doesn't make sense just for that one reason to me. Christ came to this earth to die for our sins. So that we could miss the wrath of God that was and is to come. But if we stay through the trib, then we will be going thru what Christ died to keep us out of. So then why did he die? don't you see how conflicting this is? Besides, The tribulation isn't for the Gentiles anyway. It's for the Jews. To wake them up. I had to be done to get them out from egypt. Well, it will take this one last time to give them a rude awakening. Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. When the apostles used the word's '"great distress" they were talking of the trib. and verse 24 shows that we are still, now in the times of the Gentiles. It will not be fulfilled until the rapture. So as the scripture shows, the Jews will have a hard time until the end of the gentiles are over...rapture... then "But woe unto them..." verse 23 is speaking of the future after the time of the Gentiles....the Tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted May 2, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Why would God want us to do that? When his Son has already done that. You or I going thru the tribulation as Born again Christians. Doesn't make sense just for that one reason to me. Christ came to this earth to die for our sins. So that we could miss the wrath of God that was and is to come. But if we stay through the trib, then we will be going thru what Christ died to keep us out of. So then why did he die? don't you see how conflicting this is? Greetings On Fire 4 Christ, You have bought into a lie which only feeds into the Great Apostacy. You do not know the difference between God's Wrath and tribulation, even the Great Tribulation. Did our Lord die to keep the Apostles from their horrendous deaths - that is all except John who was ONLY imprisoned until his death. And did He die for all the martyrs from the cross till the very end? What about the "multitudes which no man can number" in Rev 7 who go through the Great Tribulation? Don't you realize that the rapture will ONLY be for "those who are alive and remain" (1 Thes 4) and that is ONLY a remnant? And that it ONLY occurs AFTER the Great Tribulation (Mt. 24). As for the trib period being ONLY for the Jews, why don't you sit and contemplate and even pray about those multitudes in Rev 7 from all nations that WILL go through the Great Tribulation. The pre-trib doctrine is so full of holes you could drive a semi through them. Read God's Word, it is good for the soul! Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITE OWL Posted May 3, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 535 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1957 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Why would God want us to do that? When his Son has already done that. You or I going thru the tribulation as Born again Christians. Doesn't make sense just for that one reason to me. Christ came to this earth to die for our sins. So that we could miss the wrath of God that was and is to come. But if we stay through the trib, then we will be going thru what Christ died to keep us out of. So then why did he die? don't you see how conflicting this is? Greetings On Fire 4 Christ, You have bought into a lie which only feeds into the Great Apostacy. You do not know the difference between God's Wrath and tribulation, even the Great Tribulation. Did our Lord die to keep the Apostles from their horrendous deaths - that is all except John who was ONLY imprisoned until his death. And did He die for all the martyrs from the cross till the very end? What about the "multitudes which no man can number" in Rev 7 who go through the Great Tribulation? Don't you realize that the rapture will ONLY be for "those who are alive and remain" (1 Thes 4) and that is ONLY a remnant? And that it ONLY occurs AFTER the Great Tribulation (Mt. 24). As for the trib period being ONLY for the Jews, why don't you sit and contemplate and even pray about those multitudes in Rev 7 from all nations that WILL go through the Great Tribulation. The pre-trib doctrine is so full of holes you could drive a semi through them. Read God's Word, it is good for the soul! Blessings, Dad Ernie <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wish I would've said that. Good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Why would God want us to do that? When his Son has already done that. You or I going thru the tribulation as Born again Christians. Doesn't make sense just for that one reason to me. WARNING: I have a flippant style that may tend to offend the reader. Once you get to know me, you will find that it is not intended to be anything other that humorous, if you find it otherwise, you misunderstand me. Now, with that said, on to my response: I run into this notion a lot, the idea that something does not make sense. It is not my concern, whether something makes sense to me or not, it is my concern to discover what God has said. Since it does not make sense to you, let me ask, do you suppose that it made sense to the apostles that were persecuted, or the early Church, or the martyrs through the centuries, or the martyrs dieing today, in other lands? Why would I presume that as an American, I should be exempted of such a fate? All who live Godly shall suffer tribulation, that is a promise, it is supposed to be that way. Jesus suffered for us, so that we did not have to suffer God's wrath. The tribulation is not God's wrath. God's wrath is after that, and then in eternity. It makes no sense to me, lol, to try to use my sense to decide what God's will is, based on how I think He ought to behave. Christ came to this earth to die for our sins. So that we could miss the wrath of God that was and is to come. But if we stay through the trib, then we will be going thru what Christ died to keep us out of. So then why did he die? don't you see how conflicting this is? Gee, and here I thought, that Jesus died to keep us out of Hell, but then I had few opportunities to attend Sunday school. It is not at all a conflict, unless you turn the tribulation into the wrath of God. The Bible no where asserts this, does it? The Day of the Lord, is God's wrath, and all you need to do, is to do a search on Day of the Lord, and you will find it is associated with the Sun, Moon, and Stars Darkening, which Jesus said in Matt 24, would be after the tribulation. I choose to believe Jesus on that point. Besides, The tribulation isn't for the Gentiles anyway. It's for the Jews. To wake them up. I had to be done to get them out from egypt. Well, it will take this one last time to give them a rude awakening. You may be right on that point, the tribulation is pictured as being in Israel, those in Judea are told to flee, etc, pray that it is not on the sabbath etc., I suspect, that I will be right here in the U.S. I suspect that the effects will not be limited to Israel, but it will be the worse there. Those are only suspicions, not a conviction based on scripture. However, if it is Judeocentric, that does not imply, that the church is absent, it is neutral on that subject. Luke 21:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted May 5, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2005 I don't mean to be the first one to scream Fallacy but i did... The tribulation is not God's wrath. God's wrath is after that, and then in eternity. It makes no sense to me, lol, to try to use my sense to decide what God's will is, based on how I think He ought to behave. But what do you thing About these? God's judgement is althrough out the tribulation. And if its not what do you acount for this? God's Seven Bowls, Trumpets, and seals of wrath? What are the seals of God's wrath? (Click here) What are the seven Trumpets of God's wrath? (Click here) What are the seven Bowls of God's wrath?(Click here) God's wrath is throughout the whole Tribulation! Time Chart of God's wrath throught the seven years (Click here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frankie boy Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Hi Trinity, If you read Revelation closely, you will understand that the seven seals were on the outside of the scroll. The scroll could not be opened until all the seals were removed or opened. In the opening of the sixth seal, Christ's wrath is about to commence but does not happen until the opening of the seventh seal which allows the scroll to be opened and the wrath of God begins with the seven angels who blow the seven trumpets. At the seventh trumpet, the seven vials are poured out. This is the chronology of God's wrath during the seventieth week. The great trib is the second half of the week and is not the whole of seven years but approx. 3 1/2 years long. Tribulation is not the same as the word wrath. Use Strongs or any dictionary to prove this. The Holy Spirit does not mince or play on words. He says what He means and means what He says. If the seals were God's wrath, then at the fifth seal, God would be responsible for the martyred saints. Is He? I would encourage you to check out my post on the pretrib thread on "imminence". this is where a pretrib believer should start. If "imminence is true, then pretrib is viable but if it cannot be backed by scripture, then it is the "fallacy" you need to deal with. Be a Berean Christian and see whether these things be so. Blessings, Frankie boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted May 6, 2005 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted May 6, 2005 (edited) Frankie boy, I haven't seen you around before, so, WELCOME to worthyland and stick around for a while I like your style. Omegaman, you're onto to it as well. eric. Edited May 6, 2005 by eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frankie boy Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Thanks for the welcome Eric, Would like you to peruse the posts I made on the pretrib thread and let me know what you think. I haven't got all the answers but the ones I have I think are according to the Word. We all "still" see thru a glass darkly, but then face to face". I just hope in "That DAY" He can say of us....."Well done thou good and faithful servants" In Him, Frankie boy PS I will stick around awhile as long as there are those who want to at least hear, even if they do not agree. Loving each other is still the command for for true fellowship. God Bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted May 6, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2005 Thank you Frank Boy You still Helped prove my case God hasn't appointed us to His wrath, so if God's wrath starts at the Mid point does that still mean the Posttrib is still a Fallacy? Because Posttibbers believe that God will not pore out his wrath on us(His Church) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I don't mean to be the first one to scream Fallacy but i did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.59eed8b93aa1c92d8b306f10811981dc.jpg)
Recommended Posts