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Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

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Hi Davey,

Thats some pretty heavy stuff there brother!

Many will be decieved by anti-Christ which is the reason Jesus Has warned us ahead of time.

Many because they arent expecting to go through tribulation will think they are doing us and God a service by turning us over to the authorities, thinking we are decieved and blasphemers, but Jesus will be there with us through it all.

The time for the mark is rapidly approaching, and we of the faith will be put to the test by the enemy, but God will show us a route of escape.

God bless

Kevin

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Guest davey

Roger that Kevin!

We have no need to have fear of that time, for as Paul said, "If God be for us, who can be against us?" (Rom.8:31).

Our LORD hinted in the Ezekiel 32 through 39 Chapters that the reason for the 'great tribulation' is to create a great contrast. Some evidently need a very strong wake-up call, in order to learn Who The One GOD is (per Hebrews 1 and John 1). He is not angry at those who trust in Him and in His Word. He will be angry at all those who preach a "confederacy" (i.e. one-world government). The below Isaiah Scripture was only partly historical. It is a blueprint for the one world "beast" system of Rev.13:

Isa 8:9-17

9 Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.

The subject is of all nations joining together as one; even of those who prepare the "Peace and safety" event upon the deceived (1 Thess.5).

Isa.8:10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.

11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,

12 "Say ye not, 'A confederacy,' to all them to whom this people shall say, 'A confederacy'; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.

13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.

14 And He shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among My disciples.

17 And I will wait upon the LORD, That hideth His face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for Him.

(KJV)

I hope you noticed the "stone of stumbling" metaphor above. Peter mentioned how that many are "appointed" to a stumbling at our Cornerstone Jesus Christ (1 Peter 2). Many of the above Isaiah events haven't been completed yet today, because the idea of anti-Christ coming first to play Jesus is a major part of that "stone of stumbling". And, did you notice that stumbling is upon "both the houses of Israel" per verse 14? That means upon many of both Judah (Jews - "house of Judah"), and upon many of the western Christian nations ("house of Israel" - ten tribes).

The deeper meaning of being "taken" is an analogy our Lord Jesus covered in His Gospel, and is really from these Isaiah 8 verses about the latter days of tribulation, when a one-world "confederacy" of nations will come together, ending all wars as we know it. The real meaning of that "taken" analogy, means to be spiritually 'taken' by false messiah...

Luke 17:35-37

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

(KJV)

Christ's disciples asked our Lord where those would be 'taken' to? It's very easy to think this is speaking of the gathering to Christ, but it is not. It's a gathering to the false messiah...

Matt.24:25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert;" go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers;" believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the CARCASE is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

(KJV)

Christ is saying, "I told you, when they start to say, 'He's here! He's here! Our Lord is here!', then don't believe it." Why? Because as verse 27 states, His True Coming is going to be with those signs from the "east" towards the "west", which relates to His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, and that area being cleaved apart from east to west (Zech.14). False messiah comes in from the 'north', as the Isaiah 10 serves as the blueprint for antichrist/Satan's coming.

And then our Lord Jesus reveals what the "taken" metaphor is about with the next verse of Matt.24:28. Just like Satan wants to be Christ, he and his host try to mimic God as The Great Eagle Who covers His loved ones (Deut.32; Jer.48:40; Hosea 8. Edom-Esau tries to be a great "eagle" - Jer.49; Obadiah 1). Esau (Russia) will be the leader of the pack against God's people just before our Lord Jesus returns. That hailstone event weighing more than a talent (70-120lbs.) is upon Esau-Idumea and his hosts when they come upon Israel. In Jerusalem is where those false 'eagles' will especially be roosting, with false messiah.

Matt.24:28 For wheresoever the CARCASE is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

That word "carcase" in the Greek means a dead body. This analogy per God's Word means that false messiah and his will try to come into power like a great eagle, but in reality, they will be vultures seeking the prey! Vultures go after carcases that are already dead, which per this analogy, means the 'spiritually' dead that are deceived by anti-Christ. By the way, the Greek meaning of 'anti' means 'instead of', or 'in place of'. So "anti-Christ" means "the instead of Christ". The deceived will literally worship antichrist in place of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thus the first one "taken" in the "field" (world), will be by anti-Christ.

Our LORD's metaphor teachings are most excellent! The first mention of those metaphors were given in the Old Testament Books, especially of His Books of the Old Testament prophets. It's no wonder Satan has attacked the teaching of the Old Testament within many of our Christian Churches today. Many are taught Old Testament is all dead history. The simplicity in Christ Jesus is in once having covered Old Testament teaching, then these metaphors He was referring to within The New Testament just start popping out at you! His parables then truly begin to open up in understanding, and we begin to realize just a few Words from our Lord Jesus in The Gospel are often references to major events given in detail, back in the Old Testament Books.

It's not too late. One should go back and cover all the Old Testament Books of the prophets, and get aquainted with all those metaphors, like I've given samples of here. A work called The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge will be a big help in crossreference for it. You will not regret it, with our Lord's help. Where other believers struggle much, our Lord's analogies will pop out at you, and much more of His Word will be opened for you.

Matt 13:51-52

51 Jesus saith unto them, "Have ye understood all these things?" They say unto Him, "Yea, Lord."

52 Then said He unto them, "Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old."

(KJV)

In Christ,

Davey.

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By the way Kevin :

Did you know that that site you posted in the Prophecy Forum is a pre-trib site?

Actually this thread is called defense of the post trib-rapture :t2::b:

Ditto!

God bless

In Jesus

Kevin

I wasn't talking about this thread, but rather the site you posted in the prophecy forum. Here it is, and it is definitely a pre-trib site :

Hi Guys,

This is a pretty good link that gives bible references and then whats happening around the world in reference to the scriptures.

I have found some of the stuff pretty interesting.Prophecy in the news

Hope ya like it

In Jesus

Kevin

And here's the link to the thread you started : http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...&f=11&t=5123&s=

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By the way Kevin :

Did you know that that site you posted in the Prophecy Forum is a pre-trib site?

Actually this thread is called defense of the post trib-rapture :t2::rofl:

Ditto!

God bless

In Jesus

Kevin

I wasn't talking about this thread, but rather the site you posted in the prophecy forum. Here it is, and it is definitely a pre-trib site :

Hi Guys,

This is a pretty good link that gives bible references and then whats happening around the world in reference to the scriptures.

I have found some of the stuff pretty interesting.Prophecy in the news

Hope ya like it

In Jesus

Kevin

And here's the link to the thread you started : http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...&f=11&t=5123&s=

Actually I posted this site as a reference to what is going on in Israel as far as what is in the news and not in reference to Pre, Mid or Post trib. rapture.

They are reporting things from a perspective of the Jews, which everyone else seems to avoid and even report lies or nothing at all. That is the reason for posting the site and nothing to do with "rapture" at all.

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Guest davey

One must get away from Bible Scripture in order to 'ease' pre-trib 'escapism' opinions into a conversation. Those who do so, must get away from the distinct times and seasons our Lord Jesus gave that must occur before His second coming, i.e. the sounding of the 7th trumpet, the woes of Rev.9 through 11, the "last trump" timing Paul gave in 1 Cor.15:52, etc. They must clearly deny Scripture to believe their 'fly away' pre-trib doctrine, even denying the directness of Paul's warning given in 2 Thessalonians 2 of the two major events that must occur before Christ returns.

Thus their coverage of Bible Scripture is to 'deny' the "times and the seasons" Paul warned of in 1 Thess.5. They must also 'add' a "secret rapture" into the Zechariah 14 verses of the one and only second coming of our Lord Jesus to the Mount of Olives.

There is no pride in seeing fellow-believers on The Savior 'fall away' to worship a false messiah who comes first, working "wonders" and "great signs" in the sight of men (Matt.24:24; Rev.13:11>). There is no pride in seeing fellow believers hop on the first rapture boat to be the first one "taken" in the "field" by antichrist (world; Matt.13). Those who think they will 'escape' will not, as Paul taught in 1 Thess.5. There is no pride in seeing fellow believers deny The Scriptures, and replace Them with the 'traditions of men'.

In Christ,

Davey.

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Amen Davey

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One must get away from Bible Scripture in order to 'ease' pre-trib 'escapism' opinions into a conversation. Those who do so, must get away from the distinct times and seasons our Lord Jesus gave that must occur before His second coming, i.e. the sounding of the 7th trumpet, the woes of Rev.9 through 11, the "last trump" timing Paul gave in 1 Cor.15:52, etc. They must clearly deny Scripture to believe their 'fly away' pre-trib doctrine, even denying the directness of Paul's warning given in 2 Thessalonians 2 of the two major events that must occur before Christ returns.

Thus their coverage of Bible Scripture is to 'deny' the "times and the seasons" Paul warned of in 1 Thess.5. They must also 'add' a "secret rapture" into the Zechariah 14 verses of the one and only second coming of our Lord Jesus to the Mount of Olives.

There is no pride in seeing fellow-believers on The Savior 'fall away' to worship a false messiah who comes first, working "wonders" and "great signs" in the sight of men (Matt.24:24; Rev.13:11>). There is no pride in seeing fellow believers hop on the first rapture boat to be the first one "taken" in the "field" by antichrist (world; Matt.13). Those who think they will 'escape' will not, as Paul taught in 1 Thess.5. There is no pride in seeing fellow believers deny The Scriptures, and replace Them with the 'traditions of men'.

In Christ,

Davey.

As usual, all post-tribbers confuse the second coming with the rapture, but I just wonder who died and appointed you judge.

Only puffed up pride would allow a believer to tell another fellow believer that he will end up worshipping a false messiah, unless of course, he believes he's a prophet.

I don't mind taking the time to talk about such things, that is, until people like you come in here riding on your high horse trying to condemn others. How does that edify the body?

You know what they say, "Pride comes before the fall."

I refuse to waste much time on such utter nonsense, but I hope that you will someday see the light. :t2:

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Guest davey

So now, "rolling-thunder", you want others to feel you've been slighted by my quoting of Scripture within these posts along with commentary? You're the one who brought a mocking attitude here, and I must say, you even did that without one word about the Scripture examples that were offered.

You said:

"I see many post-tribbers are paranoid, thinking that the family members who will turn them in are pre-tribbers. What is this, post-trib pride? You actually think that if the pre-tribbers are wrong they will blame their not being ready on the post-tribbers and turn them in?"

I'm not dumb as to the reason you did that mocking above. It is because either you cannot discern those Scripture examples, or you do not want to. So then, what choice is left to you? Simply, the attempt to destroy one's credibility. That's all you have left; and since you have chosen to exclude any of those Scripture examples in your reply, and clearly were not interested in discussing Scripture here, but only seek to air your ideas, even without giving any Scripture proof, in doing that, you have actually shown your own credibility to be very suspect.

I judge no man. I haven't authority to judge. But I do and can discern the difference between our Lord's Words, and a bunch of men's traditions that you did not start. The pre-tribulation "fly away" "secret rapture" doctrine began in 1830's Great Britain. It was never inferred as being Christian doctrine before that time (research 'Darby'). But if you want to believe on that false tradition, then I say, 'have a good trip'. You're free to believe however you want. And I will not hate you for believing that, nor do I pump myself up in pride, as you say. Instead, I'm saddened by your accepting that false doctrine that members of the Irvingite Church and The 'Brethren' cooked up in 1830's Great Britain, even with members of the Illuminati having a hand in it within Irving's Church (See 'The Incredible Cover-Up', by Dave MacPherson, p.21).

But don't try to attack my credibility in The Scriptures when it's obvious you're putting your trust on what some man or 'system' has told you to believe. I don't ask that any believe me. I ask other believers on Christ to verify for themselves, to check it out for themselves in The Word, just as those of Berea did when Paul taught (Acts 17).

So then "rolling-thunder', do you hate me, or do you love me?

In Christ,

Davey.

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