What in your opinion should be the right response?

[SIC]

2 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

But you have raised numerous questions relating to marriage - in regard to leaders of groups marrying one of their group - pastors appointing elders and questioning their age and their lack of children or else having small children - not least your own comments in those questions - and so on. So if I say I know your mind then I am saying what is evident from your own comments. 

In this instant if you cite two prophetic passages of Scripture to answer the fact of a believing man desiring to marry an unbelieving women - then go with your own direction in your own words. No need to be shy about it old bean?

I asked ONE question about a married man without children being appointed as an elder. That is about eldership qualification not about marriage per se.

I asked ONE question about how to respond to a believer that I know who has explicitly stated that he intends to marry an unbeliever. That question is definitely about marriage.

Does asking ONE question about marriage amount to raising 'many issues to do with marriage'?

[Kelly2363]

4 hours ago, just_abc said:

Agreed.

 

Sorry but I don't understand why the difference?  It is still wrong both ways..?

 

 

Are you under the Law - then live according to the Law.

In this instant my meaning is that a believing man has authority and a duty to be the head of his own household and when he first marries, his household includes his wife.

Before a man marries he is under his father and mother.

A man doesn't have headship until he marries because his headship is to his wife and his household is his wife - and when they have children then his children also. 

When a believing sister marries an unbelieving man she is coming under authority of her husband just as she was under the authority of her father and mother before hand.

In my own experience from speaking with hundreds of sisters and women I know that the many are naturally inclined to desire a strong husband who is also compassionate and caring.

So the sister who marries an unbelieving man may come under an abusive husband - who may be always contrary to spiritual things - and they suffer because they are a natural women in Christ. 

The believing man who marries an unbelieving women may for all of her unbelief find himself with a natural and reasonable women.

Regardless, the women is always shown mercy and the man is always rebuked. 

Addendum

Just to append the more pertinent possibility when speaking about the unbelieving woman marrying the believing man - we may be able to speak of a Jezebelic effect when we speak of being unequally yoked - because the inequality is a matter of spiritual darkness and spiritual light. Yet even in that instant the man has authority even as Ahab was both the husband and the head of his wife Jezebel. Weak men will always be weak unless they repent and strong women will always be strong with weak men. 

So in my experience of dealing with and provoking realities when I minister to married or nearing marriage couples - I always hold the man to account and the woman to hearing it without abusing her with false accusations.

Let the believing man in this OP speak to his unbelieving wife according to wisdom and not according to a rod. Let those who council do so to their own account before God. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Kelly2363
Added Addendum

[just_abc]

um.. please forgive me if I am mistaken..  but as far as I know.. I think bible verse  2 Cor 6:14  is not specific for women only?  

For example if I am not mistaken.. the passage does not mention that it is meant for women only?  

Plus if one were to read further on to verse 18.. the terms "sons and daughters" is used?  Which to me implies that the passage is possibly /likely meant for both male and female believers...not just female only?

Just a thought.

Thanks.

Edited October 11, 2021 by just_abc

[Marathoner]

On 10/10/2021 at 1:43 PM, Josheb said:

Oh my. What in all of heaven and earth is wrong with you?  

That's the subject of a five-part series entitled, "Where Shall I Begin?" 

Thankfully I'm mindful of the topic, so we won't go there at this time.  

 

On 10/10/2021 at 1:43 PM, Josheb said:

The single Paul was wise enough to provide sound counsel

The apostle of Jesus Christ is our elder in the faith and old friend, given to us by the Lord so boneheads like yours truly might profit from his inspired counsel. I'll amend what I wrote in a different topic: "I cannot recommend the apostle Paul strongly enough!"  

 

On 10/10/2021 at 1:43 PM, Josheb said:

Works for me. However, one of concerns I'm trying to get at with my inquiries-now-turned-commentary is that we should give consideration to our soon-to-be-unequally-yoked brother and how he might responded because we supposedly know him well but have neglected to speak about this earlier in the courtship . All things are possible but not all things are profitable  and sound godly counsel should bear fruit. Even I with my education and both marital and professional experience would be challenged were someone to ask me to speak to a borther in Christ I knew well about his marrying outside the faith. 

Well said and I cannot say that I've found myself in that precise situation, counseling a brother to avoid entanglements with unbelievers. I know that I would be exceedingly careful not to misappropriate scripture (like the passage regarding the watchmanship of Ezekiel) to justify bopping my brother upon the head with whatever I come up with. 

However, I have dispensed counsel to a brother who was obsessed with finding a wife; this obsession was the issue he wrestled with and by virtue of his perceived entitlement in the Lord, his conduct alienated sisters and brothers alike. I advised him to abandon his search with haste, devoting himself to more profitable matters (serving others). If the will and purpose of God is for a brother or sister to marry, then endurance and meekness seems to me to be most prudent course of action. Endurance... whenever I mention this fruit to my old friend Paul (not the apostle, hehe) he responds with, "Amen! I highly recommend endurance!"

It would be difficult to speak with a brother about marrying an unbeliever. Hence sober-minded discernment and meekness govern my conduct in the Lord. I read that five-part series and I learned a thing or two, you know.  
 

On 10/10/2021 at 1:43 PM, Josheb said:

Farm him out to the pros .

Yes indeed. It might happen in the following way...

"I'm absolutely clueless but I happen to know a brother in Christ who specializes in such matters. Here's his card, let me know how it goes." 
 

On 10/10/2021 at 1:43 PM, Josheb said:

The op is a great inquiry. When I read it I saw an opportunity for amazing things but there is also the potential for wounding, especially if we don't first start with God and ourselves: How can I best bear God's fruit in another's life given the current circumstances? 

Well said again, brother. Let us take great care in how we deal with our brother or sister, remembering that love should temper our words and deeds in all things. This is also why we ought to know our brother well and why we shouldn't tarry until he's ready to marry an unbeliever. The time for counsel is better suited prior to courtship (if at all possible). 

Nevertheless I am familiar with more than one brother and sister who married unbelievers, and their testimony is an edifying witness of the power of Christ in the lives of husbands and wives alike. We should be cognizant that we don't always know as we ought to know.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by Marathoner
formatting error

[Marathoner]

22 hours ago, SIC said:

Just curious. According to you I can warn when he frequents prostitutes but cannot warn when he is about to marry an unbeliever.  What's the difference between the two?  Both are acts of disobedience against God's word. 

Of course you're free to advise him against marrying an unbeliever, but this is where nuance (you need to know him very well), meekness (not considering yourself wise), love, and self-control (fruits of the Spirit) take center stage. Consider your words very carefully, examining yourself before approaching your brother to point at the mote in his eye, ensuring that your own vision isn't obscured by a jungle.  

There's also the matter of walking in the Spirit, knowing when you ought to speak or remain silent, something which can't be encapsulated in a few sentences or a passage of scripture. You misappropriated that passage from the book of Ezekiel regarding the watchmanship bestowed upon the prophet by the Lord, an indication that perhaps it would be best for you to remain silent in these matters. 

As for likening an unbeliever to a prostitute, others have addressed this strange fire in the topic and I have nothing to add to what they wrote. Their words stand and I'm in agreement. 

Call upon the Lord to gift you with both wisdom and sober discernment, my friend, so you will learn when you ought to speak or remain silent.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by Marathoner

[Marathoner]

14 hours ago, just_abc said:

um.. please forgive me if I am mistaken..  but as far as I know.. I think bible verse  2 Cor 6:14  is not specific for women only?  

For example if I am not mistaken.. the passage does not mention that it is meant for women only?  

Plus if one were to read further on to verse 18.. the terms "sons and daughters" is used?  Which to me implies that the passage is possibly /likely meant for both male and female believers...not just female only?

Just a thought.

Thanks.

I perceive that what we're looking at is a matter of circumstance and propriety, my friend. Brothers lean upon one another just as sisters do with our sisters, and I would never presume to approach my sister in Christ uninvited so I might offer my take on what she is doing. For that matter I wouldn't approach my brother whom I didn't know very well with my take on things, either. 

Yes, the scripture equally applies to male and female as we are on this earth, which is how the Lord created us to be in this flesh and blood. However, when I speak or write I refer to my brother in Christ; the situation would change depending upon circumstance. 

In the case of my sister, if she sought my counsel then I would be glad to offer whatever the Lord gave to me with regard to her inquiry. The same applies to my brother! There is no male or female in Jesus Christ. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Marathoner
typo

[Kelly2363]

3 hours ago, SIC said:

I didn't liken an unbeliever to a prostitute. Please read the thread clearly. Someone said ' If a brother frequents prostitutes you should warn him not for this'. I responded  visiting a prostitute, dating an unbeliever both are against God's word. Both are sinful '. I'm paraphrasing 

 

As for the Ezekiel passage. Why is it misappropriation? I think every believer is a watchman over those believers that God has put in his life. Especially the ones of the same sex. In the future I may be walking down the wrong path. I hope some brother will warn me. In the past a brother has called me 'foolish' for the way I spend money. A week later I went and thanked him for warning me. 

But I agree I nerd to exercise discernment and need to be prayerful in warning. 

You also need authority to warn and not simply discernment. It doesn't take discernment to warn a brother that the Scripture admonished believers not to be unequally yoked. It simply takes a form of reading and a form of words. It can be expressed in no more than a common sense meaning - even if you are wholly ignorant of why the admonition is given in the Scripture. 

I was once approached by an elder of a missionary work when I was a young believer to ask me what I thought about he and a younger sister becoming engaged to be married. I knew that he had been married previously and that his marriage faltered because of his sin of adultery - but whilst he understood that fact seeing as he could cite the Scripture regarding adultery and remarriage - he wanted to know whether he was released from that meaning seeing that he was not born again at the time. So I told him that marriage was instituted in Eden - it was not simply a matter of spiritual meanings but was also a natural fact of the intentional will of God. I also told him that seeing as he was a Roman Catholic at the time of his adultery he needed to say whether he did understand the meaning of marriage before God when he married in a Church and before witnesses - whether he knew God or not.

He picked me up every week for ten months and took me to his home to pray with him on this issue. I never changed my mind. He often expressed a spiritual claim that he did not know God when he married the first time and I always said that he did know the Scripture because he was a Roman Catholic and knew the sanctity of marriage. In the end he and the younger sister were engaged and he asked me to be his best man at his wedding. So I took the only position I could take and agreed because I also knew the sister and she was a mature woman who was in the spirit and part of the Mission Work. I then committed the matter to the Lord.

On the way to the church on his wedding day in a carriage bearing witness to all that the groom was coming to his bride - he turned to me and expressed doubts because it suddenly came to him what he was doing. So I told him that it was far too late by then. Marriage is a more private matter than we suppose it to be - even when it is witnessed by thousands. In the end the Groom will come to gather up His Bride - and unless she is dressed in readiness He will refuse her because He will not marry a whore. 

So by all means be a watchman - but don't warn your brother with a trumpet because he says that he is to marry an unbelieving women. Marriage is a natural fact instituted by God - don't make it into a spiritual claim inferentially that has it that in doing so your brother will suffer loss. In the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. His wife will be excluded if she remains in unbelief - whereas he will not be excluded when he marries a woman who is free to marry him according to the natural institution of God laid down in Genesis. Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Kelly2363
Spelling

[SIC]

19 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

You also need authority to warn and not simply discernment. It doesn't take discernment to warn a brother that the Scripture admonished believers not to be unequally yoked. It simply takes a form of reading and a form of words. It can be expressed in no more than a common sense meaning - even if you are wholly ignorant of why the admonition is given in the Scripture. 

I was once approached by an elder of a missionary work when I was a young believer to ask me what I thought about he and a younger sister becoming engaged to be married. I knew that he had been married previously and that his marriage faltered because of his sin of adultery - but whilst he understood that fact seeing as he could cite the Scripture regarding adultery and remarriage - he wanted to know whether he was released from that meaning seeing that he was not born again at the time. So I told him that marriage was instituted in Eden - it was not simply a matter of spiritual meanings but was also a natural fact of the intentional will of God. I also told him that seeing as he was a Roman Catholic at the time of his adultery he needed to say whether he did understand the meaning of marriage before God when he married in a Church and before witnesses - whether he knew God or not.

He picked me up every week for ten months and took me to his home to pray with him on this issue. I never changed my mind. He often expressed a spiritual claim that he did not know God when he married the first time and I always said that he did know the Scripture because he was a Roman Catholic and knew the sanctity of marriage. In the end he and the younger sister were engaged and he asked me to be his best man at his wedding. So I took the only position I could take and agreed because I also knew the sister and she was a mature woman who was in the spirit and part of the Mission Work. I then committed the matter to the Lord.

On the way to the church on his wedding day in a carriage bearing witness to all that the groom was coming to his bride - he turned to me and expressed doubts because it suddenly came to him what he was doing. So I told him that it was far too late by then. Marriage is a more private matter than we suppose it to be - even when it is witnessed by thousands. In the end the Groom will come to gather up His Bride - and unless she is dressed in readiness He will refuse her because He will not marry a whore. 

So by all means be a watchman - but don't warn your brother with a trumpet because he says that he is to marry an unbelieving women. Marriage is a natural fact instituted by God - don't make it into a spiritual claim inferentially that has it that in doing so your brother will suffer loss. In the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. His wife will be excluded if she remains in unbelief - whereas he will not be excluded when he marries a woman who is free to marry him according to the natural institution of God laid down in Genesis. Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

He may not suffer an eternal loss. But his life on earth will be made much harder because his wife is an unbeliever. His witness to his children will be severely compromised. His involvement with the church will be compromised. An unbelieving wife will probably be dead against giving to the church. Unnecessary complications. Which is why the person needs to be warned.

I'd probably warn him once. And that is it. Thereafter it is between him , the lady and God. I will probably continue praying for him.

 

[SIC]

6 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

As author, you can delete this whole thread which appears to be hijacked.

No. I'm not in the business of censoring people. People are free to say what they want. Free to hijack the thread if they so choose.

That being said this thread has become toxic. So I'm just gonna unfollow this thread and stop responding from this point.

Thanks for your contribution @Saved.One.by.Grace. God Bless You.

Edited October 12, 2021 by SIC
Typo

[Kelly2363]

3 hours ago, SIC said:

He may not suffer an eternal loss. But his life on earth will be made much harder because his wife is an unbeliever. His witness to his children will be severely compromised. His involvement with the church will be compromised. An unbelieving wife will probably be dead against giving to the church. Unnecessary complications. Which is why the person needs to be warned.

I'd probably warn him once. And that is it. Thereafter it is between him , the lady and God. I will probably continue praying for him.

 

Most of the manipulators and abusive people I have met have been believers. I wouldn't worry too much about unbelievers other than to bring them to Christ and to pray that they turn out better than many of those who are already saved. Of course you could just report a highjacking - its obvious.