nate elav Posted November 15, 2021 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted November 15, 2021 How can those born before Christ was born be saved? How can those born after Christ was born be saved if they never heard of Christ or heard his message? Examples might be Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and King David. Also, natives far removed from civilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted November 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,035 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,453 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted November 15, 2021 6 minutes ago, nate elav said: How can those born before Christ was born be saved? How can those born after Christ was born be saved if they never heard of Christ or heard his message? Examples might be Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and King David. Also, natives far removed from civilization. There is no easy answer for your questions because we are not God and see impossibilities where He does not. But let's look at His Word for a few comforting facts. Moses was in the Kingdom. That means he was born again (Jn.3:3-5). In Matthew 17, our Lord Jesus said that some of His disciples wold see Him coming in His Kingdom. Moses and Elijah were there. There are many places in the prophets were our Lord Jesus is predicted. Moses and Elijah BELIEVED in Messiah looking forward. Peter, in Matthew Chapter 16 declares Him looking at Him, and we believe in Jesus looking back and believing. David is in the Kingdom for sure. He will be resurrected and second in command of Israel in her restoration (Jer.30:9). He believed what he wrote so much about in the psalms. Adam will most probably be in the Kingdom for he believed God about "the seed of the woman". He called his wife "mother of the living". The next point of comfort is the Covenant of Promise made with Abraham. There, God promises that in Abraham's seed "all the families of the earth will be blessed. This blessing is threefold; (i) It is a promise that men will know Jesus and be infused with His Spirit (Gal.3:16). (ii) To Abraham's seed is given "the gates of his enemies". That means that righteous government will eventually be installed on earth. All men will benefit from this except criminals. (iii) To Abraham is promised the Land and the whole earth (Rom.3:14), but only in resurrection, since he would die before he got them physically (Gen.17). That means that God will solve the problem of physical death. This our Lord does in John 1:29 - for the wages of sin (singular) is death (Rom.5:23) - the devastating fallenness of Adam. Thus, we see that all men will eventually be resurrected (1st Cor.15:22). (iv) To Abraham and his seed (including Jesus) God said that Abraham's enemies would be His enemies. So we can look for justice and retribution on those men who have gone against God, Christ, Jew and Believer. According to Genesis 9 a blow against a man is a blow against God. Justice will one day reign and according to Isaiah 66:24 we will look upon men in judicial agony In Romans 8:29 God does not decide by predestination. He decides by "foreknowledge". He knows which way a man will go before the man is born. Only AFTER the man has chosen (which God knew he would do) is this man predestinated NOT to be saved, but to be conformed to the image and likeness of Jesus. That is, God can exercise His sovereignty WITHOUT touching a man's free will. God's plan is not to send the rest of mankind to the Lake of Fire. His plan is usher in benign and equitous GOVERNMENT on earth by the righteous rule of Jesus first and then men who have been transformed into His likeness. This government will have three main duties. (i) To see that all worship is directed at Jesus. Nobody will be allowed to insult Him as they do now. (ii) To create a fertile and righteous environment for men to live and worship. That means a strict rule of dealing with criminals (including fallen angels and demons). (iii) To look after the creation. Man may use the treasures of the earth but the earth must be respected and given her "Sabbaths" - a time to regenerate. When Israel entered the Good Land to conquer it, God said He would not give Israel all the Land at once IN CASE wild beasts multiplied and roamed and rule the earth. When Israel was taken into captivity by Babylon, God set the time of Israel's chastisement by the Sabbaths that Israel had not given her Land. It is true that millions of people will not hear of Jesus in their lifetime. It is true that all men must die (the only exception is those Christians living at the call for resurrection- 1st Cor.15:51-52). It is true that many will end in the Lake of Fire - but that is decided by their evil works (Rev.20) not their faith. It is true that many babies were killed in and out of their mother's womb. It is true that Jewish woman ate their babies during the Babylonian siege. The Holocaust is true because Israel broke Covenant with their God (see Lev.26 and Deut.28). It is also true that all men are not equally endowed. God is not a mass-production-assembly-line God. But for each and every problem, God has set Himself aside seven thousand years to sort it out. And He is "ALL"-mighty. Nobody can stop Him. In the "fullness of time" Jesus will head up all things on earth - and in heaven. It just takes time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted November 15, 2021 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,946 Content Per Day: 3.27 Reputation: 4,869 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted November 15, 2021 1 hour ago, nate elav said: How can those born before Christ was born be saved? How can those born after Christ was born be saved if they never heard of Christ or heard his message? Examples might be Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and King David. Also, natives far removed from civilization. Faith is a requirement for those in both OT & NT times. Gen 15:1-6 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, "Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward." (2) But Abram said, "Lord GOD, what will You give me, seeing I go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?" (3) Then Abram said, "Look, You have given me no offspring; indeed one born in my house is my heir!" (4) And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir." (5) Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." (6) And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. Just like He did to Abraham, God can speak directly to anyone. There are stories of tribes which previously had no contact with the outside world knowing about Christ through visions and prophecies among them. Scripture says God reveals Himself from heaven, but the truth that is obvious in Creation is suppressed in unrighteousness. Rom 1:18-21 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, (19) because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (20) For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, (21) because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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