The Rapture Propaganda Of The 70's-80's A Theif In The Night Series

[Montana Marv]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Prove it with plainly stated scripture and not wildly interpreted and embellished opinions. Neither "Israel" nor "the Church" are mentioned anywhere in Matthew 24.

The Church was a mystery not revealed in ages past.  Rom 16:25,26.  Romans 16 is about brothers and sisters in Christ, the Church.  Matt 24 cannot be about the Church, part of ages past. We are now in the Age of Grace.

Judas Iscariot was a Disciple, not an Apostle.  The other 11 Disciples became Apostles after the Ascension, Matthias became the 12th by lot.  Rom 1:1 - Paul called to be an Apostle.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Montana Marv]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

I completely agree if you mean pre-, mid-, and post-trib Dispensational Premillennial positions are not in scripture. If the tribulation of Matthew 24 is a past-tense event, then logic dictates all eschatological positions must be post-trib in some way. 

Not going to fall for that.  Matt 24:21 - For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be equaled again. And this is after those in Judea flee to the mountains.  Jerusalem was surrounded in 70 D, no one could leave.  A long stretch in time.  The Holocaust far outweighs what happens in 70 AD.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

He plainly states, "YOU will be delivered to tribulation." Jews are not mentioned anywhere in Matthew 24. Nowhere. Get out your Bible and read the chapter yourself to verify what I just posted. 

Then those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.  Jews, those of Israel are to flee.  Those to flee are not designated, except for those who reside in Judea, one cannot put a label it is/was for Christian to flee.  Not there, a false assumption.   Many modern day Believers have been handed over to tribulation, ongoing for over 2000 years.  There are still wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes in various places, so 70 AD is out with the bath water.  The "you" is about those who see these wars and rumors of wars, and with earthquakes. Not the Disciples, they asked what is going to happen in the future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

He plainly states, "YOU will be delivered to tribulation." Jews are not mentioned anywhere in Matthew 24. Nowhere. Get out your Bible and read the chapter yourself to verify what I just posted. 

• Read it as written. 
• Accept it as written.
• Believe it as written. 

Suspect anyone and everyone who makes scripture say things it does not actually stated. Be as critical of what they claim as you are of my claims. 

I Disagree, it states "Then" shall be great tribulation

Matthew 24:21KJV

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Total and complete poppycock.

Let's take this verse

Matthew 24

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Are you telling me that you think that the great tribulation has happened? There will never be such tribulation as has already happened? If  you think that, you are certainly in error.

Matthew 24

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Did the Lord return already in the time of the early disciples? Not hardly.

The things that Jesus talks about in Matthew 24 have not happened, none of it. Matthew 24 is about the end of the age. The first six seals are what is being discussed, starting with false Christs and ending with the return of Jesus at the 6th seal. He may have been talking to the disciples, but the message is for those Jews on earth during the great tribulation and the end of the age.

We agree light Matthew 24 is "Future"

The great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 is future, and the likes of World War II with 70 million casualties isnt comparable to what's coming in the future

Josheb is Preterist in his eschatology, and yes they believe Daniel's AOD and Great Tribulation took place in 1st Century Jerusalem in Romes destruction, namely 70AD

Preterism in 70AD fulfillment is a farce, just as a pre-trib rapture is a farce

Edited January 20, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

According to Paul the ends of the ages came about in the first century. 

No they didnt, Daniel's AOD, And the Great Tribulation are future events unfulfilled

Preterist 70AD fulfillment is a farce

[missmuffet]

Pre trib, mid trib, post trib. Time will tell.

[Hopefully]

Is this verse related to this topic?

“Their evil teaching will spread like a sickness inside the body. Hymenaeus and Philetus are men like that. They have left the true teaching.
 

They say that the day when people will be raised from death has already come and gone. And they are destroying the faith of some people.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:17-18‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Is pre tribulation and “the day when people will be raised from death the same thing?
 

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Tell me where you see anyone in the 21st century mentioned in Matthew 24.

v. 4 - Watch out, that no one deceives you.  For many will come in my name claiming, "I am the Christ", and will deceive many.  You will hear wars and rumors of wars, but see to it you are not alarmed.  Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.  Nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.  There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.  This is still ongoing as we speak, so it cannot be in or around 70 AD.

v. 8 - All these are the beginning of birth pains.  Then you will be handed over to be persecuted. These birth pains are going on now.  Earthquakes in various places, not known in or around 70 AD. But now, during our lifetime, there are daily updates on earthquakes, all over this globe.  Updates on famines throughout the world at this time.  So the "You" is not to or for the Disciples, but for those of us who see things happening.  I don't see anything in Matt 24 except the Temples stones being toppled in v.2.  The only thing applied to 70 AD.

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

The text plainly states Jesus was speaking to the disciples sitting with him. He was talking to them. He was talking about them. He was telling them about things they would see and hear

What were their questions?  When, and What.  Christ was not telling them about things they would see and hear. A False premise.  That is you putting your twist into the Scriptures.  The birth pains are going on Now,  Not in the 1st Century.

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Jesus is not talking to just any Jews. He is talking to his disciples. He is talking to his disciples about his disciples. It is his disciples who are to flee to the mountains. And history tells us they did exactly that. No record of a single Christian being killed in 70AD. 

The thing is, All of Judea is to flee into the wilderness.  Scripture states, those in Judea.  Not Christians who reside in Judea.  That is you adding your take to Scripture, Josephus was wrong.

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

Yes, I understand that. The problem is you're disagreeing with God's word, not me. God's word plainly states, "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name."

The thing is the Apostle John died of old age, he was not killed.  And you say the "you" here is the Disciples.  Jesus missed one then.  I don't think so.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, Josheb said:

Nice red herring. I did not say anything about Daniel's AoD or the Great tribulation in that post. What I said was, "According to Paul, the ends of the ages came about in the first century." No mention of any AoD. No mention of any tribulation, either great or not so great. Paul said the ends of the ages had come in the first century. I have, can, and will continue to prove it as often as necessary. 

1 Corinthians 10:6-13
Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.  Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and stood up to play." Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.  Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.  Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.  Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.  Therefore, let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.  No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

Paul plainly stated, "upon whom the ends of the ages have come".

lol. All I have done is pointed you to what is plainly stated in scripture. Not once have I mentioned preterism. Whether preterism is a farce or not the fact remains Paul wrote what he wrote and I, not you read it as written, accept it as written, and believe it as written. The ends of the ages have come upon Paul and the first century Christians in Corinth.  It's not the beginning of the ages; it was the ends of the ages. That is what the text plainly states. I'm not appealing to preterism, or any other interpretive or eschatological schema. I am reading, accepting, and believing scripture as written. 

 

Not a single one of you across the last for threads have proved otherwise. 

 

I remind everyone of the TOS: Keep the posts about the posts, not the posters. 

 

I also remind everyone this op is about the rapture propaganda of the 1970s and 80s, "A Thief in the Night Series." None of that "rapture propaganda" of the 70s and 80s turned out to be true. Everyone who believed it was either a false teacher or a product of false teaching. I was once one of them. 

Then I read my Bible. 

You have, can, and will proven nothing, you Preterist eschatology isnt found in scripture

The day and hour no man knows is "Future" and this represents the Lords return

A "Future" Generation that will be eyewitnesses of this return, as you teach and believe this has been fulfilled in the 1st century

The Preterist Eschatology is a rubber ruler, the signs weren't seen in the 1st century, and the Lord hasn't returned, "Future" event unfulfilled

Matthew 24:33-36KJV

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Edited January 21, 2022 by truth7t7