truth7t7 Posted January 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) I'm trying to understand your system of belief, so far you haven't hid this Once Again Do you believe in the trinity? 1 John 5:7KJV 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Do you believe Jesus Christ is "God"? John 1:1KJV 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Edited January 27, 2022 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted January 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, t7t7. What difference does it make how I believe about the Trinity? Don't MIX UP WHAT THE PERSONS OF THE TRINITY SAID! I'm trying to understand your system of belief, so far you haven't hid this Once Again Do you believe in the trinity? 1 John 5:7KJV 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Do you believe Jesus Christ is "God"? John 1:1KJV 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Edited January 27, 2022 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted January 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, t7t7. What difference does it make how I believe about the Trinity? Don't MIX UP WHAT THE PERSONS OF THE TRINITY SAID! I'm trying to understand your system of belief, so far you haven't hid this, simple yes/no Once Again Do you believe in the trinity? 1 John 5:7KJV 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Do you believe Jesus Christ is "God"? John 1:1KJV 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Edited January 27, 2022 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted January 28, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,621 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,460 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted January 28, 2022 10 hours ago, truth7t7 said: I'm trying to understand your system of belief, so far you haven't hid this Once Again Do you believe in the trinity? 1 John 5:7KJV 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Do you believe Jesus Christ is "God"? John 1:1KJV 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Shalom, t7t7. Insistent much? This isn't the place to air this. However, if you'd like to start a thread, I'd be happy to share my belief-system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted January 28, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, t7t7. Insistent much? This isn't the place to air this. However, if you'd like to start a thread, I'd be happy to share my belief-system. I started this thread, and it's the place to discuss biblical topics, no need to start a thread, you have full permission to respond, not that its needed, were the only ones currently in discussion Once Again I'm trying to understand your system of belief, so far you haven't hid this, simple yes/no 1.) Do you believe in the trinity? 1 John 5:7KJV 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 2.) Do you believe Jesus Christ is "God"? John 1:1KJV 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Edited January 28, 2022 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted January 28, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,621 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,460 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted January 28, 2022 11 hours ago, truth7t7 said: I started this thread, and it's the place to discuss biblical topics, no need to start a thread, you have full permission to respond, not that its needed, were the only ones currently in discussion Once Again I'm trying to understand your system of belief, so far you haven't hid this, simple yes/no 1.) Do you believe in the trinity? 1 John 5:7KJV 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Shalom, t7t7. As you wish. Yes, I believe in the Trinity, as described in the Scriptures. No, I do not believe in the Trinity as most people's theology demands. Furthermore, 1 John 5:7 was added at some point in time, probably by the early Roman Catholic Church no earlier than the 10th Century, to support their theology. (VERY backward thinking!) In Evidence for Christianity, a Q&A gives this: Quote Question: Is it true that 1 john 5 :7 was added later and was not in Greek manuscripts until the 1500s? Please explain this to me. If so why is it in King James Version? If this is the case, has the Bible been subject to changes by human hands? Answer: Yes, this is true. There was an interpolation to I John 5 (an interpolation is a parenthetical comment which is presumably added in the margin which is later incorporated into the text). Actually, the date you quote is not correct. The interpolation came a few centuries earler, in about the tenth century one manuscript contained this addition (there are three that testify on the earth: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit), and one manuscript from the thirteenth century has it in the text, but other than that, all direct evidence comes from the 16th century. Does this mean that the Bible has been subject to change? The answer is NO! Here is why. Although someone put this addition in the margin in what was presumably a sincere attempt to help readers of his manuscript understand 1 John 5:6-7, we know for a fact that it was not in the original. There is no confusion about this, as the evidence is a slam dunk. Here is the bottom line, all of us can know for certain that this was not in the original. Therefore “the Bible” is certain with regard to this. Because we have literally thousands of Greek manuscripts, minor slips of the pen and even the rare occasion when a good-hearted person made the mistake of making a purposeful small change in a manuscript, with all the evidence, we can with great confidence produce the original and, therefore, the original Greek text is known with great certainty. When you read your English Bible, you will find remarks in the footnotes informing you of such issues when they are significant, so you can judge for yourself. About the King James Version, this is an inferior translation by today’s standards. It is not that the committee who made this translation did a poor job, but because when they did their work, they only had at their disposal about a dozen Greek manuscripts, none of which were older than 1200 AD, along with Erasmus’s scholarly Greek text. These manuscripts included the interpolated passage in 1 John. We now have more than 5000 Greek manuscripts, including hundreds from before the interpolation found entrance into the Greek New Testament. This mistake in the King James Version does not represent a change in the Bible that we read from the original simply because we have the evidence proving it was not in the original. I taught a class on this topic this Fall, and go into much more detail than I do here on this topic. I suggest you look at the notes and, if you have time, listen to the audio, which is available for free at my web site. Just do a search for the word reliability or go to https://evidenceforchristianity.org/class-series-in-san-diego-the-reliability-and-inspiration-of-the-bible/ See Evidence for Christianity. There's no textual proof for 1 John 5:7. Therefore, there's no proof here for the Trinity. Instead, we see evidences for Three Persons in a number of ways. Do they all have the same status and/or attributes? No. But, they all are indeed Persons who are part of God. The Father is the God to whom Yeshua` prayed, and Yeshua` checked constantly for His Father's will. The Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God) was the Comforter whom Yeshua` asked His Father to send when Yeshua` went away. 11 hours ago, truth7t7 said: 2.) Do you believe Jesus Christ is "God"? John 1:1KJV 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. You have to keep reading ... John 1:14 (KJV) 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. No, when the Word was made flesh, He became the MAN, Yeshua`, the Messiah of God. He most often referred to Himself as "the Son of man," meaning "a true human being," but a few times He was called "the Son of God." He is no longer God the Word; He was (and still is) the "SON of God." He no longer has the attribute of omnipresence; He is now LIMITED to where He can be! This is how He could "ascend to the sky" and promise that He would return. It's also important to note that He "became flesh" in the same way that Adam was made a "living soul": Genesis 2:7 (KJV) 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The Hebrew words it this way: וַיִּיצֶר֩ יְהוָ֨ה אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶת־הָֽאָדָ֗ם עָפָר֙ מִן־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה וַיִּפַּ֥ח בְּאַפָּ֖יו נִשְׁמַ֣ת חַיִּ֑ים וַֽיְהִ֥י הָֽאָדָ֖ם לְנֶ֥פֶשׁ חַיָּֽה׃ Transliterated, this becomes: 7 Vayyiytser YHWH Elohiym et-haa'aadaam `aafaar min-haa'adaamaah vayyipach b'apaayow nishmat chayyiym vayhiy haa'aadaam l-nefesh chayyaah: Translated word-for-word, this becomes: 7 Vayyiytser = 7 And-formed YHWH = YHWH; "the LORD" Elohiym = God et- = (the following word is a direct object) haa'aadaam = the-red-[man] `aafaar = of-dust min- = from haa'adaamaah = the-red-[ground] vayyipach = and-puffed b'apaayow = into-his-nostrils nishmat = a-puff chayyiym = of-living-things vayhiy = and-became haa'aadaam = the-red-[man] l-nefesh = into-an-air-breathing-creature chayyaah: = living: Putting this all together in English word order, 7 And YHWH God formed the red [man] of dust from the red [ground] and puffed into his nostrils a puff of living things and the red [man] became into a living, air-breathing creature: Note that this doesn't say "YHWH God formed the BODY of the red man"; it says "YHWH God formed the red MAN!" And, the word that was translated as "soul," "nefesh," means "an air-breathing creature." That word "nefesh" (often written "nephesh") comes from the verb form "naafash," meaning "to breathe (air)." Thus, there is NO such thing as an "immaterial part of man" that is called "a soul"; the "soul" is a misnomer for the fact that the man, which IS a body, is still breathing! Even the word "spirit" comes from the Hebrew word "ruwach" which means "a wind" or "a forceful breath; a blowing!" So, when the Word "became flesh," He too was MADE into a body; He did NOT "take on a body." He was NOT "put into a body!" He BECAME a body! Thus, the word "incarnate" is a wrong word to use for the Word becoming a man; He was not put "in-flesh," which is what "incarnate" means; He BECAME flesh! That's a HUGE difference! So, I, in fact, DO believe in the Trinity: The Father YHWH God, the Son of God who is a man and who was the first One raised to life as a glorified body, and the Comforter. 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truth7t7 Posted January 28, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, t7t7. As you wish. Yes, I believe in the Trinity, as described in the Scriptures. No, I do not believe in the Trinity as most people's theology demands. Furthermore, 1 John 5:7 was added at some point in time, probably by the early Roman Catholic Church no earlier than the 10th Century, to support their theology. (VERY backward thinking!) In Evidence for Christianity, a Q&A gives this: See Evidence for Christianity. There's no textual proof for 1 John 5:7. Therefore, there's no proof here for the Trinity. Instead, we see evidences for Three Persons in a number of ways. Do they all have the same status and/or attributes? No. But, they all are indeed Persons who are part of God. The Father is the God to whom Yeshua` prayed, and Yeshua` checked constantly for His Father's will. The Ruwach haQodesh Elohiym (the Holy Spirit of God) was the Comforter whom Yeshua` asked His Father to send when Yeshua` went away. You have to keep reading ... John 1:14 (KJV) 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. No, when the Word was made flesh, He became the MAN, Yeshua`, the Messiah of God. He most often referred to Himself as "the Son of man," meaning "a true human being," but a few times He was called "the Son of God." He is no longer God the Word; He was (and still is) the "SON of God." He no longer has the attribute of omnipresence; He is now LIMITED to where He can be! This is how He could "ascend to the sky" and promise that He would return. It's also important to note that He "became flesh" in the same way that Adam was made a "living soul": Genesis 2:7 (KJV) 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The Hebrew words it this way: וַיִּיצֶר֩ יְהוָ֨ה אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶת־הָֽאָדָ֗ם עָפָר֙ מִן־הָ֣אֲדָמָ֔ה וַיִּפַּ֥ח בְּאַפָּ֖יו נִשְׁמַ֣ת חַיִּ֑ים וַֽיְהִ֥י הָֽאָדָ֖ם לְנֶ֥פֶשׁ חַיָּֽה׃ Transliterated, this becomes: 7 Vayyiytser YHWH Elohiym et-haa'aadaam `aafaar min-haa'adaamaah vayyipach b'apaayow nishmat chayyiym vayhiy haa'aadaam l-nefesh chayyaah: Translated word-for-word, this becomes: 7 Vayyiytser = 7 And-formed YHWH = YHWH; "the LORD" Elohiym = God et- = (the following word is a direct object) haa'aadaam = the-red-[man] `aafaar = of-dust min- = from haa'adaamaah = the-red-[ground] vayyipach = and-puffed b'apaayow = into-his-nostrils nishmat = a-puff chayyiym = of-living-things vayhiy = and-became haa'aadaam = the-red-[man] l-nefesh = into-an-air-breathing-creature chayyaah: = living: Putting this all together in English word order, 7 And YHWH God formed the red [man] of dust from the red [ground] and puffed into his nostrils a puff of living things and the red [man] became into a living, air-breathing creature: Note that this doesn't say "YHWH God formed the BODY of the red man"; it says "YHWH God formed the red MAN!" And, the word that was translated as "soul," "nefesh," means "an air-breathing creature." That word "nefesh" (often written "nephesh") comes from the verb form "naafash," meaning "to breathe (air)." Thus, there is NO such thing as an "immaterial part of man" that is called "a soul"; the "soul" is a misnomer for the fact that the man, which IS a body, is still breathing! Even the word "spirit" comes from the Hebrew word "ruwach" which means "a wind" or "a forceful breath; a blowing!" So, when the Word "became flesh," He too was MADE into a body; He did NOT "take on a body." He was NOT "put into a body!" He BECAME a body! Thus, the word "incarnate" is a wrong word to use for the Word becoming a man; He was not put "in-flesh," which is what "incarnate" means; He BECAME flesh! That's a HUGE difference! So, I, in fact, DO believe in the Trinity: The Father YHWH God, the Son of God who is a man and who was the first One raised to life as a glorified body, and the Comforter. As it stands: 1.) You dont believe in "Hell" upon the wickeds death 2.) You dont believe in the trinity as the traditional church creed teaches 3.) You dont believe Jesus Christ is God Your theology is that of a "Jehovahs Witness" inseparable Do you also believe a select 144,000 will be chosen to serve at Gods throne? Edited January 28, 2022 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted January 28, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,621 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,460 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted January 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, truth7t7 said: As it stands 1.) you dont believe in "Hell" upon the wickeds death 2.) You dont believe in the trinity as the traditional church creed teaches 3.) You dont believe Jesus Christ is God You theology is that of a Jehovahs Witness inseparable Do you also believe a select 144,000 will be chosen to serve at Gods throne? Shalom, t7t7. Yes, I believe that 144,000 children of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe, will be selected as special servants of God. I also believe that there will be a "great multitude" of others who will be selected from other nations, as well. Please don't try to "pigeon-hole" me as something I'm not. I am NOT one of "Jehovah's Witnesses" as they describe themselves. If anything, I'm a missionary TO the JWs! I'm closest in what I believe to a Messianic Jew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted January 28, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, t7t7. Yes, I believe that 144,000 children of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe, will be selected as special servants of God. I also believe that there will be a "great multitude" of others who will be selected from other nations, as well. Please don't try to "pigeon-hole" me as something I'm not. I am NOT one of "Jehovah's Witnesses" as they describe themselves. If anything, I'm a missionary TO the JWs! I'm closest in what I believe to a Messianic Jew. I asked specifically if 144,000 will be chosen to serve at "Gods Throne" you didn't directly answer this, 144,000 at "Gods Throne"? Edited January 28, 2022 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted January 28, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, t7t7. Yes, I believe that 144,000 children of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe, will be selected as special servants of God. I also believe that there will be a "great multitude" of others who will be selected from other nations, as well. Please don't try to "pigeon-hole" me as something I'm not. I am NOT one of "Jehovah's Witnesses" as they describe themselves. If anything, I'm a missionary TO the JWs! I'm closest in what I believe to a Messianic Jew. As It Stands: 1.) You dont believe in "Hell" upon the wickeds death 2.) You dont believe in the trinity as the traditional church creeds/confessions teach 3.) You dont believe Jesus Christ is God 4.) You believe 144,000 will be selected servants at Gods throne Your theology is that of a "Jehovahs Witness" inseparable It appears that the watchtower and tract society has had great influence in their missionary work Jesus Christ Is The Lord Edited January 28, 2022 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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