Where is the Lord`s Own Throne?

[Marilyn C]

On 2/12/2022 at 2:10 AM, AdHoc said:

 

For this problematic planet, God built a totally new creature called MAN. He instructed the man FIRST to eat from a certain Tree, and then gave him the duty of first SUBDUING the earth, and then RULING it. It was expected that the man, built in the image and likeness of God, and having taken in the fruit of God's Life intrinsically, would subdue and rule as if God was subduing and ruling. Die to disobedience, this man refused the duties and was led into a pact with the previous Ruler - an angel.

God is very long-suffering, but He will not indefinitely leave a festering wound in His universe, so in due time He sent His Son in the form of a Man, to recover His plan. The Nation that was supposed to be instrumental in this, Israel, refused both the King-Messiah and His offer of the Kingdom. The King - Jesus, then retires to heaven to prepare another people for the task, for God is all-mighty and His councils cannot be overthrown. To give His Son Jesus the best conditions for achieving His plan, God sets Him in His Throne in the highest place ans Seat of authority.

In due time, when the New Man (corporate) is ready, God gives the command to His Son to set in motion heavenly government on earth. For this, our Lord Jesus receives His OWN throne. This throne carries the authority of the Father for bringing His will to the Planet EARTH. This throne of Jesus, though it carries the full authority of His father's throne, it remains subordinate to the Father's. Thus, when He is crowned and sat on His throne, it is carried out in heaven. Thus, the man Jesus, leaves His Father's throne "ABOVE the highest heavens" for a throne in heaven. This is the scene in Chapter 4 of Revelation. It is the place and time of the coronation of Jesus NOT for building the New Man as He did from His Father's throne, but for re-taking Governorship of the EARTH.

 

I see we wont agree on everything but can have a discussion on some things. So here I would like to comment on the `times of restoration.`

(God the Father) may send Jesus Christ...whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3: 20 & 21)

We know that there was never another kingpriest after Lucifer was cast out till the Lord at His coronation, as you said.

Job says that `the heavens are not pure in His sight.` (Job 15: 15) referring to the atmospheric and Universal heavens. And this is the area of the heavens that Satan and his fallen angels have usurped power. (Eph. 4: 12)

Then we know that the earth, as you said, is in need of restoration - rulership and planet.

Thus I see that the `restoration of all things spoken by the prophets includes more than just the earth and its rulership.

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I see we wont agree on everything but can have a discussion on some things. So here I would like to comment on the `times of restoration.`

(God the Father) may send Jesus Christ...whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3: 20 & 21)

We know that there was never another kingpriest after Lucifer was cast out till the Lord at His coronation, as you said.

Job says that `the heavens are not pure in His sight.` (Job 15: 15) referring to the atmospheric and Universal heavens. And this is the area of the heavens that Satan and his fallen angels have usurped power. (Eph. 4: 12)

Then we know that the earth, as you said, is in need of restoration - rulership and planet.

Thus I see that the `restoration of all things spoken by the prophets includes more than just the earth and its rulership.

OK. Without particularly objecting, here is my understanding of this subject. But first we must define "king-priest".

A "king" is a sovereign ruler of a sphere, land, or entity. It seems that Biblically, God likes Local Government. "Let THEM rule" - that is, each has a dedicated kingdom, and this seems to be the city or town (e.g. Luke 19:17-19). There are exceptions. Jesus will rule ALL things created. David will rule ALL Israel (Jer.30:9). The Twelve Apostles will rule whole Tribes.

A "Priest" is a man (or woman) whose duty it is (i) to serve God, (ii) to serve in God's House, (iii) to bring God to man, and (iv) bring man to God. The High Priest is a priest who does not need a mediator and can approach God directly.

There were a number of men who exercised BOTH functions, but either death, or the change of economy ended one or both functions. The most notable "King-Priest" besides our Lord Jesus is Melchizedek. But Abraham, Joseph of Egypt and Jacob exercised either one OR the other. Moses was king-priest until God's House, the Tabernacle, was complete and then he was banned from the Priesthood. In the economy of service to God's House God made a new line of priests via Levi and specifically Aaron.

Lately, since resurrection day, we are King-Priests (1st Pet.2), but until Christ removes Gentile rule, we only exercise our role as priests. Because our Lord must be preeminent in all things, no Christian can be crowned before Jesus. I know you might object and give the 24 Elders of heaven as an argument, but I can show that they are not the Church, but not now.

When our Lord Jesus came He said that the Kingdom OF Heaven was at hand. His prayer was, "Thy (God's) Kingdom COME" (Mat.6:10). That means that the Kingdom had NOT COME. This is problematic because He also said that if He, by the finger of God, cast out demons, the Kingdom HAD COME (Lk.11:20). And this is compounded by the fact that He also said that the Kingdom was IN SOME (Lk.17:20-21). This difficulty is easily solved if we apply the definition I set forth above.

1. Gentile rule was still in place so the Kingdom had not yet come to EARTH
2. The reason for Gentile rule was Israel's sins (Lev.26, Deut.28), and so our Lord FIRST attacked this. His attack was two-pronged; (i) to be a propitiation because the score must be settled with a righteous God, and (ii) He attacked the rebel heavenly principalities - not the Romans. Thus He did not fight with flesh and blood BUT He ruled the power of the spirit-world. He could claim this sphere as under His rule WHILE HE WAS ON EARTH.
3. But Israel refused His works and called Him an emissary of the king of principalities - Satan. While he was on earth then, He was King over principalities but not men. Jesus called for faith in Him. To those who had faith, Jesus came to dwell IN them. Thus, He was King over those that believe (Rev.1:9)., but not the unbeliever. This was a Kingdom in the spirits of men who embraced Him.

So all three statements are correct within their contexts,. The only remaining sphere where Jesus must be crowned - is over men. This He does at Armageddon

Now, having established the problem area as EARTH, what of heaven? It is not that there is no problem in heaven, for Satan, being a heavenly being, and the one third of angels who joined him, also heavenly beings, has defiled heaven. But the question we address in your posting is not if heaven is defiled or not, but does Satan exercise power there? The short answer is NO! Would our Lord Jesus pray for an incomplete Kingdom to COME to earth? Or, is there any area in heaven where God’s will is not done? No. Our Lord prays; "thy will be done on earth AS IT IS in heaven!" Would Christ pray for God’s will, even though not complete, to come to earth? The answer is that God’s will in heaven is complete - as is His reign.

1st Kings 22, Job 1 & 2 and God’s THRONE show that there is not problem to God’s rule in heaven. Satan is ruled by God in heaven. He must seek permission to act.

The problems start in the air - one of the environs of the EARTH. It is there that angelic activity is trying to thwart God, as seen by the storms in the gospels. Jesus purposes to go over Lake Galilee. The wind is whipped up to oppose His will. The boat carrying His disciples is put in danger of swamping and sinking. If Satan and his angels cannot stop Jesus on land, they will try with air and sea - the three areas given to Adam to SUBDUE (Gen.1:26-28).

There is no problem with the Kingdom IN Heaven. There is no stopping God’s will IN heaven. But on earth and its environs of sea and sky there is angelic activities against the will of God. And since the demons dwell in the sea, that area too is to be fought for. Then, there is the “arrangement of things” among MEN - not in heaven - BUT ON EARTH. Corruption, lies and unsavory politics are present on earth continuously.

The need is not for another conquering King IN heaven - BUT ON EARTH.

[Spiros]

On 2/10/2022 at 6:09 PM, Marilyn C said:

Where is the Lord`s Own Throne?

We know from God`s word that the Lord has a throne on the earth, in the New Jerusalem and also in the highest realm. The word `throne,` indicates authority. So where is the Lord`s own Throne, His seat of Power and authority?

I believe God`s word tells us that the Father has set His Son on Mount Zion in the angelic realm, the highest heaven.

`I have set my King on my holy hill of Mount Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6)

And we see in that this Mount Zion is in the angelic realm.

`you have come to Mount Zion and to...angels.....God ...to Jesus.` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24)

 

We are given the details of the Lord`s own throne in the highest heaven.

`Behold, a throne set in heaven and one sat on the throne. And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance;...` (Rev. 4: 2 & 3)

This is the throne the Father has SET for His Son. It is for a kingpriest. The throne represents kingship while the stones represent priesthood, for they are the first and last, incorporating all the others, on the High priest`s breastplate.

The jasper stone was for the tribe of Naphtali, (Ex. 28: 20, last stone, Num. 10: 27, last tribe). The meaning is prevailed, (Gen. 30: 8).

The sardius stone was for the tribe of Judah, (Ex. 28: 17, first stone, Num. 10: 14, the first tribe). The meaning is to use the hand, power and authority. It is from this tribe that the kings came.

 

Here are the two meanings - kingship and prevailing, conqueror.

`Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.` (Rev. 5: 5)

Thus we see that the Father has set His Son on Mount Zion as the highest KingPriest, who prevailed and conquered and thus is worthy to bring judgment.

 

There is more to discuss however that is a start. What can you contribute?

Hello Marlyn,

 

Jerusalem – mount Zion is a symbolic mountain since an altitude in the area of 2,542 feet is in reality not a true mountain but rather a hill.

 

The throne of God being in heaven thus reflects to a place on Earth which is the closest to heaven. This can only be one place, the tallest mountain on Earth. It seems thus to be encoded in this way in Greek. We add up the isopsephy values of the words for throne(thronos: ΘΡΟΝΟΣ) and God(theos: ΘΕΟΣ) in nominative:

 

ΘΡΟΝΟΣ + ΘΕΟΣ = (9+100+70+50+70+200)+(9+5+70+200) = 783

 

Another way is to use the accusative of the phrase “throne (of) God” as “throno theou (ΘΡΟΝΟ ΘΕΟΥ)”:

 

ΘΡΟΝΟ ΘΕΟΥ = (9+100+70+50+70)+(9+5+70+400) = 783

 

A third case uses one of the two forms of the name Zeus. In ancient Greece the forms Zeus and Dias were used. The genitive forms were Zenos and Dios. According to Wikipedia:

 

Quote

Zeus is the Greek continuation of *Di̯ēus, the name of the Proto-Indo-European god of the daytime sky, also called *Dyeus ph2tēr ("Sky Father").

 

Thus the phrase “Zeus’s throne” as “thronos Dios ” – nominative (ΘΡΟΝΟΣ ΔΙΟΣ) is:

 

ΘΡΟΝΟΣ ΔΙΟΣ = (9+100+70+50+70+200)+(4+10+70+200) = 783

 

The question thus that arises is: What does the number 783 mean? It encodes the latitude of the tallest mountain on Earth, mount Everest in the Himalaya mountain range. You just compute the square root of this number and assign it to the degrees angle unit.

 

Square root(783) = 27.982

Mount Everest latitude = 27.988056°

 

So the throne of Zeus was not on top of mount Olympus but rather on top of mount Everest? According to Wikipedia:

Quote

Zeus is the sky and thunder god in ancient Greek religion, who rules as king of the gods of Mount Olympus.

 

In ancient Greek religion and mythology, the twelve Olympians are the major deities of the Greek pantheon, commonly considered to be Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Ares, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Hermes, and either Hestia or Dionysus. They were called Olympians because, according to tradition, they resided on Mount Olympus.

 

But if we compute the isopsephy value of the phrase for “throne of Zeus” – nominative as “thronos Zenos” we see that is equal to that of the word for twelve as “dodeca” (ΔΩΔΕΚΑ):

 

ΘΡΟΝΟΣ ΖΗΝΟΣ = (9+100+70+50+70+200)+(7+8+50+70+200) = 834

ΔΩΔΕΚΑ = 4+800+4+5+20+1 = 834

 

Thus the 12 gods relate to the 12 Apostles, to the 12 tribes of Israel, the 12 precious stones, and to the 12 months of the year(see Revelation). They also relate to the size of New Jerusalem which is 12,000 furlongs. If we use the name of God as Jesus or Jehovah we can find more information regarding the throne of God and how it relates to places on Earth, among which are Jerusalem and "New Jerusalem". We therefore have inhabited places and mountains, places near heaven, physically or spiritually.  

 

Best Regards

Spiros

Edited February 14, 2022 by Spiros

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, Spiros said:

Hello Marlyn,

 

Jerusalem – mount Zion is a symbolic mountain since an altitude in the area of 2,542 feet is in reality not a true mountain but rather a hill.

 

 

Hi Spiros,

Interesting comments there. However I just stick to God`s word. Now the word mount in Heb. is `har,` as shortened from `harar,`meaning `to loom up,` a mountain, a hill. 

 

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, AdHoc said:

OK. Without particularly objecting, here is my understanding of this subject. But first we must define "king-priest".

 

There is no problem with the Kingdom IN Heaven. There is no stopping God’s will IN heaven. But on earth and its environs of sea and sky there is angelic activities against the will of God. And since the demons dwell in the sea, that area too is to be fought for. Then, there is the “arrangement of things” among MEN - not in heaven - BUT ON EARTH. Corruption, lies and unsavory politics are present on earth continuously.

The need is not for another conquering King IN heaven - BUT ON EARTH.

Hi Ad Hoc,

Thank you for taking the time to reply in such detail. It was a very good read. Good idea to address `Kingpriest,` and its meaning. I agree with your comments there. Also I see that the believers, the Body of Christ, kingpriests must be crowned when the Lord has His coronation.

Now I would like to point out the different `heavens`  - 3 areas.

1.     The highest, (where are the angels)

2.     The Universal heavens, (sun, moon & stars)

3.      The Atmospheric heavens. (birds fly, aeroplanes)

You do acknowledge these in your comments however it seems you have missed a vital point. When Lucifer was cast out of the highest heaven and thus was stripped of his kingpriestly position, there was never anyone or any angel that VISIBLY took his place.

Now we know from Col. 1: 16 that God made those positions of authority and thus He will have His VISIBLE rulership in that highest area of heaven.

Yes we know that God rules over all however His desire is that all things, all rulership comes under His Son, in heaven and on the earth, VISIBLY. (Eph. 1: 10)

And that is the rulership that the Lord is referring to `Thy Kingdom/rule come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven..` It is God the Father`s rule through His Son from the highest, that is to come.

So it remains for us to see when the Lord who is the worthy one, is actually VISIBLY crowned in His glorified body with His Body of believers also. (Rev. 3: 21)

And that to me is the start of the `times of restoration of all things.` God `setting` His VISIBLE righteous rulership in the highest and then the Worthy One proceeding to put down all rule and authority and power. (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

Would you like to comment on that?

 

[AdHoc]

7 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Now I would like to point out the different `heavens`  - 3 areas.

1.     The highest, (where are the angels)

2.     The Universal heavens, (sun, moon & stars)

3.      The Atmospheric heavens. (birds fly, aeroplanes)

You do acknowledge these in your comments however it seems you have missed a vital point. When Lucifer was cast out of the highest heaven and thus was stripped of his kingpriestly position, there was never anyone or any angel that VISIBLY took his place.

You'll have to give some scriptures. I'm not ducking your questions but be must discuss on a common ground. But I dare say that I have never come across scripture that verify your statements (if you take them one by one). I know you have a belief and this is set by your background, but we must have scriptures that say precisely what you maintain.

 

14 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Now we know from Col. 1: 16 that God made those positions of authority and thus He will have His VISIBLE rulership in that highest area of heaven.

Yes we know that God rules over all however His desire is that all things, all rulership comes under His Son, in heaven and on the earth, VISIBLY. (Eph. 1: 10)

And that is the rulership that the Lord is referring to `Thy Kingdom/rule come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven..` It is God the Father`s rule through His Son from the highest, that is to come.

Consider this. Hebrews alludes to the Tabernacle in heaven. If this tabernacle is the pattern which Moses had to follow, what is VISIBLE? Certainly not the Holy of Holies where the Immortal King dwells. It was VEILED. If Lucifer was  THE "Covering Cherub" God remained "covered".

What IS VISIBLE is Ezekiel's Temple which reflects Christ's accomplishments and has EMANUEL dwelling in it - in Jerusalem.

21 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

And that is the rulership that the Lord is referring to `Thy Kingdom/rule come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven..` It is God the Father`s rule through His Son from the highest, that is to come.

So it remains for us to see when the Lord who is the worthy one, is actually VISIBLY crowned in His glorified body with His Body of believers also. (Rev. 3: 21)

And that to me is the start of the `times of restoration of all things.` God `setting` His VISIBLE righteous rulership in the highest and then the Worthy One proceeding to put down all rule and authority and power. (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

Would you like to comment on that?

I understand your quest. But VISIBLE to WHO? If Israel has their Land as an "everlasting possession" with its borders, and the Overcoming Christians are kings of cities (Lk.19:17-19), and the Nations are ruled with a rod of iron, WHO is in the highest heaven to VIEW this Kingdom and its King? Consider the implications.

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You'll have to give some scriptures. I'm not ducking your questions but be must discuss on a common ground. But I dare say that I have never come across scripture that verify your statements (if you take them one by one). I know you have a belief and this is set by your background, but we must have scriptures that say precisely what you maintain.

 

 

Hi Ad Hoc,

I agree we must always go by what God`s word says. I have written my comments to your questions on 3 posts as it is quite long.

The different areas of heaven.

1.The highest heaven.

`Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God.` (Deut. 10: 14)

`To Him who rides on the heaven of heavens,..` (Ps. 68: 33)

`...such a one was caught up to the third heaven.` (2 Cor. 12: 2)

 

2.Celestial heaven.

`Then God made two great light; the greater to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. He set them in the firmament of the heavens and to give light on the earth. ` (Gen. 1: 16 & 17)

 

3.Atmospheric heaven.

`Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that is would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years. And he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.` (James 5: 17 & 18)

 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

Consider this. Hebrews alludes to the Tabernacle in heaven. If this tabernacle is the pattern which Moses had to follow, what is VISIBLE? Certainly not the Holy of Holies where the Immortal King dwells. It was VEILED. If Lucifer was  THE "Covering Cherub" God remained "covered".

What IS VISIBLE is Ezekiel's Temple which reflects Christ's accomplishments and has EMANUEL dwelling in it - in Jerusalem.

 

You said - What IS VISIBLE is Ezekiel's Temple which reflects Christ's accomplishments and has EMANUEL dwelling in it - in Jerusalem.

My answer - `And above the firmament over their heads was the likeness of a throne in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne was a likeness with the appearance of a man high above it......like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.` (Ez.1: 26 & 28)

I only wrote some of the vision but all of it is spectacular and reminds us of the vision John had in Rev. 1: 13 - 18, & 4: 2 - 9. The `living creatures` are Christ`s life and ministries that uphold the holiness of God.

The 4 living creatures are Christ`s Spirit of life, shown separately as 4 but in reality blended majestically into one Royal Divine Person, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Christ the King –  (Lion) Christ the Sacrifice (Heir) –  (Calf)

Christ the Mediator –  (Man) Christ the Creator –  (Eagle)

For Christ to fulfill God`s plan, His covenant to man, He needs to function in each area.

Christ is given the ultimate authority to rule, (Lion)

Christ humbled Himself to be the ultimate sacrifice, (Calf).

Christ is both God & man to be the Mediator of both, (Man).

Christ has ultimate power to create all things new, (Eagle). 

 

For Ezekiel this vision enabled him to remind Israel (in exile) that God would ultimately restore them. However to us reading with all of God`s word we realise that God fulfils His promises and that even in a vision we see the Christ as He would eventually be on His own throne.

 

`In visions of God He took me into the land of Israel; and set me on a very high mountain; on it towards the south was something like the structure of a city....` (Ez. 40: 2)

 

`Afterwards He brought me to the gate, the gate that faces towards the east. And behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east. His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory....The visions were like the vision which I saw by the River Chebar...

.Son of man, this is the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever...... and behold the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord....` (Ez. 43: 1 -4  &  7)

 

`the priests, the Levites....shall come near me to minister to me; and they shall stand before me to offer to me the fat and the blood, says the Lord God. They shall enter my sanctuary, and they shall come near my table to minister to me, and they shall keep my charge.` Ez. 44: 15 & 16)

 

`Behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing....They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain.` (Isa. 65: 18 & 25)

`then the Lord will create above every dwelling-place of Mount Zion, and above her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night. For over all the glory there will be a covering.` (Isa. 4: 5)

 

Just a few scriptures from some of the longer passages.

 

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

I understand your quest. But VISIBLE to WHO? If Israel has their Land as an "everlasting possession" with its borders, and the Overcoming Christians are kings of cities (Lk.19:17-19), and the Nations are ruled with a rod of iron, WHO is in the highest heaven to VIEW this Kingdom and its King? Consider the implications.

Firstly, Jesus is reminding Israel of God`s promises to them. (Rom. 15: 8) Thus the parable of the servants in Luke 19: 17 - 19, refers to those of Israel when the Lord returns to deliver them as a nation.

 

Secondly, the `Who` in the highest heaven are the overcomers in the Body of Christ and the myriads of angels. (Rev. 3: 21,  Heb. 12: 22)

 

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc,

I agree we must always go by what God`s word says. I have written my comments to your questions on 3 posts as it is quite long.

The different areas of heaven.

1.The highest heaven.

`Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God.` (Deut. 10: 14)

`To Him who rides on the heaven of heavens,..` (Ps. 68: 33)

`...such a one was caught up to the third heaven.` (2 Cor. 12: 2)

 

2.Celestial heaven.

`Then God made two great light; the greater to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. He set them in the firmament of the heavens and to give light on the earth. ` (Gen. 1: 16 & 17)

 

3.Atmospheric heaven.

`Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that is would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years. And he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.` (James 5: 17 & 18)

 

 

 

Here is your statement (below) that I asked scriptures for. I apologize if I did not make myself clear. I request scripture that Lucifer was (past tense) cast out of the highest heaven and stripped of his king-priest status.

13 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

You do acknowledge these in your comments however it seems you have missed a vital point. When Lucifer was cast out of the highest heaven and thus was stripped of his kingpriestly position, there was never anyone or any angel that VISIBLY took his place.