peaceful nature of the kingdom of God

[vic66]

The Peaceful Nature of the Kingdom of God

Jesus taught that the church which he was to build and the kingdom of heaven were one and the same. This is made clear by his use of the terms interchangably in Matthew 16:16-19. In Paul's writings he specifically says that Christians have been "translated into the kingdom" of Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:13). So Christ rules today over the lives of Christians who make up God's kingdom, the church. But what is the nature of this kingdom? May its subjects participate in warfare, with carnal weapons, and still have the approval of its King? In order to answer these questions, let us examine several Old Testament prophecies which point to the kingdom of Christ in the New Testament.

In Micah 4:1-4, we have a prophecy which contains the following elements: (1) Its fulfillment would occur in the last days (of political Israel, not of the world). (2) The mountain of the house of the Lord would be established (a reference to the kingdom or church). (3) People of all nations would flow into this kingdom. (4) Its law, the Word of God, would go forth from Jerusalem.

The fulfillment of this prophecy is found in the establishment of the church on the day of Pentecost and is recorded in the 2nd chapter of the Book of Acts. Briefly, here are the reasons why: (1) The events of Acts the 2nd chapter are said by the apostle Peter to have occurred on "the last days" (Compare Joel 2:28ff with Acts 2:17ff). (2) The church is repeatedly spoken of in the New Testament as the "house of God" (I Timothy 3:15; I Peter 4: 17). (3) The church was to be composed of people of all nations (Mark 16:15; Matthew 28:19) and on the day of Pentecost there were people present from "every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). (4) The apostles were told to begin their preaching of the Gospel of the kingdom from the city of Jerusalem (Luke 24:46-49; Acts 1:4, 12).

Now let us notice an important element of the Micah prophecy. Among the nations who were to flow unto this "mountain of Jehovah's house" (the kingdom or church) there would be those who would "beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks" (Micah 4:3). It further states that "nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." The references to "many nations" inviting people to come to the Lord's house (verse 2) and one "nation" not lifting up sword against another (verse 3) refer to the people from all nations who embrace this house of God. Zerr's Commentary says, "Many nations means people from many nations." ¹⁸ This period of time does not refer to some golden age of the church on earth when everyone will be converted, nor does it refer to conditions in heaven. The context shows clearly that it is speaking of the church age which began on the day of Pentecost, as recorded in Acts 2, and which continues today. Thus, this prophecy tells of conditions in which we now live, when Christians from the various nations of the world will not take up arms to fight against each other.

Commenting on this prophecy, Larry Jonas said, in "The Pattern", "It need only be a time when church members in every nation give up weapons...This prophecy is to be fulfilled by all who obey Jesus."¹⁹ Here, then, appears a prophecy of the peaceful nature of the kingdom of Christ, in which Christians would not be engaged in carnal warfare.

Another prophecy bearing directly upon the peaceful nature of Christ's kingdom, the church, is found in Isaiah 11:1-10. That this passage alludes to the kingdom of Christ is seen by the fact that the apostle Paul quotes from this passage and applies it to Christ (Romans 15:12). Notice in Isaiah 11:6-9 that various wild animals are pictured as lying down together and even playing with children without harming them. Some have supposed that this refers to a future state of heavenly bliss, but recall that Paul attributes its fulfillment to the time when the Gentiles would have hope in Christ. This, of course, is the Christian dispensation, the church age in which we now live. The language of Isaiah describing the marvelous peace and contentment existing between animal life is simply prophetic imagery indicating the peaceful nature of God's people in the kingdom of Christ. Wallace gives the following comment on this section of Scripture: "The wolf, the leopard and the lion are representative of the wicked and violent passions of men—the wild beasts of human character. It is a prophetic Gospel promise that such evil spirits should be subdued by the reign of the Prince of Peace in the hearts and lives of his subjects."²⁰

The above reference to Christ as "Prince of Peace" is taken from the unmistakable allusion to the Savior recorded in Isaiah 9:6-7. These prophecies, together with others which could be cited, show that Jesus' rule over the hearts of men in his New Testament kingdom would produce in them a nature totally adverse to the practices required by armed warfare. But so much for prophecy. Let us now turn our attention to the explicit teaching of the New Testament Scriptures concerning the peaceful nature of members of Christ's church.

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus bestowed his blessing upon the "peacemakers," stating that "they shall be called the children of God" (Matthew 5:9). Peace making was to be a notable characteristic of Christians. But members of the armed forces are rigorously trained in the art of war making. If, somehow, a fighting soldier could be considered a "peacemaker," then who should properly be classed as a "warmaker?" If being a peacemaker brings the promise of being called "children of God," what might those who wage war be called? Peacemakers do not fight, and warmakers are not peaceful!

Perhaps one of the clearest passages of Scripture showing that Christians are not permitted to engage in carnal warfare is found in II Corinthians 10:3-4. These verses state: "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds)." Paul here teaches that, although Christians live on earth in a human body, they are not to conduct themselves according to human standards. He does not deny that a Christian is at war, but he points out that the weapons used by the child of God are not the same as those used by non-Christians. The Christian is engaged in "the good fight of the faith," but he uses only those spiritual weapons which God mightily blesses in the overthrow of evil.

Weymouth translates this passage, "The weapons with which we fight are not human weapons..." Taylor's "Living New Testament" paraphrases it in these words: "I use God's mighty weapons, not those made by men, to knock down the devil's strongholds." Phillips puts it this way: "The battle we are fighting is on the spiritual level. The very weapons we use are not those of human warfare but powerful in God's warfare for the destruction of the enemy's strongholds."

So the Christian is engaged in a spiritual battle, against spiritual enemies and therefore must use spiritual weapons. This same conflict is described by the figure of "wrestling" in Ephesians 6:12, "For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places." (American Standard Version) From this we can see that the Christian's struggle is against evil ideas; against wicked tendencies; against ungodly influences; against false philosophies; against all the powers of sin and wrongdoing.

Even though these are formidable enemies, the weapons to be used in combating them involve no violence or bloodshed. To insure victory in this spiritual battle, the New Testament Scriptures refer us to the proper equipment called "the armour of God." This armour consists of truth, righteousness, the Gospel of peace, faith, salvation, the Word of God and prayer (Ephesians 6:10-18). How different these weapons are from those used in human warfare! They are specially designed to cast down "imaginations" and to capture "thoughts" with a view to bringing people to a "knowledge of God" and into "the obedience of Christ" (II Corinthians 10:5). They are to be used for elevating and blessing the spirit of man and not for harming or destroying his body. The nature, methods, equipment and aims of the Christian warfare are on a totally different plane than those of human warfare, which requires arms and violence to gain its temporal ends.

Carnal weapons are not used in a spiritual war, and spiritual weapons are powerless in a carnal war. The Christian is engaged in only one war, a spiritual one. He is authorized to use only one type of weapon by his Commander, spiritual ones. This means that he has absolutely no place participating in the carnal wars of men, fighting with fleshly weapons, devoted to a mere earthly cause, however noble that cause may appear in the eyes of men.

Jesus made this principle clear on the occasion of his mock trial before Pilate. He said, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence" (John 18:36). Again we see the peaceful nature of the kingdom expressed by Christ himself. His disciples were forbidden to fight, even for the just cause of delivering the innocent Savior from the injustice of hateful men. Jesus acknowledged that if his kingdom had been as any other worldly kingdom, it would have been a natural consequence for his followers to engage in armed conflict to protect their king and to advance their cause. But Christians sustain such a relationship to Christ which demands that their primary allegiance be to him. If they are not permitted to fight to protect or promote his kingdom, how could they possibly be allowed to engage in a war involving a lesser, earthly kingdom? If a servant of Christ is forbidden to kill on behalf of the King of Kings, the Creator of the universe, how could he be allowed to kill on behalf of a temporal government led by fallible men? Unless it can be shown that earthly kingdoms take preeminence over the heavenly kingdom, it stands that whatever is not permitted for the highest order is certainly forbidden for all lower orders.

One incident in Jesus' life stands out as an example of the enforcement of this principle. As Jesus was being arrested in the garden of Gethsemene, one of his disciples drew a sword and attempted to slay one of the arresters. The blow failed to inflict a mortal wound and resulted only in severing the man's ear. Jesus immediately touched the ear and healed him, and then said to Peter, "Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matthew 26:52). Here is the case of a small band of disciples being accosted by an angry, armed mob intent on taking their leader to what appeared his certain death. If the use of a defensive sword on behalf of a righteous cause were ever justified, it would certainly have been proper in this instance. But Jesus said, "Put up again thy sword." By this command the Lord disarmed every person who would resort to unrestrained, destructive violence as a means of accomplishing his aim.

Jesus was not denying the use of the sword simply because he realized that his earthly mission required submitting to death, for he gives, as the reason, a universal principle. "All they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" is equivalent to saying, "Killing is futile, for it only results in being killed." This principle holds true generally whether death comes through the vengeance of a victim's friends or whether it comes from an enemy soldier on the battlefield of war. Jesus denies the use of a deadly weapon for the purpose of maliciously killing people. And this prohibition serves as another stone in the mountain of New Testament teaching which restricts a Christian from participating in armed warfare.

NOTES FROM CHAPTER NINE 18. E. M. Zetr, BIBLE COMMENTARY, (St. Louis, Mo.: Mission Messenger: 1955) Vol. 4, p. 327. 19. Larry Jonas, "Nationalistic Militarism," THE PATTERN (Vancouver, Wash.: Vol. 7, No. 11, Nov. 1, 1964) 20. Foy E. Wallace, Jr., GOD'S PROPHETIC WORD, (Oklahoma City: Foy E. Wallace, Jr. Publications: Revised edition, 1960) p. 492.

Edited March 4, 2022 by vic66

[AdHoc]

9 hours ago, vic66 said:

The Peaceful Nature of the Kingdom of God

Jesus taught that the church which he was to build and the kingdom of heaven were one and the same. This is made clear by his use of the terms interchangably in Matthew 16:16-19. In Paul's writings he specifically says that Christians have been "translated into the kingdom" of Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:13). So Christ rules today over the lives of Christians who make up God's kingdom, the church. But what is the nature of this kingdom? May its subjects participate in warfare, with carnal weapons, and still have the approval of its King? In order to answer these questions, let us examine several Old Testament prophecies which point to the kingdom of Christ in the New Testament.

In Micah 4:1-4, we have a prophecy which contains the following elements: (1) Its fulfillment would occur in the last days (of political Israel, not of the world). (2) The mountain of the house of the Lord would be established (a reference to the kingdom or church). (3) People of all nations would flow into this kingdom. (4) Its law, the Word of God, would go forth from Jerusalem.

The fulfillment of this prophecy is found in the establishment of the church on the day of Pentecost and is recorded in the 2nd chapter of the Book of Acts. Briefly, here are the reasons why: (1) The events of Acts the 2nd chapter are said by the apostle Peter to have occurred on "the last days" (Compare Joel 2:28ff with Acts 2:17ff). (2) The church is repeatedly spoken of in the New Testament as the "house of God" (I Timothy 3:15; I Peter 4: 17). (3) The church was to be composed of people of all nations (Mark 16:15; Matthew 28:19) and on the day of Pentecost there were people present from "every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). (4) The apostles were told to begin their preaching of the Gospel of the kingdom from the city of Jerusalem (Luke 24:46-49; Acts 1:4, 12).

Now let us notice an important element of the Micah prophecy. Among the nations who were to flow unto this "mountain of Jehovah's house" (the kingdom or church) there would be those who would "beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks" (Micah 4:3). It further states that "nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." The references to "many nations" inviting people to come to the Lord's house (verse 2) and one "nation" not lifting up sword against another (verse 3) refer to the people from all nations who embrace this house of God. Zerr's Commentary says, "Many nations means people from many nations." ¹⁸ This period of time does not refer to some golden age of the church on earth when everyone will be converted, nor does it refer to conditions in heaven. The context shows clearly that it is speaking of the church age which began on the day of Pentecost, as recorded in Acts 2, and which continues today. Thus, this prophecy tells of conditions in which we now live, when Christians from the various nations of the world will not take up arms to fight against each other.

Commenting on this prophecy, Larry Jonas said, in "The Pattern", "It need only be a time when church members in every nation give up weapons...This prophecy is to be fulfilled by all who obey Jesus."¹⁹ Here, then, appears a prophecy of the peaceful nature of the kingdom of Christ, in which Christians would not be engaged in carnal warfare.

Another prophecy bearing directly upon the peaceful nature of Christ's kingdom, the church, is found in Isaiah 11:1-10. That this passage alludes to the kingdom of Christ is seen by the fact that the apostle Paul quotes from this passage and applies it to Christ (Romans 15:12). Notice in Isaiah 11:6-9 that various wild animals are pictured as lying down together and even playing with children without harming them. Some have supposed that this refers to a future state of heavenly bliss, but recall that Paul attributes its fulfillment to the time when the Gentiles would have hope in Christ. This, of course, is the Christian dispensation, the church age in which we now live. The language of Isaiah describing the marvelous peace and contentment existing between animal life is simply prophetic imagery indicating the peaceful nature of God's people in the kingdom of Christ. Wallace gives the following comment on this section of Scripture: "The wolf, the leopard and the lion are representative of the wicked and violent passions of men—the wild beasts of human character. It is a prophetic Gospel promise that such evil spirits should be subdued by the reign of the Prince of Peace in the hearts and lives of his subjects."²⁰

The above reference to Christ as "Prince of Peace" is taken from the unmistakable allusion to the Savior recorded in Isaiah 9:6-7. These prophecies, together with others which could be cited, show that Jesus' rule over the hearts of men in his New Testament kingdom would produce in them a nature totally adverse to the practices required by armed warfare. But so much for prophecy. Let us now turn our attention to the explicit teaching of the New Testament Scriptures concerning the peaceful nature of members of Christ's church.

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus bestowed his blessing upon the "peacemakers," stating that "they shall be called the children of God" (Matthew 5:9). Peace making was to be a notable characteristic of Christians. But members of the armed forces are rigorously trained in the art of war making. If, somehow, a fighting soldier could be considered a "peacemaker," then who should properly be classed as a "warmaker?" If being a peacemaker brings the promise of being called "children of God," what might those who wage war be called? Peacemakers do not fight, and warmakers are not peaceful!

Perhaps one of the clearest passages of Scripture showing that Christians are not permitted to engage in carnal warfare is found in II Corinthians 10:3-4. These verses state: "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds)." Paul here teaches that, although Christians live on earth in a human body, they are not to conduct themselves according to human standards. He does not deny that a Christian is at war, but he points out that the weapons used by the child of God are not the same as those used by non-Christians. The Christian is engaged in "the good fight of the faith," but he uses only those spiritual weapons which God mightily blesses in the overthrow of evil.

Weymouth translates this passage, "The weapons with which we fight are not human weapons..." Taylor's "Living New Testament" paraphrases it in these words: "I use God's mighty weapons, not those made by men, to knock down the devil's strongholds." Phillips puts it this way: "The battle we are fighting is on the spiritual level. The very weapons we use are not those of human warfare but powerful in God's warfare for the destruction of the enemy's strongholds."

So the Christian is engaged in a spiritual battle, against spiritual enemies and therefore must use spiritual weapons. This same conflict is described by the figure of "wrestling" in Ephesians 6:12, "For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places." (American Standard Version) From this we can see that the Christian's struggle is against evil ideas; against wicked tendencies; against ungodly influences; against false philosophies; against all the powers of sin and wrongdoing.

Even though these are formidable enemies, the weapons to be used in combating them involve no violence or bloodshed. To insure victory in this spiritual battle, the New Testament Scriptures refer us to the proper equipment called "the armour of God." This armour consists of truth, righteousness, the Gospel of peace, faith, salvation, the Word of God and prayer (Ephesians 6:10-18). How different these weapons are from those used in human warfare! They are specially designed to cast down "imaginations" and to capture "thoughts" with a view to bringing people to a "knowledge of God" and into "the obedience of Christ" (II Corinthians 10:5). They are to be used for elevating and blessing the spirit of man and not for harming or destroying his body. The nature, methods, equipment and aims of the Christian warfare are on a totally different plane than those of human warfare, which requires arms and violence to gain its temporal ends.

Carnal weapons are not used in a spiritual war, and spiritual weapons are powerless in a carnal war. The Christian is engaged in only one war, a spiritual one. He is authorized to use only one type of weapon by his Commander, spiritual ones. This means that he has absolutely no place participating in the carnal wars of men, fighting with fleshly weapons, devoted to a mere earthly cause, however noble that cause may appear in the eyes of men.

Jesus made this principle clear on the occasion of his mock trial before Pilate. He said, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence" (John 18:36). Again we see the peaceful nature of the kingdom expressed by Christ himself. His disciples were forbidden to fight, even for the just cause of delivering the innocent Savior from the injustice of hateful men. Jesus acknowledged that if his kingdom had been as any other worldly kingdom, it would have been a natural consequence for his followers to engage in armed conflict to protect their king and to advance their cause. But Christians sustain such a relationship to Christ which demands that their primary allegiance be to him. If they are not permitted to fight to protect or promote his kingdom, how could they possibly be allowed to engage in a war involving a lesser, earthly kingdom? If a servant of Christ is forbidden to kill on behalf of the King of Kings, the Creator of the universe, how could he be allowed to kill on behalf of a temporal government led by fallible men? Unless it can be shown that earthly kingdoms take preeminence over the heavenly kingdom, it stands that whatever is not permitted for the highest order is certainly forbidden for all lower orders.

One incident in Jesus' life stands out as an example of the enforcement of this principle. As Jesus was being arrested in the garden of Gethsemene, one of his disciples drew a sword and attempted to slay one of the arresters. The blow failed to inflict a mortal wound and resulted only in severing the man's ear. Jesus immediately touched the ear and healed him, and then said to Peter, "Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matthew 26:52). Here is the case of a small band of disciples being accosted by an angry, armed mob intent on taking their leader to what appeared his certain death. If the use of a defensive sword on behalf of a righteous cause were ever justified, it would certainly have been proper in this instance. But Jesus said, "Put up again thy sword." By this command the Lord disarmed every person who would resort to unrestrained, destructive violence as a means of accomplishing his aim.

Jesus was not denying the use of the sword simply because he realized that his earthly mission required submitting to death, for he gives, as the reason, a universal principle. "All they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" is equivalent to saying, "Killing is futile, for it only results in being killed." This principle holds true generally whether death comes through the vengeance of a victim's friends or whether it comes from an enemy soldier on the battlefield of war. Jesus denies the use of a deadly weapon for the purpose of maliciously killing people. And this prohibition serves as another stone in the mountain of New Testament teaching which restricts a Christian from participating in armed warfare.

NOTES FROM CHAPTER NINE 18. E. M. Zetr, BIBLE COMMENTARY, (St. Louis, Mo.: Mission Messenger: 1955) Vol. 4, p. 327. 19. Larry Jonas, "Nationalistic Militarism," THE PATTERN (Vancouver, Wash.: Vol. 7, No. 11, Nov. 1, 1964) 20. Foy E. Wallace, Jr., GOD'S PROPHETIC WORD, (Oklahoma City: Foy E. Wallace, Jr. Publications: Revised edition, 1960) p. 492.

Your posting poses some interesting points, the which, if commented on individually, would make a rather long posting. Herewith is my understanding.

The command of the Lord Jesus for His Church not to take up physical arms is not to introduce worldwide peace. It is God's economy to give men TIME to be reconciled with Him. Even with sin ans sins put away, men are at enmity with God and need time to hear and apply the gospel, and be reconciled with Him so that they can be built up into a House for God and Bride for our Lord Jesus. It is only for this age that God stays His hand of judgment for a while. But the day comes when, in a bloody battle in Jezreel, God's gracious offer will be replaced by judgment. 

After the flood God introduced the death penalty for murder. Abraham took up arms for Lot. Israel were to slaughter the Canaanites. The battle of Armageddon, fought at the end of this age has a tremendous slaughter as its fame. And, after a peaceful Millennium which has "the rule of the rod of iron", there is another massive slaughter as Magog attacks Jerusalem. Governments were violently changed in the past, and will be in the future. Our age is a special dispensation by God in which judgment is DEFERRED.

God's primary attribute is righteousness. He cannot wink at offense. But this attribute has the effect of timely and equitous judgment upon any offender. This means that all men must die physically and pay, with commensurate torment, for their affront to a Holy Creator. But God is not only Creator and Owner of this universe. He is a God Who takes responsibility for its well-being. Although He is righteous to the uttermost, He is also a merciful God. However, righteousness and mercy are diametrically opposed. The judge who administers the Law must apply it without rebate. This precludes mercy. The judge who applies mercy overturns the Law and is thus unrighteous.

The HUGE price for God to extend mercy is seen in all its bitterness in the death of the only Man Who never sinned. Righteousness MUST be satisfied - and the price was enormous - the sufferings and death of our Lord Jesus. Once righteousness was satisfied, mercy could be extended. But mercy only takes care of offense. It does not reconcile an enemy. A man's sins can be put away, but he remains the implacable enemy of the One Who he has offended. So, to give TIME for a man to hear of, and appreciate his release from the wages of making God an enemy by offense, God DEFERS justice. God asks His followers to STAY the retribution that would normally be due. But this STAY of execution is limited. There comes a day when God has extended mercy and reconciliation to men to His limit. THEN He reverts to justice.

The promises to Abraham and his seed included that "in him would all the families of the earth be blessed". This is achieved by two ways. (i) The "Seed" (singular - Jesus) brings salvation and the Holy Spirit to men. (ii) The seed (plural) both Jesus and His Overcomers, will institute and enforce a just Government on the earth. But God deems it advantageous for the training of His future kings (Lk.19:17_19), not to overthrow Gentile Government till (i) the full number of the Church have been gathered, and (ii) the iniquity of the Gentiles is full. That is, men accept a mark to indicate that they put their trust in a Gentile king - the Beast, instead of the Man Jesus. Then will the age change and the Christian will wield arms.

In the mean time, as the OP says, our battle is with spirits, not men.

 

[vic66]

YES CHRIST WILL WHEELED THE SWORD NEAR THE END OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION. BUT THE WEAPONS OF OUR CHRISTIAN WARFARE IS NOT CARNAL AS SOME MISGUIDED CHRISTIANS BELIEVE.

THE GOSPEL PREACHING ON SUNDAY THE MACHINE GUN AND GLOCK ON MONDAY. TWO OPPOSITES

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, vic66 said:

YES CHRIST WILL WHEELED THE SWORD NEAR THE END OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION. BUT THE WEAPONS OF OUR CHRISTIAN WARFARE IS NOT CARNAL AS SOME MISGUIDED CHRISTIANS BELIEVE.

THE GOSPEL PREACHING ON SUNDAY THE MACHINE GUN AND GLOCK ON MONDAY. TWO OPPOSITES

There was an interesting thread a while ago on Revelation 13:10. It was debated whether it is a warning to Christians who oppose the rule of the Beast. Here's the context;

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

In verse 5 and 7 it was "given" to the Beast. That indicates a higher power. This reminds us of Romans 13:1 and Daniel 2:37-38:

1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all.

And yet we read in Revelation 20 that there were men who refused the Beast's authority and were beheaded for not taking the Mark. I am aware that refusing the Mark is not taking up arms, but the martyrs under the altar in Revelation 6:9-10 were crying for vengeance - decidedly "UN-peaceful". But there, I judge, the Seals had been opened - a sure sign that the age had changed and God was out for vengeance.

[vic66]

On 3/4/2022 at 10:05 PM, AdHoc said:

There was an interesting thread a while ago on Revelation 13:10. It was debated whether it is a warning to Christians who oppose the rule of the Beast. Here's the context;

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

In verse 5 and 7 it was "given" to the Beast. That indicates a higher power. This reminds us of Romans 13:1 and Daniel 2:37-38:

1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all.

And yet we read in Revelation 20 that there were men who refused the Beast's authority and were beheaded for not taking the Mark. I am aware that refusing the Mark is not taking up arms, but the martyrs under the altar in Revelation 6:9-10 were crying for vengeance - decidedly "UN-peaceful". But there, I judge, the Seals had been opened - a sure sign that the age had changed and God was out for vengeance.

the church wont be around for the beast

[Marathoner]

On 3/3/2022 at 6:17 PM, vic66 said:

The Peaceful Nature of the Kingdom of God

Jesus taught that the church which he was to build and the kingdom of heaven were one and the same. This is made clear by his use of the terms interchangably in Matthew 16:16-19. In Paul's writings he specifically says that Christians have been "translated into the kingdom" of Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:13). So Christ rules today over the lives of Christians who make up God's kingdom, the church. But what is the nature of this kingdom? May its subjects participate in warfare, with carnal weapons, and still have the approval of its King? In order to answer these questions, let us examine several Old Testament prophecies which point to the kingdom of Christ in the New Testament.

In Micah 4:1-4, we have a prophecy which contains the following elements: (1) Its fulfillment would occur in the last days (of political Israel, not of the world). (2) The mountain of the house of the Lord would be established (a reference to the kingdom or church). (3) People of all nations would flow into this kingdom. (4) Its law, the Word of God, would go forth from Jerusalem.

The fulfillment of this prophecy is found in the establishment of the church on the day of Pentecost and is recorded in the 2nd chapter of the Book of Acts. Briefly, here are the reasons why: (1) The events of Acts the 2nd chapter are said by the apostle Peter to have occurred on "the last days" (Compare Joel 2:28ff with Acts 2:17ff). (2) The church is repeatedly spoken of in the New Testament as the "house of God" (I Timothy 3:15; I Peter 4: 17). (3) The church was to be composed of people of all nations (Mark 16:15; Matthew 28:19) and on the day of Pentecost there were people present from "every nation under heaven" (Acts 2:5). (4) The apostles were told to begin their preaching of the Gospel of the kingdom from the city of Jerusalem (Luke 24:46-49; Acts 1:4, 12).

Now let us notice an important element of the Micah prophecy. Among the nations who were to flow unto this "mountain of Jehovah's house" (the kingdom or church) there would be those who would "beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks" (Micah 4:3). It further states that "nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." The references to "many nations" inviting people to come to the Lord's house (verse 2) and one "nation" not lifting up sword against another (verse 3) refer to the people from all nations who embrace this house of God. Zerr's Commentary says, "Many nations means people from many nations." ¹⁸ This period of time does not refer to some golden age of the church on earth when everyone will be converted, nor does it refer to conditions in heaven. The context shows clearly that it is speaking of the church age which began on the day of Pentecost, as recorded in Acts 2, and which continues today. Thus, this prophecy tells of conditions in which we now live, when Christians from the various nations of the world will not take up arms to fight against each other.

Commenting on this prophecy, Larry Jonas said, in "The Pattern", "It need only be a time when church members in every nation give up weapons...This prophecy is to be fulfilled by all who obey Jesus."¹⁹ Here, then, appears a prophecy of the peaceful nature of the kingdom of Christ, in which Christians would not be engaged in carnal warfare.

Another prophecy bearing directly upon the peaceful nature of Christ's kingdom, the church, is found in Isaiah 11:1-10. That this passage alludes to the kingdom of Christ is seen by the fact that the apostle Paul quotes from this passage and applies it to Christ (Romans 15:12). Notice in Isaiah 11:6-9 that various wild animals are pictured as lying down together and even playing with children without harming them. Some have supposed that this refers to a future state of heavenly bliss, but recall that Paul attributes its fulfillment to the time when the Gentiles would have hope in Christ. This, of course, is the Christian dispensation, the church age in which we now live. The language of Isaiah describing the marvelous peace and contentment existing between animal life is simply prophetic imagery indicating the peaceful nature of God's people in the kingdom of Christ. Wallace gives the following comment on this section of Scripture: "The wolf, the leopard and the lion are representative of the wicked and violent passions of men—the wild beasts of human character. It is a prophetic Gospel promise that such evil spirits should be subdued by the reign of the Prince of Peace in the hearts and lives of his subjects."²⁰

The above reference to Christ as "Prince of Peace" is taken from the unmistakable allusion to the Savior recorded in Isaiah 9:6-7. These prophecies, together with others which could be cited, show that Jesus' rule over the hearts of men in his New Testament kingdom would produce in them a nature totally adverse to the practices required by armed warfare. But so much for prophecy. Let us now turn our attention to the explicit teaching of the New Testament Scriptures concerning the peaceful nature of members of Christ's church.

In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus bestowed his blessing upon the "peacemakers," stating that "they shall be called the children of God" (Matthew 5:9). Peace making was to be a notable characteristic of Christians. But members of the armed forces are rigorously trained in the art of war making. If, somehow, a fighting soldier could be considered a "peacemaker," then who should properly be classed as a "warmaker?" If being a peacemaker brings the promise of being called "children of God," what might those who wage war be called? Peacemakers do not fight, and warmakers are not peaceful!

Perhaps one of the clearest passages of Scripture showing that Christians are not permitted to engage in carnal warfare is found in II Corinthians 10:3-4. These verses state: "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds)." Paul here teaches that, although Christians live on earth in a human body, they are not to conduct themselves according to human standards. He does not deny that a Christian is at war, but he points out that the weapons used by the child of God are not the same as those used by non-Christians. The Christian is engaged in "the good fight of the faith," but he uses only those spiritual weapons which God mightily blesses in the overthrow of evil.

Weymouth translates this passage, "The weapons with which we fight are not human weapons..." Taylor's "Living New Testament" paraphrases it in these words: "I use God's mighty weapons, not those made by men, to knock down the devil's strongholds." Phillips puts it this way: "The battle we are fighting is on the spiritual level. The very weapons we use are not those of human warfare but powerful in God's warfare for the destruction of the enemy's strongholds."

So the Christian is engaged in a spiritual battle, against spiritual enemies and therefore must use spiritual weapons. This same conflict is described by the figure of "wrestling" in Ephesians 6:12, "For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places." (American Standard Version) From this we can see that the Christian's struggle is against evil ideas; against wicked tendencies; against ungodly influences; against false philosophies; against all the powers of sin and wrongdoing.

Even though these are formidable enemies, the weapons to be used in combating them involve no violence or bloodshed. To insure victory in this spiritual battle, the New Testament Scriptures refer us to the proper equipment called "the armour of God." This armour consists of truth, righteousness, the Gospel of peace, faith, salvation, the Word of God and prayer (Ephesians 6:10-18). How different these weapons are from those used in human warfare! They are specially designed to cast down "imaginations" and to capture "thoughts" with a view to bringing people to a "knowledge of God" and into "the obedience of Christ" (II Corinthians 10:5). They are to be used for elevating and blessing the spirit of man and not for harming or destroying his body. The nature, methods, equipment and aims of the Christian warfare are on a totally different plane than those of human warfare, which requires arms and violence to gain its temporal ends.

Carnal weapons are not used in a spiritual war, and spiritual weapons are powerless in a carnal war. The Christian is engaged in only one war, a spiritual one. He is authorized to use only one type of weapon by his Commander, spiritual ones. This means that he has absolutely no place participating in the carnal wars of men, fighting with fleshly weapons, devoted to a mere earthly cause, however noble that cause may appear in the eyes of men.

Jesus made this principle clear on the occasion of his mock trial before Pilate. He said, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence" (John 18:36). Again we see the peaceful nature of the kingdom expressed by Christ himself. His disciples were forbidden to fight, even for the just cause of delivering the innocent Savior from the injustice of hateful men. Jesus acknowledged that if his kingdom had been as any other worldly kingdom, it would have been a natural consequence for his followers to engage in armed conflict to protect their king and to advance their cause. But Christians sustain such a relationship to Christ which demands that their primary allegiance be to him. If they are not permitted to fight to protect or promote his kingdom, how could they possibly be allowed to engage in a war involving a lesser, earthly kingdom? If a servant of Christ is forbidden to kill on behalf of the King of Kings, the Creator of the universe, how could he be allowed to kill on behalf of a temporal government led by fallible men? Unless it can be shown that earthly kingdoms take preeminence over the heavenly kingdom, it stands that whatever is not permitted for the highest order is certainly forbidden for all lower orders.

One incident in Jesus' life stands out as an example of the enforcement of this principle. As Jesus was being arrested in the garden of Gethsemene, one of his disciples drew a sword and attempted to slay one of the arresters. The blow failed to inflict a mortal wound and resulted only in severing the man's ear. Jesus immediately touched the ear and healed him, and then said to Peter, "Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matthew 26:52). Here is the case of a small band of disciples being accosted by an angry, armed mob intent on taking their leader to what appeared his certain death. If the use of a defensive sword on behalf of a righteous cause were ever justified, it would certainly have been proper in this instance. But Jesus said, "Put up again thy sword." By this command the Lord disarmed every person who would resort to unrestrained, destructive violence as a means of accomplishing his aim.

Jesus was not denying the use of the sword simply because he realized that his earthly mission required submitting to death, for he gives, as the reason, a universal principle. "All they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" is equivalent to saying, "Killing is futile, for it only results in being killed." This principle holds true generally whether death comes through the vengeance of a victim's friends or whether it comes from an enemy soldier on the battlefield of war. Jesus denies the use of a deadly weapon for the purpose of maliciously killing people. And this prohibition serves as another stone in the mountain of New Testament teaching which restricts a Christian from participating in armed warfare.

NOTES FROM CHAPTER NINE 18. E. M. Zetr, BIBLE COMMENTARY, (St. Louis, Mo.: Mission Messenger: 1955) Vol. 4, p. 327. 19. Larry Jonas, "Nationalistic Militarism," THE PATTERN (Vancouver, Wash.: Vol. 7, No. 11, Nov. 1, 1964) 20. Foy E. Wallace, Jr., GOD'S PROPHETIC WORD, (Oklahoma City: Foy E. Wallace, Jr. Publications: Revised edition, 1960) p. 492.

My friend, when a member copies and pastes articles here on the forum, this thrusts the site administrator into a potentially perilous legal situation. Copyright law encompasses all manner of publishing --- even here on an internet forum --- so great care must be taken on the part of the one who publishes these works to ensure that their actions won't bring needless grief upon George. 

Posts from Worthy appear on search engine results. A simple plagiarism check by a law firm will uncover breaches of copyright law across cyberspace.

As it stands right now, you haven't identified the author of this work nor revealed the source where you copied it from. Thus, we have no way of ascertaining whether this has been shared in good faith or not. The appearance of evil is unbecoming a servant of the Lord, @vic66. 

Many members of Worthy refer to articles (and even books) written by others using their own words, refraining from copying and pasting vast tracts of material written by someone else. This is an example of something good and worthwhile, an enterprise that doesn't place George at the mercy of law firms. Anyone who is interested may then pursue those articles or books for themselves.

I encourage you to try doing that yourself. Did you read something you like? Write about it relying upon your own words.  

[AdHoc]

26 minutes ago, vic66 said:

the church wont be around for the beast

Yes. There is a large school of thought that holds this. But I find at least four scriptures that indicate Christians on earth under the beast's reign. And another four that imply it.

1. In Revelation 7 there is a great multitude from every nation who have been through the Great Tribulation. they are obviously attached to Christ. Their garments are dirty and needed to be washed.
2. In Revelation 12 the mystic Woman has three seeds; (i) The Man-child, (ii) those who keep the commandments of God, and (iii) those who have the testimony of Jess Christ. Those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ must spend the 1260 days of Tribulation in a wilderness. Only the Man-child avoids the Great Tribulation.
3. In Revelation 13:7 "saints" are overcome by the Beast. They must be on earth during his time of power
4. In Revelation 18 our Lord Jesus calls for His people to come out of Mystery Babylon. They must be on earth to be in it, and they must be on earth to partake of her plagues.

These scriptures imply that SOME Christians go through the Great Tribulation.

1. Paul says that the "upward call" is a PRIZE that must be ATTAINED to in Philippians 3. If the Church is apostate as Revelation Chapters 2 & 3 show, there will be many who do NOT attain
2. Paul says in 1st Thessalonians 5:9 that we are not "appointed" to wrath. "Appointed" is no guarantee. The executive of the U.S. government is "appointed" by the President, but sickness, death or criminal activity can cut that short
3. Luke 21:35-36, in context of the trouble that will overtake the "whole earth", says that escape must be ATTAINED. This implies that many don't attain
4. Revelation 3:10 says that "BECAUSE" the saints at Philadelphia did something, Jesus would keep the from the HOUR of tribulation that will encompass the whole earth. None of the other six Churches are recorded as doing this and are thus not included.

It seems to me that a majority of the Christians will pass through the Great Tribulation. What do you think concerning these points?

[vic66]

On 3/8/2022 at 10:37 PM, AdHoc said:

Yes. There is a large school of thought that holds this. But I find at least four scriptures that indicate Christians on earth under the beast's reign. And another four that imply it.

1. In Revelation 7 there is a great multitude from every nation who have been through the Great Tribulation. they are obviously attached to Christ. Their garments are dirty and needed to be washed.
2. In Revelation 12 the mystic Woman has three seeds; (i) The Man-child, (ii) those who keep the commandments of God, and (iii) those who have the testimony of Jess Christ. Those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ must spend the 1260 days of Tribulation in a wilderness. Only the Man-child avoids the Great Tribulation.
3. In Revelation 13:7 "saints" are overcome by the Beast. They must be on earth during his time of power
4. In Revelation 18 our Lord Jesus calls for His people to come out of Mystery Babylon. They must be on earth to be in it, and they must be on earth to partake of her plagues.

These scriptures imply that SOME Christians go through the Great Tribulation.

1. Paul says that the "upward call" is a PRIZE that must be ATTAINED to in Philippians 3. If the Church is apostate as Revelation Chapters 2 & 3 show, there will be many who do NOT attain
2. Paul says in 1st Thessalonians 5:9 that we are not "appointed" to wrath. "Appointed" is no guarantee. The executive of the U.S. government is "appointed" by the President, but sickness, death or criminal activity can cut that short
3. Luke 21:35-36, in context of the trouble that will overtake the "whole earth", says that escape must be ATTAINED. This implies that many don't attain
4. Revelation 3:10 says that "BECAUSE" the saints at Philadelphia did something, Jesus would keep the from the HOUR of tribulation that will encompass the whole earth. None of the other six Churches are recorded as doing this and are thus not included.

It seems to me that a majority of the Christians will pass through the Great Tribulation. What do you think concerning these points?

jewish converts mainly during the great tribulation period at present i am not sure about gentiles salvation during the tribulation period there is many different views on this point

the five wise virgin went with the groom at the mid night marriage call 

bible teaches that when he(Christ)will appear we will be like him for we(true born again believers) shall see him has he is (eternal, immortal)

the church Christ bride is not appoint to wrath but to obtain salvation, Israel and the gentile nations will have to go through Jacobs trouble(note the term Jacob refers to the people of Israel. purging through fire of persecution for Israel to remove the rebels against God. also to bring the remnant  of the Jewish nation to faith and repentance in Christ their rejected messiah 

note from chapter 1-3 revelation john writes to the churches we hear nothing more about the church on earth until 19 chapter, the woman who brought forth a man child speaks of Israel and the serpent casting flood of water after the woman, is the devil and the anti Christ persecuting the nation of Israel. especially those Jews who refuse to bow or take his mark  and deny their new found faith in Christ.

Zec 13:8-9kjv

And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Edited March 10, 2022 by vic66

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, vic66 said:

jewish converts mainly during the great tribulation period at present i am not sure about gentiles salvation during the tribulation period there is many different views on this point

the five wise virgin went with the groom at the mid night marriage call 

bible teaches that when he(Christ)will appear we will be like him for we(true born again believers) shall see him has he is (eternal, immortal)

the church Christ bride is not appoint to wrath but to obtain salvation, Israel and the gentile nations will have to go through Jacobs trouble(note the term Jacob refers to the people of Israel. purging through fire of persecution for Israel to remove the rebels against God. also to bring the remnant  of the Jewish nation to faith and repentance in Christ their rejected messiah 

note from chapter 1-3 revelation john writes to the churches we hear nothing more about the church on earth until 19 chapter, the woman who brought forth a man child speaks of Israel and the serpent casting flood of water after the woman, is the devil and the anti Christ persecuting the nation of Israel. especially those Jews who refuse to bow or take his mark  and deny their new found faith in Christ.

Zec 13:8-9kjv

And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, it is a complex matter. There is no mention of the Church after Chapter 3, but as my scriptures show, there are people connected with Christ in Revelation 7, 12, 13 and 18. It is difficult to imagine Jewish converts not being part of the Church. And then again, I've never seen a scripture that says the gospel is taught during the Great Tribulation. You have the Two Witnesses in Revelation 11, but they do not preach the gospel. They call fire down from heaven. Men are killed - not saved. Then you have the angel in mid-heaven preaching the "everlasting gospel", but that is not to call men to belief in Jesus. It calls men to worship the God of Creation (Rev.14:6). Faith comes from hearing and there is just nobody preaching the gospel.

I think the scriptures from Zechariah concern Israel when He comes. He will cut idols from the Land. The Beast has his idol till the end of the Great Tribulation, so Zechariah 13 must happen after the Great Tribulation (see Rev.9:20).

As I say - complex.

[vic66]

On 3/8/2022 at 10:13 PM, Marathoner said:

My friend, when a member copies and pastes articles here on the forum, this thrusts the site administrator into a potentially perilous legal situation. Copyright law encompasses all manner of publishing --- even here on an internet forum --- so great care must be taken on the part of the one who publishes these works to ensure that their actions won't bring needless grief upon George. 

Posts from Worthy appear on search engine results. A simple plagiarism check by a law firm will uncover breaches of copyright law across cyberspace.

As it stands right now, you haven't identified the author of this work nor revealed the source where you copied it from. Thus, we have no way of ascertaining whether this has been shared in good faith or not. The appearance of evil is unbecoming a servant of the Lord, @vic66. 

Many members of Worthy refer to articles (and even books) written by others using their own words, refraining from copying and pasting vast tracts of material written by someone else. This is an example of something good and worthwhile, an enterprise that doesn't place George at the mercy of law firms. Anyone who is interested may then pursue those articles or books for themselves.

I encourage you to try doing that yourself. Did you read something you like? Write about it relying upon your own words.  

God bless for informing me i wasn't fully aware, and i was hoping that Christians would only be to happy to have their godly articles shared especially when it's about promoting the peaceful  nature of christ and the gospel

freely have you received freely give. truth originates from God and he let us have his word with out any copy right or charge(not so with men sad) i'll be a bit more careful in future