Why Hell?

[Guest LadyC]

IF you don't mind LadyC, I'll have to disagree with you. Our souls can cease to exist. They have a beginning thus they can have an end. Anything that begins and exists within time must inevitably find an end unless a Being outside of time intervenes and stops it from ceasing.

i don't mind at all LOL, you're free to disagree with me! i do, however, agree with what you said regarding consequence. i didn't leave it out of my post out of ignorance on my part, i just figured enough people had covered it already.

however, i DO disagree with you that hell isn't a literal fire. i believe the gnashing of teeth is as much spiritual as it is physical. scripture also refers to those who didn't choose god as being thrown into the lake of fire. i believe heaven and hell are both literal places, and will be a part of earth. not THIS earth, but the millineal earth... the one that this one will be transformed into, the one where God will set up His kingdom. i believe Hell to be the center core of the earth... molten lava and all that we know burns at temperatures that are well beyond our imagination.

JMO.

[ted]

Thanks, LarryT.

That should end arguments on that point anyway.

t.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

My dear friend Charlie.

Your father is correct. He did send His only Son to die for your sin. So that you would not spend an eternity seperated from a God who Loves you.

I wanted to add that we see God dimly like through smoked glass right now. Yet a Day is coming when, if we believe by Faith, we will see Him face to face.

Seeing everything that is Good dimly right now still allows us to receive His Mercy. In the sun shining on our face on a warm day. In the smile of a child. In the Peaceful feeling we have after having been in His presence in a Worship service, etc... and on and on. This is due to God Mercy and Loving Kindness towards us. However the Bible is clear a man is given once to die and then the Judgement. The only way past the Judgement seat of God is through Christ.

Otherwise eternal seperation. Then everything that is expressed and has been felt to be Good. All that is God in this Creation will be cut off from us. For our own brand of Righteousness does not measure up to Gods. We will fall short and be Judged. Even now right here today the Bible says Judgment cometh swiftly. That we can escape by Repenting and turning to God for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand. It is at hand today. It was in Abrahams day as well. It was near to the Israelites even in their own mouths.

De

[apothanein kerdos]

I was always taught that it was a real place, with real fire; separation makes more sense as long as someone isn't being tortured. But, if God in all his perfection cannot create a perfect earth then how can we believe that Heaven will also be perfect; couldn't mankind "fall" or "sin" there too.

God did make a perfect earth, but with the full knowledge that we would fall. It's a long theory to put out, but in summary God created man for two reasons:

1) His own glory

2) To love and be loved

After all, if He is all loving it makes no sense for Him to exist alone and not have anyone to love or be loved by. Thus He created man. God, being perfect, could not create man in a state of sin, thus He allowed the fall of man. Why? Limited will (not Free WIll, there is no such thing), man's ability to choose on some level, is essential for love to occur. The only way we can truly love God is if we choose to love Him. This brings about redemption, partially in this life and completely at the "end of the age." This means that our fallen nature is gone as well as the Tempter. Whilst it is plausible that man could fall in Heaven, it is not practical as the two things that lead us into sin now will be completely gone on the new earth.

If God predestined who would "get in" [refer to the 7 verses in my previous post] and who would be "separated/cast into hell" then how can He still be worthy of worship as a loving, merciful being - when He chose heaven or hell for us?

Predestined does not mean inacted. In other words, though God may have an ultimate plan for each person, it does not mean that He actually follows through with this plan. We see the conflict of God's ultimate Will and man's will in the OT when Israel desired a king. God told them He already had a king for them, they just needed to wait. Israel demanded a king at that moment, God let them have a king, and they suffered for it. In other words, man can go against God's Will, but suffering shortly follows.

IF the one verse [Du 30:19] takes prescedence over the 7 predestination verses then another problem/question arises: How can God grant us free-will then call it sin when we use it? Even if we choose to do evil over good that too originates with God, according to the Bible: Isa 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

"Evil" is a mistranslation on part of the King James. Though 'ra can refer to evil, it can also refer to disaster. The context 'ra is found in, likewise its structure, dictates that it is refering to disaster. God allows us limited will (not free will) because it gives us a choice: follow God or follow our own selfish desires. This way we can be blamed for the bad choices we make. Though God intervenes and is quite active, and will eventually bring us back on track if we are His child, He still allows for us to rebel against Him...if we did not then we could not expirience His grace.

IF God is so loving and merciful then why create evil in the first place? Are we just some sort of playthings to amuse a manevolent Being who then demands that we love him and say that's He's just Wonderful......all the while quivering in fear because He's so unpredictable....

He didn't create evil. Evil is not a force, a creation, or a living thing. It is the absense of God's will. Thus, God allows His will to be absent in certain areas.

I've been verbalizing some of these concerns to family members recently and you know what my father said? We were on the phone and he lowered his voice (I guess he didn't want God to hear him) and he said, "Charles, don't talk like that .....look at what He did to His own son!" My father isn't the most religious fellow around but when it comes to these questions I have he's terrified that God is gonna kill me (or worse) just for asking. I bet a lot of people feel like this but are too scared to say it.

There's nothing wrong with asking. If no one ever asked any questions about God then we'd be quite ignorant...that and we wouldn't have the entire book of Job.

[Arthur Durnan]

We all forgot that Jesus Himself experienced OUR hell for us when He died on Calvary. All the characteristics suffered by the Rich Man in hell in Luke Chapter 16 were personally experienced by Jesus on the cross...remembrance, thirst, separation, pain & suffering, etc. Hell is no joke! It is not a figment of someone's imagination. It is not a state of mind. If the Bible hell means anything at all, it means an eternity of remembering, thirsting, separation & horrible pain in a real PLACE, as real as heaven. Both heaven & hell are called PLACES in Holy Writ. Our Wonderful Lord died to give us all an alterative eternity. No one need go there. God is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come unto repentance." But we must repent and believe & receive the One Savior of sinners. John 6:37.

And where is hell?..........

Hell is at the end of a Christless life!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[apothanein kerdos]

however, i DO disagree with you that hell isn't a literal fire. i believe the gnashing of teeth is as much spiritual as it is physical. scripture also refers to those who didn't choose god as being thrown into the lake of fire. i believe heaven and hell are both literal places, and will be a part of earth. not THIS earth, but the millineal earth... the one that this one will be transformed into, the one where God will set up His kingdom. i believe Hell to be the center core of the earth... molten lava and all that we know burns at temperatures that are well beyond our imagination.

I should have quantified "literal."

I definately don't think hell is just some place where souls go. I do think it is physical in that people will have bodies that they scratch at in pain, they feel the pain, both in their soul and in their body, of the seperation. Afterall, if we have physical bodies (which I believe) in the afterlife (no matter where we go), putting a physical body in fire would cause it to burn up. I realize God can opperate outside the laws of physics, but we must keep in mind that the new earth will still abide by physical law (just reading about it in Revelation 21 shows this, as there is a river for a water/bathing source, there is a feast, showing we will be able to eat, etc). If this is the case, those in hell will also be abiding by the laws of physics, which means if they're in the fire and burning, eventually their skin will fall off. This, and the way it is written in the Greek (it's highly allegorical) is why I believe the fire is not literal though hell, seperation, is. I happen to believe that hell will be much, much worse than fire...

[hebrews_beauty]

I think you are right; but I'm at the point where I just don't believe the Bible is the word of God anymore. I do believe there is a God; I just don't think the Bible portrays him. IF the God of the Bible is really "the one" then we are just totally screwed, no ifs ands or buts about it.

The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. ~Psalm 103:8 (NRSV)

I think the Bible portrays God wonderfully, but I think some people may misunderstand different things, and get the impression somehow that God is just waiting to crush humanity for every fault. That is not the God of the Bible. He is loving, seeking us, waiting for us to come to Him...not so He can crush us, but so He can be a part of our lives.

Regarding Hell or any other biblical subject, Christians often have different interpretations. Sometimes, there isn't much room for interpretation if something is to be considered essentially Christian (like the deity of Christ, for example, is a must belief for Christians). But sometimes, there is room for difference in interpretation, and having different interpretations doesn't make someone any less or more Christian than anyone else.

I guess maybe one suggestion I have for you is to purchase a good study Bible, in a decent translation like the RSV, NRSV, ESV, or NIV. I just purchased "The New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha: An Ecumenical Study Bible" (NRSV). I have only read some of it so far, but I think it is really good quality. Scholarly indeed.

Keep seeking.

[apothanein kerdos]

I think you are right; but I'm at the point where I just don't believe the Bible is the word of God anymore. I do believe there is a God; I just don't think the Bible portrays him. IF the God of the Bible is really "the one" then we are just totally screwed, no ifs ands or buts about it.

You should do a study of grace. God is just, but He also disciplines His children. Discipline is much different from judgement. Whereas judgment is a proclomation, discipline is a way that God brings us back on track. He demands holiness, but offers the grace for us to achieve this; even if on a minimal level.

[Guest lnj]

I have been thinking recently about this topic and have not been able to come up with a reason why God should send anyone to ETERNAL suffering in Hell.

This problem has been troubling me because I was recently asked this question and could not find an answer. I would greatly appreciate some help with this issue.

When you give a set of rules or laws to a child, do you give them consequences? Sure you do, except our concequences from God are eternally based. We face consequences everyday in every situation. Why not also for something as serious as our very LIVES?

[secondeve]

I'd like to say one or two things:

1. Christians do not make up even half the billions of people on this planet. Which means that, if more than half aren't Christian and will never convert during their lifetimes, more than half the people on earth are going to hell.

2. The above point has been the case for all of history.

3. Not every person who considers themselves Christian is considered Christian by others. Some only pay lip service, some commit atrocious sins and then 'repent,' or believe they can sin as they like because they're already saved and only need to say sorry. So not even every self-professing Christian is going to heaven.

4. This is all mollified if, as someone has mentioned, you're judged before God by your deeds when you die, in which case it may well be possible to live a good but unChristian life and still go to heaven. In this model, living by your conscience is good enough for God, even if you might never believe in him.

5. If Hell isn't a physical place, what consitutes a separation? Unlife- the destruction of your soul, which leaves no further chance for redemption? Reincarnation back to Earth? What? The Bible talks only in literal terms in an age where it was literally believed that the world was flat and that the sun revolved around us. Why would the Bible then be written in metaphor? If Biblical descriptions of hell are metaphorical, though, then no one can claim to know what exactly will happen to sinners when they die.

6. If God didn't create Hell, then you're saying that the Devil has the power to create things- worlds, even, or realms. If God made hell, then God is capable of creating evil places.