hebrews_beauty

One point I must make here: The way Christians view the Bible vs. how Muslims view the Qur'an are similar, but not exactly the same. With the Bible, most Christians believe it is the "Word of God", as inspired to different writers. Not every word in the Bible is literally God speaking---for example, in Paul's letters, it is his words under the inspiration of God (the Holy Spirit). Paul is the one speaking, though under the Holy Spirit's direction. With the Qur'an, most Muslims believe it is the "Word of God," but not just as inspired to a different writer (Muhammad) or writers. The Qur'an is literally the recitation of God's exact words---every word is spoken by Allah, not just inspired. Since the Qur'an is Allah's literal words, swearing by it would be akin to swearing by himself. Can't say much for the rest, except it looks like context (and understanding) is lacking for the suras mentioned. Just a thought I had to share. I am actually reading the Qu'ran right now, and though I am not quite half-way through yet, the general message of the Qur'an and several teachings are extremely similar if not identical to biblical messages and teachings.

I have several favorite quotes. One quote I like is not specifically "Christian," but I can strongly identify with it: Everyone ought to worship God according to his own inclinations, and not to be constrained by force. ~Flavius Josephus Another quote I like: I have found the paradox that if I love until it hurts, then there is no hurt, but only more love. ~Mother Teresa

You said: Shalom HB, Sorry, but that is not the Biblical truth. You are not talking about different beliefs WITHIN Christianity, but you are describing NON-Christian beliefs and calling them Christian. 'Tis not so. One cannot, deny that Jesus is fully G-d and came to Earth as fully man, died on the Cross for our sins, rose again and now intercedes for us with the Father and still be considered a Christian. If someone believes Jesus is not G-d, they are not Christians. It is a basic requirement of the faith. One is not a Christian unless they are saved. One is not saved unless they believe Jesus is G-d the Son and accept His forgiveness for their sins. Romans 10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." No one who denies Jesus is G-d is a Christian in their own right. Not all Christians agree on what "biblical truth" is---we'll have to agree to disagree.

Jesus is obviously the main figure of the Christian faith. However, other religions also speak of Jesus or hold beliefs about him. Some examples (hope I got it right!)... In Islam: *Jesus is a messenger of Allah (God), one of the greatest prophets. *Jesus was born of a virgin miraculously. *Jesus performed miracles. *Jesus did not die on the cross. *Jesus will return again (Second Coming). In Hinduism: ---Views vary but *Jesus was a great teacher (guru). *Jesus was an avatar (incarnation of God) In Baha'i: *Jesus was a manifestation of God. And it could go on, but my question is, what are your opinions about Jesus existing in other religious teachings? Should religions including belief in Jesus, though not Christian belief, be condemned completely, or honored or learned from in some way?

What I think: 1. To most Christians, God is the Creator and Supreme Being who exists in a Trinity of Persons: The Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. Other Christians may hold different views, such as there is no Trinity, or that Jesus is not God. Other religious groups hold different beliefs about the Divine---whether there is one God or many gods or goddesses, a universal mind/soul/truth, etc. 2. In the New Testament, the word "God" is used, but I don't think the name "Yahweh" appears. 3. The name gives a clue---King James "authorized" the translation (he gave instructions on how the translation would be made/edited, etc.). The KJV was a decent translation for its time, but there are better English translations available today (like the NIV or NRSV) 4. To most Christians, Jesus is the Son, the 2nd Person of the Trinity. He is also the Messiah or Christ. Some other Christians do not believe Jesus was God or that he was part of a Trinity; some may not even believe in him as Messiah but choose to think of him as a great teacher and/or prophet of God. Or various combinations, or different views all together. 5. Jesus is a Greek name; Yeshua is the Hebrew name. (Link Deleted) is an educational website about several religions, including Christianity. It includes the different views amongst Christians and people of other religions regarding several topics. Good luck answering your questions. Shalom Hebrews, Just a quick word about your responses: If someone does NOT believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of G-d and fully man and fully G-d, co-existing with G-d the Father and G-d the Holy Spirit, then they are NOT "Christians". One cannot deny the deity of the Christ and be a "Christian." Just because someone is not a mainstream, conservative, or fundamental Christian, doesn't mean they are not Christian in their own right. My only point really is there are many different beliefs and views held by those who consider themselves Christians, and not all of those beliefs include the Trinity, etc. In answering the poster's question, I was trying to show that there is more than one point of view.

What I think: 1. To most Christians, God is the Creator and Supreme Being who exists in a Trinity of Persons: The Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. Other Christians may hold different views, such as there is no Trinity, or that Jesus is not God. Other religious groups hold different beliefs about the Divine---whether there is one God or many gods or goddesses, a universal mind/soul/truth, etc. 2. In the New Testament, the word "God" is used, but I don't think the name "Yahweh" appears. 3. The name gives a clue---King James "authorized" the translation (he gave instructions on how the translation would be made/edited, etc.). The KJV was a decent translation for its time, but there are better English translations available today (like the NIV or NRSV) 4. To most Christians, Jesus is the Son, the 2nd Person of the Trinity. He is also the Messiah or Christ. Some other Christians do not believe Jesus was God or that he was part of a Trinity; some may not even believe in him as Messiah but choose to think of him as a great teacher and/or prophet of God. Or various combinations, or different views all together. 5. Jesus is a Greek name; Yeshua is the Hebrew name. (Link Deleted) is an educational website about several religions, including Christianity. It includes the different views amongst Christians and people of other religions regarding several topics. Good luck answering your questions.

Since it has to be a Christian one... I would say the best one I've read overall is The Jesus I Never Knew because it was genuine in the way it was written...toward the end it got too evangelical though, which was a disappointment...but still overall, a decent book.

I'm going to guess this is a response to what I said on a different thread. While I understand where you're coming from, my point on that other thread was only that politics is not just about one or two issues, it's about several issues. I can't vote for a Republican based on one or two issues when I disagree with them on a multitude of others.

Not to but in here, but... I think I would shop at the store with the lowest prices and not care much about who the owner was. A gallon of milk is still a gallon of milk whether a gay person sold it to me or a Christian did...who cares? Oh wait, a gallon of milk from a store owned by a gay person must be the milk of the devil...

Proves nothing but that there is wrongdoing and tragedy in the world. To post such a thing, it makes me wonder if you take pleasure in others misfortunes because they were not Christians. Doesn't sound like Jesus to me.

Mormons consider their religion to be Christian---they follow Jesus, etc. They are not mainstream Christians and don't always hold up to the Bible or the creeds in the eyes of others, and therefore are most often not considered Christian. I personally don't care what they believe---it's their religion, and as long as they don't knock on my door 24/7, I'm cool.

Treat them no different than any other person---a human life that is valued, without discrimination based on race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc.

HB, it's not about judging people....it's about knowing the difference between right and wrong. You say you are a liberal....do you mean religiously, or politically? Being a liberal Christian does not remove you from the responsibility of taking a stand for what is ethically sound. It's good that you have compassion for these girls, but true love and compassion is expressed in sternly showing these women just WHY IT IS that abortion is wrong, so they don't have to suffer the guilt and possible physical consequences of their actions. Sweetheart, I am a 36-yr. old female who has made some absolutely WRETCHED decisions in my life. I've lived life hard, and have just recently come back to Christ. I made PLENTY of painful mistakes. Sure, I learned from them, but I still wish that some Christian had come to me with a loving heart and pointed out the error of my ways before I had made the mistakes I did. Your liberalism is not doing anyone any service....I understand the discomfort in "bumping heads," or not wanting to offend someone, but if you have to sacrifice personal integrity for compromise, your efforts are futile. -I would say I'm a liberal both religiously and politically. Being liberal is not just about "not offending others," nor does it mean personal integrity is sacrificed. One of the reasons I'm liberal is because I desire change and progress in the USA, which includes caring for the environment and caring for all cititzens regardless of social status, race, etc. -Not everyone---not even all Christians---think abortion is unethical. At least not under all circumstances. I do believe in properly informing women of the abortion procedure, so they can be educated before they make a decision.

First of all, to HebrewsBeauty, when you say you are not a conservative or fundamental Christian, but that you are a liberal who is going through many faith changes, what exactly do you mean? Do you mean you are going through doctrinal changes within the Christian faith, or that you are uncertain about if you even fully accept the Christian faith? As far as this post goes, I find it very sad, because it is yet another example of the assault taking place against people of faith from what are supposed to be institutions of higher learning. If I had children, the last thing I would want them to do is to attend brain washing lectures at universities. They would be much better off without a college education at all than to allow their faith to be destroyed by these servants of the devil posing as professors. -I would say that I'm a liberal Christian, who is currently in seeker mode. I'm trying to understand more about what I believe, why I believe it, and what that means for me as a person. Hope that's a little more clear. -I've never experienced "brain washing" at all in my educational path. I've come across different information, from different points of view, from different instructors and courses. Never has any teacher or class I've been to suggested that anyone abandon their chosen faith, religion, or political view, but rather that they would just try to have an open-mind in order to learn about subjects they may not know, understand, or even believe.

To some of those who responded to my response: I don't have the time honestly to try and answer each person, because the discussion could go on for awhile and I am a college student, so I am quite busy! Plus I don't spend a whole lot of time on forums, but I may answer a forum topic if it interests me. However, I did want to say a few things. First, I am not a conservative or fundamental Christian; I am a liberal who is going through many faith changes and learning to be more tolerant and compassionate to those who may see the world differently than me---whether it's a religious difference or otherwise. Second, through my education via school and personal study, I have come to accept and understand different issues in our world. The abortion matter, for example---it is a medical procedure. No, I don't think it's the best option, but I have learned to have compassion on women here. If a woman was raped, and early termination is sought, then I can understand that. Or if it's shown beyond doubt that the fetus was suffering or diseased in some horrible way, then I can understand the compassion of the mother who feels she must terminate. I would be ashamed to call every woman who seeks early termination a murderer. It's not my place to judge what's happening inside of another human being. Simply, I have grown to be more open-minded and tolerant as I seek to think outside of what I was taught about the Bible, about Christianity...about religion, about politics...about our world.

It's hard to be really general. I don't know that I can speak for the world as a whole, but I can say some things about the USA, since I was born and raised here: -More people are converting away from Christianity, or are non-religious. I don't know if that's worse for our nation or better. I think it's better that people are thinking out of the box or how they were taught in general. -It's worse environmentally because people are ignorant, blind, or in denial about global warming, and other environmental matters. But some states care more. -It's worse that people want to deny gays the same rights as others and speak with hate about them. But it's better for them in some states. -It's worse that we still don't have a universal healthcare system and must be controlled by the business of private insurance (which is more evil than people realize). But in some states there's progress in the right direction. -It's better that abortion exists, especially for those in life or death situations, or for those who were raped, etc. But it's sad when abortion occurs for a viable fetus because it's not a boy or girl, etc. -It's better that we are very culturally and religiously diverse. But it's worse that there's still ethnocentrism and prejudice. -It's better that we are very free. But it's worse that there's still not better equality. And so on. Of course our nation is in dire need of change right now, especially because we are still under the Bush administration. Come on 2008.

Thanks

my disclaimer before I wrote anything should have been that I was venting some, and seeking, too...which will continue in what I'm about to write... I don't see how doubts or questions suddenly mean I'm not "reborn," but ok. Trust me, when I became a Christian, I was "reborn" and certainly saw the "truth" as Christianity described it. However, I have grown since then rationally, mentally...at heart I can be a skeptic---which I think is a blessing more than a curse. If something religious, Christian or otherwise, contradicts what science or whatever has shown to be true or good, what is one supposed to do? Just "have faith", or maybe think of other possibilities, or what? I am thankful for separation of church and state...it protects the state and the church. Anyway, sexual expression is normal---the trouble for many Christians is just how to keep it moral. But where is the line drawn? If two people are in love and trust each other, why should the line be drawn at intercourse? But I guess, to be Christian, one must deem it sinful? But why should the creator be solely found in Christianity? Or in Christianity at all? Why does one of the belief systems have to be correct? And on what basis can one begin to even decide which one is correct, if any? But what is in the Word was chosen by men. Are we sure the "correct" texts were chosen? If so, how can we be sure, and should we bet ours souls on it? Ok, I think I'm done with vent and question time for now. Thanks for responding. Maybe I just am playing a non-believer's advocate or something, I don't know what to call it.

Long time since I've been here. I posted the following for feedback/thoughts in a general religion forum, and I am curious to know the thoughts of others here: ~~~~~~~ Well...hmm. I guess I've been having my own doubting or unfaithful days, as a Christian. It's like this: I pretty much always love my church. But I don't always love Jesus--at least as much as I should. And I certainly don't always agree with the Bible (at least in certain ways). Does this make me a doubter, or a heretic? So long since I've tried to learn more about my chosen faith or other faiths, but I've been opening myself up to that again. I desire to learn more. But I feel lately the more I learn or think, the less I would be accepted by other Christians, or could even be considered a Christian anymore. Wow, this is sounding kind of extreme, heh... Besides issues named above earlier, the following issues have troubled me in the past and are troubling me even more now: -Homosexuality---I am sensitive to this. I voted "no" to a gay marriage ban in Virginia anyway. (it still passed) -Sexuality in general---I have found myself becoming more accepting of premarital sex, at least lately. -True religion---I find it hard to understand how I can be sure of what's true or not, or if it even matters...doubting, yet again? -Jesus---I love Him I say. But how much do I follow Him? And is He God, like I have believed? I'm finding it hard to separate Him, or rather Christianity, from paganism...or just one of many religions. -Western religion/conformity---have I just conformed to one of the largest religions, if not the largest religion in the world, because of my culture, etc? I mean, who would I be if I hadn't grown up in the USA? -Salvation---will I not be saved if I am not a Christian, or not a western or traditional Christian? Again, if someone never heard of Jesus, would God really punish them? Whether yes or no, how is that just? -Hell---whether literal or metaphorical, does it exist? Do I agree with its concept, or the concept of Satan, or not? Maybe I'm just a liberal. Or maybe...a doubter. Or maybe, heretical? Or am I just having a bad day and will feel different tommorow? My heart just wants the truth...or maybe, just happiness and peace...and faith. Any thoughts are welcome.

I think a sign saying "no religious solicitation" would be more appropriate. Even so, I don't know if I'd want even that sign. Usually I just don't answer the door to JW's or Mormons...I usually don't answer people I don't know in general anyway. Even so, I think we should still try to witness to them, but we must be ready with knowledge of what they believe, the Bible, and prayer.

Pray for your pastor, and tell him he should pray too, not confront. Encourage growth by welcoming people and outreach, and by creating opportunities for members to serve.

But both groups weren't telling about Jesus. The people holding the sign were just spewing condemnation. That's it. And for other responses, I agree that we need to share the whole Gospel message. However, before people will listen, they need to know that they are loved by God and accepted by those who claim to love God. We should not be threatening people with Hell, but drawing them to Christ's love, the Holy Spirit working in us. Only then once they know they are loved by God and accepted by believers can we share why they need Christ in the first place---to be forgiven of sin and have life.

So let me explain: This past Sunday, some from my church gathered together and split into groups and then went to a festival to outreach to others. We distributed free water bottles, balloons, and flowers, along with a card that said "You matter to God" and had our church info. Once we were finished, our group walked through the festival and noticed two men together, one saying things and one carrying a sign that basically listed sins God will condemn people for. Our outreach was positive, and then we witnessed this negative outreach. The pastor of my church was actually in my group, and he said that what we were doing as outreach was more effective. I agree with him. What do you think is more effective as outreach---a positive message or a negative one? Have you participated in a positive or negative outreach effort? What was the result?

Hey, welcome to the forum! I haven't been to this forum in awhile, but I'm glad to be back, so here we go. Salvation is being delivered from one's sins, and it occurs when a person chooses to trust in Christ. Salvation is only possible through Christ. Once a person is delivered from their sins, or saved, they receive eternal life from Christ. Eternal life is the soul living forever with God.

How Great Thou Art Jesus Lover of My Soul It is Well with My Soul Nothing but the Blood and others...probably can't think of all their names...plus I go to a contemporary church, so we sing mostly contemporary worship music.