chesed Posted July 6, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 310 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 154 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/17/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2022 4 hours ago, BeyondET said: Well regardless of who eat the fruit first. They are both guilty mankind, if Adam had said no it would of been a different story. So the weight fell on his shoulders but nonetheless they were as one. Romans isn’t saying it was all Adam's fault. Still not sure how those two verses tie-in with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondET Posted July 6, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,869 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 816 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/1968 Share Posted July 6, 2022 1 hour ago, chesed said: Still not sure how those two verses tie-in with each other. it's along the lines like this. The first Adam was as one with Eve. The second Adam is as one with the Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesed Posted July 6, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 310 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 154 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/17/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2022 30 minutes ago, BeyondET said: it's along the lines like this. The first Adam was as one with Eve. The second Adam is as one with the Father. I realize that truth but what has it to do with… Romans 5:19 KJV [19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. unless you are pointing to some kind of a mystical union? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondET Posted July 6, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,869 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 816 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/1968 Share Posted July 6, 2022 1 hour ago, chesed said: I realize that truth but what has it to do with… Romans 5:19 KJV [19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. unless you are pointing to some kind of a mystical union? What was your point when you posted it, a few post back, was it just for the obedience part of the verse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chesed Posted July 6, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 310 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 154 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/17/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2022 11 hours ago, BeyondET said: What was your point when you posted it, a few post back, was it just for the obedience part of the verse? I was responding to this part of your statement, "Death was from disobedience to God’s command", but you kept interjecting the verse from Gen 2 and I kept asking, 'why?' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeyondET Posted July 6, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,869 Content Per Day: 1.22 Reputation: 816 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/1968 Share Posted July 6, 2022 6 minutes ago, chesed said: I was responding to this part of your statement, "Death was from disobedience to God’s command", but you kept interjecting the verse from Gen 2 and I kept asking, 'why?' Hehe Fare enough I apologize for intersecting, I mistakenly thought you were referring to the whole verse as well excuse me my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 11, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.62 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 11, 2022 What happens when NEVER DIE, RULES AS TRUTH and in your belief in the words of God? How does this belief work out? (I would say how does it change what you currently believe or what is taught, but since I don't know those things...) When Jesus died, he went to all those who were sleeping/prisoners in hell/bound by death, because of having lived and died under the LAW which 'if you had one sin to your name, you died a sinner, and the wages of sin was death' and so you went to hell, instead of heaven AND were dead and would remain dead 'until the last day'. (not addressing those who WERE perfect under the law and died without a sin, who went to heaven. Nor those who 'came to faith', even though under the law, who ALSO went to heaven) When the Old Covenant ended, the Last Day came because Jesus Christ descended and preached the good news to those bound and washed clean and freed them from the sin that held them there. No longer having sin, the 'dead' rose up and went to heaven. The New Covenant having been put in place meant, that belief in Christ Jesus as the Lord and Saviour meant a believer NEVER WENT TO HELL or NEVER DIED but instead just went to heaven. (in a body, NOT ever to return to the earth for any kind of a body resurrected from the earth) The LAST DAY is a day that BELONGS to the OLD COVENANT and did not 'carry over' to the New Covenant. It belongs to the old because GODS PEOPLE died and went to hell whereas Christians never die and so their 'last day' is just the day their their earthen flesh life and they go to be with the Lord where He is, heaven. Look for a LAST DAY resurrection to be mentioned AFTER Christ rose, and you will not find one. You will find Jesus speaking of the last day before He died because at that time, there were those who DID DIE, who were DEAD, were dead in their graves, sleeping, having died in sin, paying the wages of sin - death, and not in heaven with those who were perfect under the law, believers in God. When Martha brought up the 'last day' Jesus told her that was about to all be changed (HE had the power over death and soon would go set them free) when He said to her John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: He that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live So when Jesus descended HE went to the 'though he were dead' s and preached the good new AND THEY rose up to live IN HEAVEN. They will be returning with Him. They will have ALREADY RECEIVED THEIR SPIRITUAL bodies. For all those who have come to BELIEF ever since and have remained faith to Him, have all skipped the 'dead in the grave' part and went to heaven and will ALSO be returning with Him THE DEAD. All those who never came to faith are dead and in the grave and in hell. When Christ returns SUDDEN DESTRUCTION comes upon all those NOT IN FAITH, or having been deceived and just as the alive and remaining will be caught up, they are SENT DOWN. And THEN the resurrection of 'the dead', both just and unjust takes place. And THEN the alive and remaining are changed. And that is the start of the Lords Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobie_ Posted September 22, 2022 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 6 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,786 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 717 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2022 (edited) On 6/24/2022 at 8:13 PM, DeighAnn said: Actually what Paul said was 1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. And if Christ is leading from heaven then they have to be in heaven to follow. Glad to hear you stand with Paul. Read the whole text... 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Notice the answer..." the dead in Christ shall rise first:... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them" Edited September 22, 2022 by Hobie_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted September 22, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.62 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Hobie_ said: Read the whole text... 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Notice the answer..." the dead in Christ shall rise first:... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them" So WHO are the DEAD IN CHRIST? ARE THEY those WHO NEVER DIE or Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. WOULDN'T THOSE 'DEAD' WHEN THEY died not having received the gift of salvation but STILL BEING either just or unjust JUST NOT SAVED and then being found IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BE the DEAD IN CHRIST a WHOLE LOT MORE THAN THE NEVER DIE WOULD? I UNDERSTAND what you believe RIGHT THIS MINUTE but it just DOESN'T WORK WITH WHAT IS WRITTEN. in CHRIST but DEAD. What do we know about those who WHILE THEY LIVE come to BELIEVE? THEY NEVER DIE. So why, besides 'your belief' would those who NEVER DIE need to be raised OUT FROM THE DEAD? it makes NO SENSE. It is sown a natural body IT IS RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY. these ARE not my words, though THEY ARE WHAT I BELIEVE. So the REAL QUESTION is DO YOU BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN OR NOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobie_ Posted September 22, 2022 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 6 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,786 Content Per Day: 0.33 Reputation: 717 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2022 11 minutes ago, DeighAnn said: So WHO are the DEAD IN CHRIST? ARE THEY those WHO NEVER DIE or Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. WOULDN'T THOSE 'DEAD' WHEN THEY died not having received the gift of salvation but STILL BEING either just or unjust JUST NOT SAVED and then being found IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BE the DEAD IN CHRIST a WHOLE LOT MORE THAN THE NEVER DIE WOULD? I UNDERSTAND what you believe RIGHT THIS MINUTE but it just DOESN'T WORK WITH WHAT IS WRITTEN. in CHRIST but DEAD. What do we know about those who WHILE THEY LIVE come to BELIEVE? THEY NEVER DIE. So why, besides 'your belief' would those who NEVER DIE need to be raised OUT FROM THE DEAD? it makes NO SENSE. It is sown a natural body IT IS RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY. these ARE not my words, though THEY ARE WHAT I BELIEVE. So the REAL QUESTION is DO YOU BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN OR NOT? When you die, you end this life on earth and only Christ at the resurrection at the Second Coming can bring you back to life. That is why He lays claim to it.. John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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