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Hobie_

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  1. It seems that scientist are turning a blind eye to the evidence that is being found...
  2. Well we also have that the Flood is verified by Jesus and the apostles who taught on the Genesis flood in the New Testament: Matthew 24:37-39 King James Version (KJV) "37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Luke 17:26-27 King James Version (KJV) "26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all." 1 Peter 3:20 King James Version (KJV) "20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." Hebrews 11:7 King James Version (KJV) "7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."......
  3. Shalom Tzephanyahu, That's a good site showing how the Flood is shown across the world, but the scientist are dead set against what is right in front of their eyes, because then they would have to allow for the existence of God. They cant see the forest for the trees syndrome, they would then be accountable to what God asks, and they only want to do (and see) what they want according to self, too much pride. Now something I didn't see at the site was how the animals could have found any food after they got out of the ark if the Flood had been worldwide. Well plants had time to grow after the Flood, as the waters started to pour off the land, creating the Grand Canyon gorges and deep cuts you see such as at the Mississippi, Colorado River etc.. basin. Genesis 8 King James Version (KJV) 1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged; 2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; 3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. The water rose for 150 days before beginning to recede so they had over seven months for plants to regrow. Most vegetables like arugula, spinach, carrots, broccoli, radishes, onions, cucumbers etc.. grow to maturity in less than two months.
  4. No, that is the ideas of gradualism that was introduced around the time of Darwinism to deny the evidence all around the world of the Biblical Flood. By saying it happened over millions of years, then the signs of a global flood can be reduced to a minor event of local or normal flooding that means nothing. But if you really think about it how could a minor flood explain the vast amounts of clearly water flow that carved out what we see out west such as the Grand Canyon. Here is something I came across on how the catastrophic conditions of these layers of sand/rock came to be with plate tectonic..."At the very beginning of plate motion, subducting slabs locally heated the mantle by deformation, lowering the viscosity of the mantle in the vicinity of the slabs. The lowered viscosity then allowed an increase in subduction rate, which in turn heated up the surrounding mantle even more. We believe that this led to a thermal runaway instability which allowed for meters-per-second subduction, as postulated and modeled by Baumgardner.48, 49 It is probable that this subduction occurred along thousands of kilometers of continental margin. The bending of the ocean plate beneath the continent would have produced an abrupt topographic low paralleling the continental margin, similar to the ocean trenches at the eastern, northern, and western margins of the Pacific Ocean. Because all current ocean lithosphere seems to date from Flood or post-Flood times,50 we feel that essentially all pre-Flood ocean lithosphere was subducted in the course of the Flood. Gravitational potential energy released by the subduction of this lithosphere is on the order of 1028 J.51 This alone probably provided the energy necessary to drive Flood dynamics. The continents attached to ocean slabs would have been pulled toward subduction zones. This would produce rapid horizontal displacement of continents—in many cases relative motion of meters per second. Collisions of continents at subduction zones are the likely mechanism for the creation of mountain fold-and-thrust-belts, such as the Appalachians, Himalayas, Caspians, and Alps. Rapid deformation, burial, and subsequent erosion of mountains possible in the Flood model might provide the only adequate explanation for the existence of highpressure, low-temperature minerals such as coesite (for example, Chopin,52 Hsu,53 Shutong, Okay, Shouyuan, and Sengor,54 Smith,55 Wang, Liou, and Mao,56) in mountain cores. "https://answersingenesis.org/geology/plate-tectonics/catastrophic-plate-tectonics-global-flood-model-of-earth-history/
  5. Yes, I was at the Grand Canyon and saw the layers in the sides of the mountains, and you find these layers all across the world, the layers that are now rock but were once wet sand and mud. They have hardened into rock and stretch uniformly in the Canyon walls and you can see the same layers almost everywhere you go in the world. Now we read in Genesis 1:9-10: “9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good”, Genesis 1:9-10. God had gathered the waters together into “one place,” separate from the dry land of Earth, where He put the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, with all the trees and plants and the animals. So you had all the land and then water separate but if they came together suddenly with the water flooding over the dry land you can see what happened to the dry land of the earth. It was wave after wave of tsunami like water as it burst out from the deep in earthquake like force and collected the sediment, marine animals and other material and deposited them together on the once dry land. Now its easy to see how the layers were formed on the sides of the hills and mountains and other places we see them. Read what things scientist themselves puzzle over: "Around the tsunami-prone Pacific, flood stories tell of disastrous waves that rose from the sea. Early Christian missionaries were perplexed as to why flood traditions from South Pacific islands didn’t mention the Bible’s 40 days and nights of rain, but instead told of great waves that struck without warning. A traditional story from the coast of Chile described how two great snakes competed to see which could make the sea rise more, triggering an earthquake and sending a great wave ashore. Native American stories from coastal communities in the Pacific Northwest tell of great battles between Thunderbird and Whale that shook the ground and sent great waves crashing ashore. These stories sound like prescientific descriptions of a tsunami: an earthquake-triggered wave that can catastrophically inundate shorelines without warning."https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ancient-chinese-megaflood-may-be-fact-not-fiction/
  6. Well, there are lots of clues in the Bible and they are being picked up even by scientist, the question is will they understand what they are looking at. One who did was a geologist who noticed the jigsaw puzzle fit of North and South America with Europe and Africa if the Atlantic Ocean basin were closed up. His name was Antonio Snider-Pellegrini and he read Genesis in the Bible and realized that the landmass God formed on Day 3 of the Creation Week was probably a supercontinent, which broke apart during the Flood and a continental shift opened up today’s Atlantic Ocean. Thus was born the catastrophic plate tectonics model, which provides a physical mechanism for the Flood. Now lets read Genesis 7:11: “11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.” Genesis 7:11. At the start of the Flood the fountains of the deep were broken up ripping apart the pre-Flood supercontinent. When the original continent broke apart at the Flood, the pieces crashed, as the Tectonic plates shifted and produced today’s mountains. Today we see the continents which are the cores, formed out of pieces from the first supercontinent. Then if we look closer, we can find at the shore edges, where the sides were filled in by mud and sand that the Flood stripped from the earth’s surface. Reconstructing Noah’s world before the Flood is not easy, but we do have a view from the clues of what happened at the catastrophic events of the Flood. Hot molten rock blasted the underside of the earth’s crust and it was ripped apart, and steam and molten rock shot out. It must have been a unbelievable scene, with exploding forces as we see when extremely hot lava hits water. Tsunamis from the shifting plates, pushing layers of rock and sand over the continents as we can see a places all over the earth like the Grand Canyon. Animals rushing for the high ground being bunched together and making tracks in the wet mud as they ran for their livers. With the water rising higher and higher till it covered the whole earth, and only those in the ark being spared.
  7. What happened at the Flood, what forces where unleashed which only know are being understood in the immensity of its scale and power. Scientist are finding clues, but its a slow sledding as they say, as its tearing apart their favorite theory, evolution. Let’s take a look at Genesis 1:9-10: “9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good”, Genesis 1:9-10. God gathered the waters together into “one place,” separate from the dry land of Earth, where He put the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, with all the trees and plants and the animals. So what happened to the dry land of the earth and all the things on it, in Noah’s time? Geologists have stumbled across clues that allow them to begin reconstructing the sequence of events which happened from what can only the Biblical Flood. What survived the Flood makes it possible to begin putting together the puzzle, using what we know today of the earth’s surface plates. Evidence indicates that the continents were broken from one piece and moved around, and crashed against the other plates, but the core pieces seem to have survived. Geologists call the cores of these pieces “cratons” of which North America appears to be one of these cratons. They appear to have been joined together as one, as most scientist agree it was part of a major component of the earth’s supercontinent, but violent forces from below, unleashed during the Flood, tore them into many fragments. So what we have today are the pieces of what once was together, and tectonic plates that continue to move and the cause of earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanoes even to this day. So we can formulate that there were these at the Flood but at a extreme level that its hard for us to even imagine the level of destruction and devastation that happened. But it brings us better understanding of what occurred that would wipe out what was on the earth. It wasn't by chance that animals were caught by the thousands and fossilized by water and mud while they were alive, so we find them in vast graveyards of bones. We see the worldwide affect as the waters cut vast canyons on their way back to the oceans and unbelievable amounts of rocks and debris spilling out into the ocean floor from these runoffs.
  8. That is the main question that I am coming up against, but Moses either knew of where the site was even if the garden itself was no longer there, as the Tree of Life had to be removed. Or he was given the rivers where it had been, as its clear from the description they were rivers that were known and even today are known. You can see he gives a very distinct explanation of the areas of the rivers: Genesis 2:8-14 King James Version (KJV) 8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden(east of Moses perspective); and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. 10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.(the Hebrew means parted at the source)Strong's H6504 רַד pârad, paw-rad'; a primitive root; to break through, i.e. spread or separate (oneself):—disperse, divide, be out of joint, part, scatter (abroad), separate (self), sever self, stretch, sunder. 11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. 13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.(actually the land of the Cushites but they also were in Ethiopia) 14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria( Tigris-Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Hiddekel called by the Accadians id Idikla; i.e. "the river of Idikla", the third of the four rivers of Paradise ( Genesis 2:14 ). Gesenius interprets the word as meaning "the rapid Tigris." The Tigris rises in the mountains of Armenia, 15 miles south of the source of the Euphrates..."). And the fourth river is Euphrates. (Which we still have today)
  9. I was watching a video of a researcher who says the four rivers of Genesis 2 are the Kezel Uizhun (Hebrew, Pishon), the Gaihun/Aras (Hebrew, Gihon), the Tigris (Hebrew, Hiddekel) and the Euphrates (Hebrew, Perath). I found the following which seems to agree: "Let us deal in detail with the four great rivers in reverse order. (a) The Perath (Sum. Buranun) is the river known to the Greeks (and subsequently to the modem world) as the Euphrates. To Arabs it is the Firat which, of course, harks back to the biblical Perath. It is the longest river in the Middle East (excluding the African Nile). From its sources near Lake Van (close to Erzerum), the Euphrates flows in a great arc for 2,720 kilometres before disgorging into the Persian Gulf to the south of the modem port of Basra.' (b) The Hiddekel (Sum. Idiglat) is the Hebrew name of the River Tigris. It descends from the high Zagros mountains to the west and south of Lake Van and Lake Urmia, journeying some 2,033 kilometres to the head of the Persian Gulf. In its upper reaches there are three major streams which flow into the main channel from the north - the Greater (or Upper) Zab, the Lesser (or Lower) Zab and the Diyala. The principal source rises in a small lake, with the modem name Hazar Golu, which is located about sixty kilometres to the west of Lake Van. ' ....The word Mesopotamia, of course, is Greek for the land ‗between the two rivers' - the mighty Tigris and Euphrates. (c) The identity of the Gihon is a little more difficult to establish but, as Walker discovered, it has to be identified with the River Araxes whose tributaries rise in the mountains to the north of Lake Van and Lake Urmia (also near Erzerum). From there they flow down to join the main channel (known as the Kur) which empties into the Caspian Sea south of Baku. The name Araxes (more recently referred to as the Araks or Aras) and the name Gihon obviously bear no resemblance to each other. Here, then, we seem to have a clear case of a name change which has taken place at some time in the past. So how far back do we have to go to find clues to the original name of the river now known as the Aras?...During the Islamic invasion of the Caucasus in the eighth century AD stretches of this third great river were still called the Gaihun. There was, indeed, an intermediate stage, before the Gaihun became known simply as the Aras, when the Persians of the last century referred to this major watercourse as theJichon-Aras.... you will find the name Gihon¬Aras in early biblical dictionaries and commentaries dating from Victorian times. Today this crucial piece of information has apparently been forgotten and you would be hard pressed to find a modern work on Genesis which links the Gihon with the Aras....Victorian scholars not only identified the Aras/ Araxes with the Gihon but also suggested that the classical land of Cossaea, located according to the ancient geographers near Media and the Caspian Sea, was to be identified with the biblical land of Cush through which the Gihon flowed. (d) Finally, the biblical Pishon is, according to Walker's arguments, the River Uizhun which rises from several springs located near Mount Sahand (a large extinct volcano east of Lake Urmia) and within the Zagros mountain massif around the Kurdish capital of Sanandaj. It outflows into the southern Caspian Sea not far from the modern port of Rast. The Uizhun is also known as the Kezel Uzun – ‗long gold'. Here the ancient name Uizhun, of unknown meaning, has been colloquialised into the familiar Iranian word Uzun ('dark red' or `gold'). There is no obvious connection between the names Pishon and Uizhun but the geographical overview seems to confirm this identification."http://www.rogerswebsite.com/articles/WherewastheGardenofEden.pdf
  10. Well lets take a closer look at what Christ and the scripture tells us: John 5:28-29 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. There is a resurrection of life, and there is a resurrection of damnation. If the scriptures were silent regarding when they will take place, then we wouldn't know, but they are not, so we do know. John 6:38-44 (KJV) 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. 42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? 43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:53-54 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 1 Cor 15:20-23 (KJV) 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Cor 15:51-53 (KJV) 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Thess 4:16-17 (KJV) 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. The resurrection of life takes place on the last day, at the last trump, at the second coming of Christ. Rev 20:6 (KJV) 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:14-15 (KJV) 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 21:8 (KJV) 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Rev 20:7-10 (KJV) 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Those who take part in the first resurrection have their names written in the book of life, thus they partook of the resurrection of life. The second death has no power over them. The rest will be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death. These are those whose names are not written in the book of life, and they take part in the second resurrection, and second death. This is the resurrection of damnation spoken of by Jesus when here on earth. It devours flesh and blood and even the devil who is a spirit being who was made by God will suffer the same fate with this eternal fire.
  11. Through Christ, we receive the gift of eternal life. If it wasn't for the resurrection , we would go to the grave and cease to exist, as you yourself say, man is not immortal. Hell/Hades is the only Greek word they could use for the grave/sheol, but at the end God will use fire to cleanse the world of the corruption of sin and to put an end to the wicked/Satan. The saints will be taken up to be with Christ in His kingdom, and yes we will be clothed with the gift God gives for eternal life. Now the gift from the Creator was there in the form of the tree of life which was there at the beginning, and here is what scripture tells us: "And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil." Genesis 2:9 King James Version (KJV) The tree of life from the Creator (who is Christ) is what allowed man life without end, and what Adam and Eve lost at the Garden of Eden because of sin. "26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." Genesis 1:26 King James Version (KJV) Man was made in the image of the Godhead but was not made immortal, but given a avenue, in which man could "take also of the tree of life, and eat and live for ever." "22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:" Genesis 3:22 King James Version (KJV) Adam and Eve were mortal but had access to the tree of life. When Adam sinned, he and Eve were barred from the Garden of Eden and the tree of life. From that moment on they began to feel the wages of sin: "27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" Hebrews 9:27 King James Version (KJV) Through Christ, the saints will be restored to what Adam had at Creation and given access to the gift of eternal life, "that they may have right to the tree of life,": "14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14 King James Version (KJV) One question, what is xians? Xi'an is the capital of Shaanxi Province, China. A sub-provincial city on the Guanzhong Plain in northwestern China,[4]
  12. Only those in the first resurrection are given the gift of eternal life, but to answer your question more clearly at both resurrections they are raised up as body and flesh. We do not have immortality of ourselves, our souls are not immortal, we have the breath of life which makes us alive. Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit. 05397 hmvn n@shamah nesh-aw-maw' from 05395; n f; {See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'} AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24 1) breath, spirit 1a) breath (of God) 1b) breath (of man) 1c) every breathing thing 1d) spirit (of man) How was man formed? (Body + breath = living soul) When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul. This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation. What is the breath? Breath is equated with the spirit of God. Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils. At death the body returns to dust while the spirit is said to return to God who gave it. (Silver cord = spine, golden bowl = skull, pitcher = heart, wheel = lungs) Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. When we are born our breath, may be said to come from or be given by God and in the same way may be said, when it leaves the body at death to return to Him. At death the breath or spirit of man is said to be gathered unto God. Job 34:14-15 If he set his heart upon man, if he [God] gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. Christ understood that his spirit would return to God at death. Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. Once a mans spirit or breath is gone his thoughts perish. Psalm 146:3-4 3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. The dead know nothing they are unconscious. All their thoughts and feelings are gone. Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Mans life only remains while he has breath. Isaiah 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of? It is the expression "a living soul" which is so confused, but we must understand Bible terms in its own sense, and not in ours. The " soul" is not some spirit within man which "survives the death of the body". In Genesis, the word translated "soul" is used of the animals as well. We all die the same. Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? The breath of life is the spirit which God has given both man and beast. It is common to all living things and is not a distinguishing characteristic of man. Man lies in the grave when he dies until the resurrection at the end of time. Then, and only then, will he awake and be raised out of sleep of death. God can reverse death like he did in forming Adam from dust, creating new bodies and renewing the spirit or breath in them at the resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15:12-18 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christs at his coming. Christ was raised up with living body with bones and flesh not spirit, why do you think He had Thomas check Him, so that they would all know. Now He promised his disciples that He would come again to receive them unto Himself. Now like David, they all lie in the grave waiting for Christ to fulfill His promise, and raise them back up to take them to heaven. John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Paul tells the saints, not to sorrow about death because at the Second Coming God would bring forth from the grave those who slept in Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. So we must be brought up, recreated by God like Adam as the body was formed from the dust and the breath of life given so he became a "living soul". But now we are going to heaven, and have everlasting life with Christ in His kingdom, and the corruption of sin which has damaged our bodies must be gone. This is how we are raised up incorruptible and changed, all the vestiges of sin gone. 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. I'm sorry the sermon, but we must read the whole Bible not a verse here of there. Now we are given the gift of eternal life, but it is a gift it is not of ourselves. We get to live forever with Christ, all tears wiped away, all sorrows, death has lost its sting, we are given this gift "through our Lord Jesus Christ". 1 Corinthians 15:53-58 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
  13. There is the first or regular death which you are buried six feet under, or the grave. Then there is the second death which is the judgement at the lake of fire, you do not come back from that my brother, it is for eternity. The wicked do not have eternal life in any way, this is the lie the devil told Eve, that she would not surely die, and it continues even today. Jesus makes it quite clear, only His saints are going to be given the gift of eternal life, the wicked are going to be brought back after the 1000 years at the second resurrection of damnation. Look in the scripture, Jesus taught two resurrections at the end. The resurrection of the saints from the grave is at the second coming, and it is in bodily form like Lazarus, not some spirit floating around, and it is from the grave. And then the dead are brought up to their just punishment, here we have the two resurrections: Acts 24:15 King James Version (KJV) 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. Luke 14:14 King James Version (KJV) 14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. John 5:29 King James Version (KJV) 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. And the first resurrection is of the saints who are in the grave not the wicked as the verses make clear. The second resurrection is after the 1000 years as wicked are going to suffer the second death which is damnation in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
  14. Then what is hell, is it burning under our feet now, of course not. It is were the wicked perish, and that is the lake of fire at the end. Take a look at one of the most quoted verse in the Bible. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. In the Greek for perish in that verse apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: apollumi Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee) Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain). destroy - not torture The contrast is between everlasting life and perishing. Now lets look at why: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The wicked do not get eternal life in the lake of fire, they do not have immortality when they die, nor when they are judged at the second death which destroys and is the wages of sin. Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. The second death destroys both the breath of life and the physical body, Matthew 10:28 makes that clear: Matthew 10:28 King James Version (KJV) 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
  15. Shalom Retrobyter, Those are excellent examples of what the fire that comes from God for the wicked. Here is one that seems to be describing it also: Isaiah 5:14-24 King James Version (KJV) 14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. 15 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled: 16 But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness. 17 Then shall the lambs feed after their manner, and the waste places of the fat ones shall strangers eat. 18 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope: 19 That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it! 20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! 22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: 23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! 24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. How do you see that text?
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