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What was wrong with being under the law?


DeighAnn

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3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:


Wouldn't it be glorious if the churches of today taught same as Paul did, by still using the Old Testament as the schoolmaster to RAISE everyone up unto the KNOWLEDGE and WISDOM of Christ and what that all entails and not as you so clearly pointed out "to bring us (up) to (the time of) Christ"?  

I think there is a severe lack of understanding, and so gratitude, in exactly what  HIS WILLING Sacrifice changed and what it means not only to our lives in this flesh now, but also our LIFE once we leave this flesh behind, knowing before when they 'died' they went to hell (penalty of sin) compared with how we NEVER DIE and have no penalty to pay ourselves.  

Can we, if we  don't understand the temple, along with the meanings of the rituals and the 'furniture' and the priestly duties and what one brought to the temple themselves, and all their individual significances... give proper thanks from the heart for that WORK of Salvation.  

What do you believe that WORK changed for those 'made a new creature' when the death of the flesh body takes place?




 

Thank for this post. 

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3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:


Wouldn't it be glorious if the churches of today taught same as Paul did, by still using the Old Testament as the schoolmaster to RAISE everyone up unto the KNOWLEDGE and WISDOM of Christ and what that all entails and not as you so clearly pointed out "to bring us (up) to (the time of) Christ"?  

I think there is a severe lack of understanding, and so gratitude, in exactly what  HIS WILLING Sacrifice changed and what it means not only to our lives in this flesh now, but also our LIFE once we leave this flesh behind, knowing before when they 'died' they went to hell (penalty of sin) compared with how we NEVER DIE and have no penalty to pay ourselves.  

Can we, if we  don't understand the temple, along with the meanings of the rituals and the 'furniture' and the priestly duties and what one brought to the temple themselves, and all their individual significances... give proper thanks from the heart for that WORK of Salvation.  

What do you believe that WORK changed for those 'made a new creature' when the death of the flesh body takes place?




 

Yes it would be glorious, and I brought this up for as many as I can reach that's the way it ought to be.  What you brought up, my friend, is what I been calling the "Gentilization" of scripture and that goes for the calendar as well.  The Jewish scriptures are spun with a Gentile twist to it and alas, oftentimes a Jesus of one's imagination. But just mention the Law once and one gets accused of being "legalistic".  So it's not about Law or lawlessness.  It's about ourselves flesh vs Spirit in order to do those things.  If someone pays the ticket price for me if I ran a stop sign, that break does not nullify the stop sign, nor is it a license to keep going thru them.  I don't understand why many people don't understand that.  And with all that said, my Shabbat alarm just dinged (lol) so I will rest now and say Shabbat Shalom! It's the day my Lord and I get away together.

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7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:


Wouldn't it be glorious if the churches of today taught same as Paul did, by still using the Old Testament as the schoolmaster to RAISE everyone up unto the KNOWLEDGE and WISDOM of Christ and what that all entails and not as you so clearly pointed out "to bring us (up) to (the time of) Christ"?  

I think there is a severe lack of understanding, and so gratitude, in exactly what  HIS WILLING Sacrifice changed and what it means not only to our lives in this flesh now, but also our LIFE once we leave this flesh behind, knowing before when they 'died' they went to hell (penalty of sin) compared with how we NEVER DIE and have no penalty to pay ourselves.  

Can we, if we  don't understand the temple, along with the meanings of the rituals and the 'furniture' and the priestly duties and what one brought to the temple themselves, and all their individual significances... give proper thanks from the heart for that WORK of Salvation.  

What do you believe that WORK changed for those 'made a new creature' when the death of the flesh body takes place?




 

Thank for your inspired questions. 

Jesus teach repeatedly the same thing that with his death all things will be changed. 

He said all things will become new. 

Things in Heaven and things on earth and things under the earth...

He also cautioned people when he said: do not take a piece of a new garment and show it on an old garment in an attempt to repair it...and on the same matter he also said: (this one I like), Do not put new wine into the old wine skins...because when the new win ferments it will tear off the old wine skins and it will spill. 

I am wondering why no one wants to talk about what Jesus said in this matter...but being around I find out that people like to mix the old with the New in a variety of ways...

Edited by Your closest friendnt
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On 8/12/2022 at 4:36 PM, tim_from_pa said:

Yes it would be glorious, and I brought this up for as many as I can reach that's the way it ought to be.  What you brought up, my friend, is what I been calling the "Gentilization" of scripture and that goes for the calendar as well.  The Jewish scriptures are spun with a Gentile twist to it and alas, oftentimes a Jesus of one's imagination. But just mention the Law once and one gets accused of being "legalistic".  So it's not about Law or lawlessness.  It's about ourselves flesh vs Spirit in order to do those things.  If someone pays the ticket price for me if I ran a stop sign, that break does not nullify the stop sign, nor is it a license to keep going thru them.  I don't understand why many people don't understand that.  And with all that said, my Shabbat alarm just dinged (lol) so I will rest now and say Shabbat Shalom! It's the day my Lord and I get away together.

Gentilization AWESOME.  Gentile and Gentle.  It is the church that dropped the ball with all of them becoming 'evangelical' and having no TEACHERS to back them up,   so NO ONE learns anything except JESUS SAVES and you don't have to worry you won't be here.  

My eyes were opened WIDE when in casual conversation with a professed Christian I mentioned the Lamb of God.  I don't remember much of anything else because she asked me what that meant. I was STUNNED.  You know, The Lamb slain? NOTHING.  It was like it was the first time she ever heard the words.  That is about all I can remember but THE FEELING has never left me. 

How many 'Christians' don't know anything but Baptism, saying I believe, and FEELING saved?   BUT isn't this what was predicted?  The end time famine is for the words of God.  

Gentilization. 

How about this one 'Works Servation' to get rid of this 'works salvation' or working to keep your salvation LIKE ANY CHRISTIAN was ever under the law to begin with. They don't even know what the dead works were.  Trying to make working for GOD into a bad thing. Drives me nuts.  

Thank you and Peace to you too
 

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On 8/12/2022 at 5:00 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

He also cautioned people when he said: do not take a piece of a new garment and show it on an old garment in an attempt to repair it...and on the same matter he also said: (this one I like), Do not put new wine into the old wine skins...because when the new win ferments it will tear off the old wine skins and it will spill. 

I have been on the internet for a few years and it has only been within the last few months that I have noticed A LOT more things like this.  You being the one 'sharing' more views I had not received before, but just seems we are at the beginning of eyes and ears being opened and people realizing that GOD is showing more in what is written than was previously seen.  OR it's just me.  God knows

I put the NEW COVENANT 'never die' into new skins BUT DIDN'T KNOW the words for it.  Another THANK YOU for sharing.  God has such a way with words and situations to help us get the meanings across.  I am seriously having to PRAY to be able to put down my Bible or the computer talking and talking about it so I can get stuff done that needs to be done with so much being opened up.   

I AGREE that there are hardly ANY who understand the difference between those who died under the law and were raised on the last day of the Old Covenant and the NEVER DIE under the new covenant who are raised on their last day.  

I have found they have no problem with THE SPIRIT going back to God

but to make the connection OF never die with

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

taking place at the time of the death of the flesh seems to JUST be too much of a leap.  DOESN'T MATTER they are given ROBES, the fellow servant has feet, they are asking questions, we are like the angels in heaven, and on and on, for some reason they all want this NASTY DECAYING BODY to be resurrected and to be a part of the DEAD.  I just don't get it.  YOU would think they would see WE DIED and were RAISED up BEFORE THE FLESH BODY DID and have been made a new creature and NEVER DIE means NEVER DESCEND because descending IS FOR THE DEAD and the DEAD ALONE.  God doesn't want us to be a part of this world now, why then would HE have us be a part of  UNDER THE EARTH along with the DEAD after.  

Sorry, preaching to the choir.  That 'last day' thing has really kept everyone UNDER THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH to this day.  Why they don't want to FOLLOW JESUS and go to the place He prepared and to stand before His JUDGMENT rather than be a part of the DEAD who have to wait 1000 years to be judged I HAVE NO IDEA.  Oh, I am stopping, right here. 

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

ONE more thing that I have been wishy washy on.  Do YOU THINK we RISE IN our spiritual body or DOES just the 'seed' rise and then GOD give us our spiritual body AFTER the Judgment seat of Christ up IN HEAVEN?   

The reason I am having trouble is because of the above and 

1Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption  'seed or body'?

1Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.


BUT there is THIS 
 

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

Thank you GOD for allowing me to be born and die under 'NEVER DIE'. 


I can't hardly WAIT to dump this flesh and I can't wait to 'see and experience' my new body.  I can't IMAGINE WHAT it is going to be like to not have any pain or anything of the flesh that can CONTROL my spirit/soul.  I CAN'T WAIT.  No wonder suicide is such a sin.  If it didn't carry such a heavy penalty everyone would do it and WE HAVE WORK TO DO.  Just saying....I have NO FEAR of death what so ever.  With a few exceptions of course but that's about pain...I digress.  



 

2Corinthians 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

2Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

2Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

2Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

2Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

SEE the problem?   Maybe we are all raised in the spiritual body and then become 
 

2 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

2 Timothy 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

and THEN RETURN WITH CHRIST IN THE ARMIES THAT WILL SIT UPON THE THRONES.  

i THINK i THE SPIRIT just worked it all out FOR ME.  PRAISE YE THE LORD.  
 

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

The PLACE HE WENT TO PREPARE FOR US, THE PLACE WE FOLLOW HIM TO.  THE MEANING OF NEVER DIE.  The place HE LED THE CAPTIVITY when he defeated death.  The meaning of the graves opened and THEY in BODIES were seen.  The DEAD who heard His voice those 3 days in hell.  The ones who were under the law set at liberty HE PAID THE RANSOM AND His blood washed them clean and HELL COULD NO LONGER HOLD THEM

CHRIST THE FIRST FRUITS OF THEM THAT SLEPT.  And ever since that day EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER.  As they live and die.  And when Christ returns the alive and remaining to be changed 'after wards those at His coming' all of those of the 1st resurrection because THE 2ND HATH NO POWER.  


And when He returns the DEAD, those who died NOT HAVING BEEN SAVED will be resurrected.  They have 1000 years to come to LIFE AKA IMMORTALITY but until that GWTJ remain SPIRITUALLY DEAD because they CANT COME THROUGH FAITH, BECAUSE THEY SEE and are IN THE KINGDOM so they have to WAIT because.....



BECAUSE they have to be TESTED.  THEY have to wait until SATAN is loosed.  And only if they DON'T FOLLOW HIM will they receive their IMMORTALITY.  They will be those resurrected who were found to be JUST.  Those who folllow afteer Satan will be those who were found to be unjust.  THAT IS THE RESURRECTION of the just and the unjust at the return of Christ,  The dead who don't get to LIVE and  receive the gift of Salvation until the end of the Lords Day those of the 2nd resurrection BECAUSE  THEY DID HAVE TO FACE THE GWTJ and some of them indeed lost all life all rights to the tree of life and the penalty for sin is death and this death isn't of just the body but of the BODY AND THE SOUL and NEVER ever ever again will they ever rise up because they are DEATH,  the eternal punishement.  

 

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


THANK GOD THIS IS MY THREAD.  Thank you Lord.  


There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


I am leaving that alone.  Not going back to read until I hit submit reply.  AFTER that I will go back and correct it and all the mistakes.  

Any thoughts you might have I would like to hear.  Just curious as to how different it is from your current beliefs and why.  BUT as for me I REALLY think the WINE SKIN opened up what I may have been closed to for one reason or another but that felt good.  Again, thank you LORD.  Thank you too!

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On 7/14/2022 at 12:58 PM, DeighAnn said:

What was wrong with being under the law? Why weren't we just given the Holy Spirit to help us follow the law perfectly?  Besides the rituals (blood sacrifice), temple and priests being all wrapped up in Christ, what else changed?  

 

Hi D, this is your OP and you are beginning your post with the statement."What was wrong for being under the Law ". 

This statement cannot technically be made by Gentiles because they were never under the Law, or the Law was never given to them. It cannot be given to them to begin with. 

It was given to the clean and chosen seed of Abraham. From Abraham to Issac and to Jacob...

They must be the  chosen children of the Patriarch Abraham...Abraham must be their Patriarch...

This is why the Lord God Almighty said to Moses. I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...

He did not include Ismael and the other children he had with his other wife after Sarah's death. And he did not mention Esau the tween brother of Jacob the first born to Issac....

This is why, from Abraham he chosen Issac, born to him from Sarah...their only Son...their only child.

And from the tweens of Issac he had chosen Jacob...and gave Jacob a special blessing and he epitomized that by changing his name to Israel, that's why Jesus Christ is call Israel, because as in the case of Jacob-Israel all his children received the blessing, all were included and none were excluded as it was with Abraham's children and with Esau the tween brother of Jacob, the children of Issac..

And the same is with Jesus, in Him all the people of the world are included and none is excluded...

In Abraham only his chosen seed was included and the rest of his children with Esau from Issac AND THE REST OF THE WORLD WERE EXCLUDED. 

And why the Lord did not mentioned the twelve Patriarch, the twelve children of Jacob and their children's children who had died by the time he said that to Moses...

God set apart Abraham from the rest of the world and his chosen seed after him by being their God, because that it was made possible because he had cleansed the seed of Abraham...

And he gave them imputed Inheritance in Abraham with the Covenant of Circumcision.  

What happened with Abraham is this, God also set him apart from the rest of the world after his death.

Abraham still descend at the time of his death in a place separated from the rest of the dead from the world...this was the Inheritance of Abraham and his chosen seed...

The first one to died was Abraham and then in his time Issac Joint him and then Jacob....because with Jacob everyone of his children was included...God had to mentioned that in Abraham his chosen children are gathered to him...Abraham and his children were alive to God and continue to be alive to him after their death...

God he continue to be their God after they died even though they were not gathered to him and they were gathered to Abraham...their Patriarch...

That's where Jesus Christ went at the time of his death, first he went to Abraham and to his descendants who had been gathered to him and who were together with him. JESUS went them first to give them Life 

..THE FIRST FRUITS of the Harvest of Jesus Christ...the first ones to be heirs of Heaven together with Jesus Christ...

That's why Jesus Christ said: all that the Father has he has given them to me...THE FIRST ONES,THE FIRST ONES. 

This is said only for them the First fruits those who had died and were gathered to Abraham...

It cannot be said for the rest of the dead of the world who had died before Jesus because they were not the children of the Father the Lord God the Creator...from Abraham's chosen seed.

They were the children of the world, rejected by God, as they were unclean they could not be included in God's family not matter what. 

Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world and he also preached the Gospel to all of them in the place of the dead and all those who believe in him were included in the family of the Heavenly Father in Jesus Christ...so the Heavenly Father has children only in Jesus Christ....

That's why Jesus comission his disciples to preach the Gospel only to the living in all the earth because they will never go or descend to the place of the dead as he was when they die. Because anyone who believes in Jesus Christ is gathered to him, to Jesus Christ, to where Jesus is...our bodies are left behind and our Spirits, our spiritual self who was living in our body is going to be with Jesus Christ, but first he is going to kneel before Jesus Christ...every knee shall bow down to him...and we are of the people who believe in him, we have nothing to fear at that moment, and if some do not understand that, it does not matter, because Jesus Christ knows who has believed in him and found with the faith in him at the time time of their death.  

It does not matter about this or that...Jesus has it all figured it out. 

Edited by Your closest friendnt
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12 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is said only for them the First fruits those who had died and were gathered to Abraham...

It cannot be said for the rest of the dead of the world who had died before Jesus because they were not the children of the Father the Lord God the Creator...from Abraham's chosen seed.

I agree, the 'first fruits were of them that slept'  OT
'every man in his own order'  NT
'at His coming' Alive and Remaining
then the end GWTJ dead found in book of life

I may have used the word First fruits when I meant of First resurrection.  

Not sure why  you wrote any of the rest though, but thank you

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7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I agree, the 'first fruits were of them that slept'  OT
'every man in his own order'  NT
'at His coming' Alive and Remaining
then the end GWTJ dead found in book of life

I may have used the word First fruits when I meant of First resurrection.  

Not sure why  you wrote any of the rest though, but thank you

I am not picking on you,  but I see that you have an interest to know a lot of things other believers they for some reasons they are not comfortable to even enter in a discussion they just do not have any interest...

They are not just you or me who have invested a lot of their time and not only in reading, researching and studying and they have spent a lot of time thinking and seeking and they do that because they are not alone, knowing that Jesus who knows what they long to know will help them in their quest...

This is something that comes against the flow of the mainstream religious teachings...

Why did I wrote about what Jesus said about putting the New wine in New wine skins...

Because this take us back to Abraham when the Lord God did not just take a man out of the people who looked to him, and believe in him and wanted to have his blessing in their life and stay away from the Idols, who knew about their bloodline and about or most of the works of the Lord God going back to the Flood and beyond that knowing that the Lord was the Creator of all and man. 

God took Abram out of this world and made a New Man...

He Made the New Man the Patriarch Abraham, when he had not yet any children and he had grown very old waiting for the Lord to bless him with a heir...The point is that he would rather be childless him and his wife than to turned to Idols and seek from the Idols to bless them with a heir...

Abraham believe something and he must have known that if the Lord closes a womb as it was turned to be in the case of Sarah, no Idol could make Sarah fertile, and it was not only him, it was also about Sarah, she also refused to turned to Idols for their blessing in her situation...

****I am answering your question in your OP.

" What was wrong for being under the Law? Why weren't we just given the Holy Spirit to help us follow the Law perfectly."

That's what I am doing I shaw cause why this could not be done, till God in Jesus Christ made the New Man on earth...(the New wine skins) in the parable of Jesus Christ. 

Because we come to understand that in the old testament we can find the shadow of what is yet to come, so it is the same with the New Man on earth God made with the death of Jesus Christ...not the New Man the believer in Jesus Christ...But the New Man in the world as in the whole world altogether. 

That includes everyone from the first man Adam and forwards till the death of Jesus Christ...

From Adam forwards till the death of Jesus Christ all mankind was under the course of Adam...death pass on to them because of Adam's disobedience, all mankind inherited death from Adam without exception.

When God cleaned the seed of Abraham and he set him apart from the world and he imputed righteousness unto him, as in Genesis 15:7, and then he gave him the Covenant of Circumcision and eventually he gave them the Law and the Covenant of Sinai...The Lord God did not remove the inherited death from Adam from them..

The whole world was under the inherited death from Adam even Abraham and his  chosen children, even Jacob and everyone born to him with the exception of a few...which God gave them Life before they died, and he could take them to Heaven. 

Elisha was one of them, only he was taken to Heaven via a special trasportaion, emphasizing that he was not ascended in Heaven the way Jesus Christ was ascended in Heaven witnessed by a few hundred people and the disciples of Jesus...

The Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost or the Paracletous could not be given to the children of the Law because they were still in the inherited death from Adam...

And this is what God did for the whole world at the time of Jesus Christ death, when death was defeated with Jesus Christ death on the Cross, because Jesus died on the Cross in full obedience to God. 

"There is no more sea".

Jesus Christ said in Revelation, in one of the first chapters, "I have the Keys of Death and Hades". 

This is why everyone in the world will be Judged according to their faith in Jesus Christ...and their works also, but the works of man follow him, the faith of man in Jesus Christ is infront of him and his works behind him.  

This is why Jesus said that God has to make New wine skins to put the New wine...Jesus in saying that he was telling the Jews that the promises made to the Messiah cannot be inherited by the man under the Law, because the man under the Law was still in the inherited death of Adam....

The Holy Spirit was not given to the believers only, the Holy Spirit was given to the world because the world is not in the inherited death from Adam anymore, it cannot be because Adam is in the Life of God in Jesus Christ...

Death has been removed from him when Jesus Christ gave him Life when he met him at the place of the dead...

The Holy Spirit is ahead and it was ahead from the disciples before they went to any place to preach the Gospel, preparing the people to long for what the Gospel offers, the Good News of the Gospel...

This is what Jesus said to Peter when he sent him to Cornelius family, they are ready, they are cultivated ground and they are thirsty for the word of the Good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 

To Paul he said. There is a man ready in Macedonian, very respective and thirsty to hear the Gospel, which the Holy Spirit had prepared him and made him ready...for the Gospel to be preached to him...

When Paul was about to live the city of Corinthos, disappointed because he could not establish a following...Jesus told him, do not live because he has many people in this city who need to hear the Gospel, the Holy Spirit was working on the people in the city of Corinth, and on people who had not heard the Gospel yet because death was not upon them, they were in a neutral state and he could work with them...

They were a people ready to heard the Gospel and believe. 

To be in death they had to die with the refusal to believe in Jesus Christ, because as long as they yet live Jesus Christ is calling them to believe in him, no one is a right off because he does not believe at first...most of the people do not believe at first..they believe at some time later on...

Also in the Baptism of Jesus the Holy Spirit from God the Heavenly Father fell only, or recognize that Jesus was in the Life of God or that only Jesus was not in the inherited death from Adam, and fell upon him, and not upon John who was standing next to him, because he was in the death Inheritance of Adam...

Amen!

Edited by Your closest friendnt
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