How Do We See Our Fellow Man?

[Dan Knight]

18 hours ago, Starise said:

This would seem to say the enemy ain't 'us'. I believe scripture backs this idea up that we primarily fight against principalities and powers of darkness in high places- 

Eph. 6. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

With this though comes the idea that the evil one often works through the people he uses. 

Recently I seen a short video from John MacArthur about one of his very few encounters with demons. He received a call from one of his pastor bothers in Christ about a girl who was attending his services. This girl had become violent throwing things around in the room. His friend, who was a wrestler, was having a hard time getting her to settle down ( demons have super human strength). This girl was talking in voices that didn't sound like herself.

John says him and his friend tried tried every "casting out" prayer they knew and none of it had ANY effect on this demon possessed girl. The ONLY thing that had an effect was when John took her aside and got through to her enough to ask her if she had asked Jesus into her heart. AS SOON as she accepted Christ, everything went calm and she hasn't had any events since then.

Here is the link to that video-

https://youtu.be/oTgRGLu66mc

 

Satan refered to as  eph 2:2"...the prince of the power of the air" that influences the carnal mind. Satan has decieved all of mankind. Rev 12:9.

  I don't believe that a person must be possessed to be influenced by devils. 

Matt 16:21-23 Peter tried to rebuke Jesus because He told them of the sufferings He was to go through.  Jesus response was "..get behind me Satan ..." I see no indication that Peter was possessed. But because of his carnal mind he was being influenced by Satan. 

[Starise]

2 hours ago, Dan Knight said:

Satan refered to as  eph 2:2"...the prince of the power of the air" that influences the carnal mind. Satan has decieved all of mankind. Rev 12:9.

  I don't believe that a person must be possessed to be influenced by devils. 

Matt 16:21-23 Peter tried to rebuke Jesus because He told them of the sufferings He was to go through.  Jesus response was "..get behind me Satan ..." I see no indication that Peter was possessed. But because of his carnal mind he was being influenced by Satan. 

I was admittedly showing an extreme, although it may well not be as uncommon as some seem to think it is.

Yes, the entire unsaved world is blinded by the things of the world, and even some Christian allow themselves to be captivated by the wrong things.

I have to imagine in the evil play book, there is a primary directive to distract, captivate and absorb.

1 John 2:15-17. 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

Lot would be a good example of someone who strayed too close to the world.

What do all the unsaved seek after? Status, wealth, often taken with immorality. They might look at someone and think he has really done well for himself, when inside he is miserable, lacking anything good and going straight to hell.

I agree the world system is geared towards roping in the most souls for hell it can gather. Many of these people are not directly possessed. HOWEVER as our culture gets further and further away from God, they often run to the Devil for a substitute.

If you go to the devil's playground you are bound to pick up demons.

[Dan Knight]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

I was admittedly showing an extreme, although it may well not be as uncommon as some seem to think it is.

Yes, the entire unsaved world is blinded by the things of the world, and even some Christian allow themselves to be captivated by the wrong things.

I have to imagine in the evil play book, there is a primary directive to distract, captivate and absorb.

1 John 2:15-17. 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world.

Lot would be a good example of someone who strayed too close to the world.

What do all the unsaved seek after? Status, wealth, often taken with immorality. They might look at someone and think he has really done well for himself, when inside he is miserable, lacking anything good and going straight to hell.

I agree the world system is geared towards roping in the most souls for hell it can gather. Many of these people are not directly possessed. HOWEVER as our culture gets further and further away from God, they often run to the Devil for a substitute.

If you go to the devil's playground you are bound to pick up demons.

Agreed. Many stray further from God and into the devils traps, most I think , unwittingly.  If  certainly hope that's the case. It's what makes our Christian Duty so important.  To proclaim,  witness,  to the world the good news of the Kingdom of God. The Father considers us so important that He gave His only begotten Son that we might be saved. We should consider as He does. 

[JohnR7]

On 7/22/2022 at 2:50 PM, Starise said:

Do you see your fellow man as only a Christian brother, or do you see everyone as a potential Christian brother or sister?

God puts His love in us for people. We do love some more then others. We should want to help them to be the people God created them to be. Esp we should not hinder or be a bad example to them. 

[Starise]

In hindsight I should not have used the word "only" because no brother or sister in Christ is seen as unimportant in God's eyes, and therefore should not be seen this way in my eyes.

I see all men and woman as persons who God wants to draw near to, to save from their sins.

In what ways do you see us hindering non Christians?

[Dan Knight]

39 minutes ago, Starise said:

In hindsight I should not have used the word "only" because no brother or sister in Christ is seen as unimportant in God's eyes, and therefore should not be seen this way in my eyes.

I see all men and woman as persons who God wants to draw near to, to save from their sins.

In what ways do you see us hindering non Christians?

 

1 Corinthians 3:6-9 (King James Version)

 

⁶ I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

⁷ So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

⁸ Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

⁹ For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

deviating from this verse can cause issues. I can vouch for that. Knowing my place in the scheme of things is one thing, sticking to it can be another.  Impatience comes to mind. I know that if I plant a corn seed this morning I'm not going to be eating off of it at noon the same day.

God gives us the analogy of planting and harvesting for a purpose.  Patience is certainly important.  Impatience can lead to multi-tasking on a fellow human, which means I not only plant, I water also. Real problems occur when I try to give the increase. 

 At this point I preform a root cause analysis and always find ego at the core. Ego.

[Starise]

57 minutes ago, Dan Knight said:

 

1 Corinthians 3:6-9 (King James Version)

 

⁶ I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

⁷ So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

⁸ Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

⁹ For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

deviating from this verse can cause issues. I can vouch for that. Knowing my place in the scheme of things is one thing, sticking to it can be another.  Impatience comes to mind. I know that if I plant a corn seed this morning I'm not going to be eating off of it at noon the same day.

God gives us the analogy of planting and harvesting for a purpose.  Patience is certainly important.  Impatience can lead to multi-tasking on a fellow human, which means I not only plant, I water also. Real problems occur when I try to give the increase. 

 At this point I preform a root cause analysis and always find ego at the core. Ego.

This would more than suggest the person who is coming to Christ has multiple streams where God comes at them.

As you mentioned , ego or wanting to be the person who "saves" people instead of letting God do it His way can be a problem. I have heard some pastors make statements to the effect we should all be "soul winners". 

I look at it more like we should all be weather vanes pointing to where the wind comes from. 

I remember some testimonies where those who were saved had multiple confirmation from sources that in no way knew one another.I seen this as a confirmation God was at work in them through various people and sources.

Who was Apollos? 

He was a contemporary and colleague of Paul. Also a Jewish preacher reaching out to Gentiles and communicating to them about Jesus.

There was an apparent schism in the church of that area. More about that here-

Wikipedia C/P

1 Corinthians[edit]

Paul's First Epistle to the Corinthians (AD 55) mentions Apollos as an important figure at Corinth. Paul describes Apollos' role at Corinth:

I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth.[8]

Paul's Epistle refers to a schism between four parties in the Corinthian church, of which two attached themselves to Paul and Apollos respectively, using their names[9] (the third and fourth were Peter, identified as Cephas, and Jesus Christ himself).[10] It is possible, though, that, as Msgr. Ronald Knox suggests, the parties were actually two, one claiming to follow Paul, the other claiming to follow Apollos. "It is surely probable that the adherents of St. Paul [...] alleged in defence of his orthodoxy the fact that he was in full agreement with, and in some sense commissioned by, the Apostolic College. Hence 'I am for Cephas'. [...] What reply was the faction of Apollos to make? It devised an expedient which has been imitated by sectaries more than once in later times; appealed behind the Apostolic College itself to him from whom the Apostolic College derived its dignity; 'I am for Christ'."[11] Paul states that the schism arose because of the Corinthians' immaturity in faith.[12]

Apollos was a devout Jew born in Alexandria. Apollos' origin in Alexandria has led to speculations that he would have preached in the allegorical style of Philo. Theologian Jerome Murphy-O'Connor, for example, commented: "It is difficult to imagine that an Alexandrian Jew ... could have escaped the influence of Philo, the great intellectual leader ... particularly since the latter seems to have been especially concerned with education and preaching."[13]

There is no indication that Apollos favored or approved an overestimation of his person. Paul urged him to go to Corinth at the time, but Apollos declined, stating that he would come later when he had an opportunity.[14]

In my view, This was Paul making it clear they are on the same team with the same goals.Paul was giving all the glory to God for any 'fruit' that came from it.

Even though this seems to pertain to an entire assembly of people, I believe the lessons are there that show we all only play a very small part in what God does and only God does it through us.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Starise

[Dan Knight]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

This would more than suggest the person who is coming to Christ has multiple streams where God comes at them.

As you mentioned , ego or wanting to be the person who "saves" people instead of letting God do it His way can be a problem. I have heard some pastors make statements to the effect we should all be "soul winners". 

I look at it more like we should all be weather vanes pointing to where the wind comes from. 

I remember some testimonies where those who were saved had multiple confirmation from sources that in no way knew one another.I seen this as a confirmation God was at work in them through various people and sources.

Who was Apollos? 

He was a contemporary and colleague of Paul. Also a Jewish preacher reaching out to Gentiles and communicating to them about Jesus.

There was an apparent schism in the church of that area. More about that here-

Wikipedia C/P

1 Corinthians[edit]

Paul's First Epistle to the Corinthians (AD 55) mentions Apollos as an important figure at Corinth. Paul describes Apollos' role at Corinth:

I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth.[8]

Paul's Epistle refers to a schism between four parties in the Corinthian church, of which two attached themselves to Paul and Apollos respectively, using their names[9] (the third and fourth were Peter, identified as Cephas, and Jesus Christ himself).[10] It is possible, though, that, as Msgr. Ronald Knox suggests, the parties were actually two, one claiming to follow Paul, the other claiming to follow Apollos. "It is surely probable that the adherents of St. Paul [...] alleged in defence of his orthodoxy the fact that he was in full agreement with, and in some sense commissioned by, the Apostolic College. Hence 'I am for Cephas'. [...] What reply was the faction of Apollos to make? It devised an expedient which has been imitated by sectaries more than once in later times; appealed behind the Apostolic College itself to him from whom the Apostolic College derived its dignity; 'I am for Christ'."[11] Paul states that the schism arose because of the Corinthians' immaturity in faith.[12]

Apollos was a devout Jew born in Alexandria. Apollos' origin in Alexandria has led to speculations that he would have preached in the allegorical style of Philo. Theologian Jerome Murphy-O'Connor, for example, commented: "It is difficult to imagine that an Alexandrian Jew ... could have escaped the influence of Philo, the great intellectual leader ... particularly since the latter seems to have been especially concerned with education and preaching."[13]

There is no indication that Apollos favored or approved an overestimation of his person. Paul urged him to go to Corinth at the time, but Apollos declined, stating that he would come later when he had an opportunity.[14]

In my view, This was Paul making it clear they are on the same team with the same goals.Paul was giving all the glory to God for any 'fruit' that came from it.

Even though this seems to pertain to an entire assembly of people, I believe the lessons are there that show we all only play a very small part in what God does and only God does it through us.

Some years back I was speaking with a friend who blurted out, "You Christians think you are better than everyone else ". I paused for a min and responded," No, not better than anyone, but certainly better off than non Christians.".  (I'm speaking in terms of Eternity. )

the point of that is that it seemed important that I have God search out the deep places of my heart and reveal those things that are undesirable,  that I may confess them to Him, and be willfully cleansed. So I might be a better servant of God. 

[Dan Knight]

2 hours ago, Dan Knight said:

Some years back I was speaking with a friend who blurted out, "You Christians think you are better than everyone else ". I paused for a min and responded," No, not better than anyone, but certainly better off than non Christians.".  (I'm speaking in terms of Eternity. )

the point of that is that it seemed important that I have God search out the deep places of my heart and reveal those things that are undesirable,  that I may confess them to Him, and be willfully cleansed. So I might be a better servant of God. 

 

Starise said, "This would more than suggest the person who is coming to Christ has multiple streams where God comes at them".

yes. Perfectly said.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Dan Knight

[Dan Knight]

On 7/23/2022 at 10:20 AM, debrakay said:

I have been struggling with this and seeking clarity.  Not all can or will be saved.  Do we "cast our pearls before swine" or do we "wipe the dust from our feet" and seek out those who are willing to hear and listen?  Yes, we are to show love and kindness to all and to walk humbly in this world.  Yet not everyone is worthy of our love, our time and our prayers and I believe the Holy Spirit will reveal to us and help us discern those who are not blind and hardened.  Especially in this day and age of wickedness.  We are to be wise in this evil world.

John 12:40 - He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.

Isaiah 6:9-12 - And He said, “Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’ “Make the heart of this people dull, And their ears heavy, And shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And return and be healed.” Then I said, “Lord, how long?” And He answered: “Until the cities are laid waste and without inhabitant, The houses are without a man, The land is utterly desolate, The Lord has removed men far away, And the forsaken places are many in the midst of the land."

Matthew 10:16 - “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves."

 

Matt 7:15-20  "You shall know them by their fruits.."